Amex debt catches up - SCOTTISH LAW APPLIES

[clarrabell]

Hi I had a gold amex charge card back in 2006 and to cut a long story short - split up with my boyfriend, got into debt and stopped paying amex. Balance due was about grand and a half.

 

Moved house but told nobody and tried to start fresh - got a basic bank account and after 6 months got a small overdraft. This led to a mobile phone contract and before i knew it I was able to get credit again.

 

Then one day a letter dropped through the door from amex demanding the money from my last address. I ignored it and eventuallly a decree/ccj was issued at the new address.

 

So then I closed all the new accounts at the new address ( all balances paid in full this time) and moved house again.

 

I done the same again - started with a basic account and worked up but amex have caught up again. They are now threatening to enforce the decree. I have claimed that this is not my debt and that I had never lived at the original address - my credit reports show this and they also don't show the decree as it was at the second address.

 

The situation at the moment is that I have recalled the decree to prevent the charge order being enforced. I am still claiming that this is not my debt. I asked for proof and all they sent me was the original signed application form . I asked if they could provide the 2 forms of ID from the application but they said they do not have this. ( I don't know if this is true or not)

 

My question is can amex really win in court if all they have is an application form? Surely this is not proof that I opened the account?

 

I know I have been a very dishonest person and I am not proud. But I just started to get on my feet again and this would be a definite blow as they now want over 3 and a half thousand because of all the interest and charges.

[rebel11]

Hi Clarra

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

 

What you need to do is have a read of (1) (2) (3) (4) and (5) in my signature.

 

Send a SAR Request to get all the statements. You can claim back all the charges and compound interest over the last 6 years.

 

Use this spreadsheet:- http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/interestcalcs.xls

 

You've got a Legitimate Dispute.

[clarrabell]

Hey everyone I forgot to mention that I had moved out of address number 2 before the decree was even registered at that address - so I genuinely didn't receive it.

[ims21]

Hi

 

You mention a decree....Are you in Scotland?

 

You also mention the year 2006. When was the last time you made any payment or acknowledgement of this debt/account.

 

I think that if you have not acknowledged or made a payment on the account for a clear 5 years in Scotland, it is Statute Barred.

 

ims

[clarrabell]

Yes I am in Scotland. Amex have BTO solicitors involved.

 

I do not have a statement of accounts so I don't know when the last payment was made. But if i ask for a statement of account is that me admitting that the debt is mine?

[ims21]

Hi

 

While I don't condone debt evasion, you do have a legit claim for a refund of charges on the account. They may well add up to a bit and would put a dent in the amount you owe especially when you add interest to them at the rate Amex charged you.

 

The only way to get those statements and subsequently find the quantum of the charges is to SAR Amex. This is purley a request for information and will include a copy of the agreement if they have it.

 

I don't believe that a SAR request is an ackowledgement of the debt. You could, I suppose, start your SAR letter with the line that you do not ackowledge any debt to them. You are seeking information to establish what has happened on this account. DO NOT USE THE WORDS "MY ACCOUNT" in your SAR letter. Keep it simple and say that you require all details and information they hold on you in connection with any dealings you have had with them. Just don't put anything in the letter that admits the account.

 

Others will advise if they think differently.

 

ims

[jdes26]

No

your requesting account data

then this will clarify what they have

ie

1. Agreement

2 default notice

3. Termination notice

3 notice of assignment

4. Ppi charges

interest etc !!!

[clarrabell]

Hi

 

While I don't condone debt evasion, you do have a legit claim for a refund of charges on the account. They may well add up to a bit and would put a dent in the amount you owe especially when you add interest to them at the rate Amex charged you.

 

The only way to get those statements and subsequently find the quantum of the charges is to SAR Amex. This is purley a request for information and will include a copy of the agreement if they have it.

 

I don't believe that a SAR request is an ackowledgement of the debt. You could, I suppose, start your SAR letter with the line that you do not ackowledge any debt to them. You are seeking information to establish what has happened on this account. DO NOT USE THE WORDS "MY ACCOUNT" in your SAR letter. Keep it simple and say that you require all details and information they hold on you in connection with any dealings you have had with them. Just don't put anything in the letter that admits the account.

 

Others will advise if they think differently.

 

ims

 

So do you think the best option would be to own up then? The only problem with that is that when I put in the form to recall the decree- I put down "never had an Amex account" as the reason for my defence. will the judge not just Think I'm a liar?

[ims21]

Hi

 

Well I didn't know you put in your defence through a court of law that you never had an Amex Account!

 

That does put a rather different complexion on the matter wouldn't you say?

 

There will be some of the guys better versed in Scottish Law looking in so lets see what they advise.

 

ims

[clarrabell]

Here is what I ave decided to do. Any pointers or advice or anything you think that might need changed - please do comment!

 

1) Obtain SAR from American Express

2) Obtain all correspondence from Amex Solicitors (as most of it was sent to the address I had already moved out of, including the court papers)

3)Write a letter to Amex solicitors to confirm that the debt is indeed mine (and make an excuse as to why I didn't recognise the debt before)

4)At the hearing tell the judge I did not receive the court papers (I can prove the address I was living at was different to the address they were sent to)

 

That's pretty much the plan. By the way is the 1st hearing to decide whether the decree should actually be recalled or not? Or does it mean that it has already been recalled and that it is time to provide evidence etc?

 

Basically all I want is for the decree to be recalled on the grounds that I did not receive the court papers so that I may have the opportunity to pay the original amount as it is approx half of what they want now because of interest and charges!!

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that if you genuinely did not receive the papers then the judge will recall it and you then have the original 28 days to clear the full balance and thus avoiding the decree/ccj - I hope it's the case in Scotland!!

 

Cheers everyone

[ims21]

Hi clarrabell

 

I've alerted the site team of this post to see if a "Scottish Expert" can drop by and give you some advice

 

Regards

 

ims

[clarrabell]

Thank You!!

[citizenB]

I have amended the title to show that this is in Scotland

[bluedogx]

Hi

 

The first hearing is to decide on the recall. You must be there. If successful, it will be as if the decree had never been granted and you will be able to negotiate payments. Your local CAB should be able to help you with all of this, and most courts have an in court adviser who you should find before the hearing.

 

B

[clarrabell]

Hi

 

The first hearing is to decide on the recall. You must be there. If successful, it will be as if the decree had never been granted and you will be able to negotiate payments. Your local CAB should be able to help you with all of this, and most courts have an in court adviser who you should find before the hearing.

 

B

 

Thank you. I have arranged to meet with a solicitor next week to get some advice.

 

So if I were successful in getting the decree recalled would I then only have to pay the original decree amount within 28 days or would I still be responsible for the interest that has accrued ( 8% granted by the court from the date of the decree) as this has more than doubled the original amount.

[bluedogx]

Do you really need a solicitor? CAB does it free. Plus the in court advice service?

 

I'm not too sure about the interest tbh

 

B

[clarrabell]

I'm just so worried about court. AMEX are obviously going to make this as difficult as possible.

 

The thoughts running through my head at the moment are- what if amex contest the recall? If I don't get the recall then I will almost certainly be paying the ridiculous amounts of interest.

 

What if the recall is granted but then the judge then decides that the full amount should be paid? Do I then have to argue over the charges?

 

I thought of a solicitor because I thought he/she may be able to broker a better deal than I ever could in court!!

[bluedogx]

Don't worry too much about Amex. They will probably use a local solicitor as their agent who are rarely fully informed! The sheriffs have a field day with them!

 

You can start reclaiming unfair charges PPI etc.

 

Please phone your local court and ask to speak to the in court advice service. If there isn't one then your solicitor although this will cost you.

[clarrabell]

Don't worry too much about Amex. They will probably use a local solicitor as their agent who are rarely fully informed! The sheriffs have a field day with them!

 

You can start reclaiming unfair charges PPI etc.

 

Please phone your local court and ask to speak to the in court advice service. If there isn't one then your solicitor although this will cost you.

 

That's providing the sheriff doesn't decide to toy with me instead!!

 

Thank you for the reassurance but if you don't mind me asking how do you know all of this- are you in this line of work?

[bluedogx]

Yes I am a money adviser

 

B

[clarrabell]

Got the court date - mid June, a lot quicker than I expected. I don't expect to have the SAR back from AMEX in time. Will this matter?

[clarrabell]

Also forgot to mention that amex phoned to say that although they had received the court papers they are still determined that the full balance should be paid.

[citizenB]

What information did you require from the Subject Access Request ?

 

I dont know how the courts work in Scotland, will they adjourn if you dont have information required in order to fully defend yourself ?

[maroondevo52]

Hi, clarrabel.

 

I'm not sure what the point was trying to recall the Decree saying you had know knowledge of this debt, surely you had been paying Amex from the address you aquired the account and they know this.

[clarrabell]

Hi, clarrabel.

 

I'm not sure what the point was trying to recall the Decree saying you had know knowledge of this debt, surely you had been paying Amex from the address you aquired the account and they know this.

 

I was trying to recall the decree because there was a charge for payment of money approved by the court and would have been enforcable within 14 days had I not taken action. As I said before the court papers for the decree were sent to an address that I had moved out of 11 months previously so I did not have the opportunity to pay the full amount within 28 days. Which I most certainly would have done.