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    • Well done...just a slight tweak on your point 3 re default notice.....you will note that the claimant has been particular careful not to state the actual words Default Notice within its pleadings....so I have redrafted your point to bring it back into the claim.   Andy
    • Ok, defence is due by this Friday, so here's my first draft (cobbled together from others I have read here on the forum). Please can someone check it over and amend where necessary? Many thanks.   Particulars of Claim for reference only   1.The Defendant entered into a Consumer Credit Act 1974 regulated agreement with Vanquis under account reference XXXX 2. The Defendant failed to maintain the required payments and arrears began to accrue 3. The Agreement was later assigned to the Claimant on 23/09/2019 and notice given to the Defendant 4. Despite repeated requests for payment the sum of £620 remains due and outstanding.   And the Claimant claims a)      The said sum of £620 b)     Interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £0.136, but limited to one year, being £50 c)      Costs   Defence   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 1. The Claimant has not fully complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. Paragraph 1 is accepted in as much as I have in the past had financial dealings with Vanquis. However I do not recall the precise details of the alleged agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a CCA1974 section 78 request. I am unaware of what account or contract the claimant refers to.   3. Paragraph 2 of the claim is noted although I am unaware of any Notice of Sums in Arrears or actual Default Notice being served pursuant to sec87(1) of the CCA1974 by the original creditor.Therefore the assignee claimant is put to strict proof to evidence same.   4. Paragraph 3 of the claim is denied I am unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served in September 2019.   5. The defendant submitted a request for documents pursuant to CPR 31.14. on 9 November 2020. The claimant acknowledged receipt of the request but has failed to comply.   6. The defendant submitted a request for a copy of the alleged agreement pursuant to s78 CCA 1974 on 9 November 2020. The claimant has not acknowledged receipt of the request and has failed to comply.   7. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with Vanquis; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87 (1) CCA1974, (c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   9. In the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • CPR is merely a request, they don't have to comply.  However, if this gets to Witness Statement stage they will certainly have to show their cards at that point.   Yes, please redact & upload the other two letters.  We're particularly interested to see if they sent him a formal Letter Before Action or not.   Also please post up what he wrote to them.  In your first post you hint he admitted part of the sum. 
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East Anglia or North London - your meter readings may be reversed

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I work as a meter reader for Southern and cover the majority of Norfolk (exluding the Kings Lynn/Fens area and the south west of the county) and some of North Suffolk.


I would urge all people that live in the Eastern area and are supplied by Southern (or Atlantic, Marks & Spencer, or Ebico) and have a day and night meter to check whether their readings are billed the wrong way round or not. Please note the Eastern area covers Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire, a small part of Buckinghamshire (I believe) and much of North (and North West) London.


The problem stems as follows:


Traditionally in the Eastern area rate 2 is the day rate and rate 1 is the night rate. (some day and night meters display only rate 1 and 2 on the digital display, rather than quoting normal and low). Now, Southern (being originally based in the South of England and parts of Scotland) traditionally do things the other way round: they term rate 1 as being the day rate and rate 2 as being the night rate.


If your day and night meter was fitted by Siemens (or some other contractor they have used) then rate 2 will be the day rate and rate 1 the night rate. There should be a card placed behind the meter if this is the case.


However, Southern started changing their own meters in the Eastern area at some point during 2010 (I don't know when exactly unfortunately). If your day and night meter was changed (or you moved from a single rate meter to a day and night meter) during 2010 or 2011 I would urge you all to check your bills. This is because Southern use rate 1 as being the day rate and rate 2 as being the night rate in the Eastern area.

If Southern have changed the meter, there should be a sticker placed on the meter board (ie: the wooden board on which the meter is attached), rather than a card placed behind the meter. THIS MEANS THAT RATE 1 IS THE DAY AND RATE 2 IS THE NIGHT.


Unfortunately, meter readers are not informed of the past readings on our handheld machines so unless we see the meter in front of our eyes (and even then this is not failproof) we cannot be sure which is the day and which is the night rate. If you leave a card out for the meter reader, you need to know which is the day and which is the night rate - otherwise you run the risk of being grossly over (or under) charged. Please bear the above in mind.



I anticipate that a lot of Southern customers that are on the day and night tariff, and live in the Eastern metering area, will encounter problems with their bills in future. They are quite likely to have their readings transposed.


This may also apply to other areas of the country too. However, I believe most other areas class rate 1 as the day rate ands rate 2 as tge night rate. Unfortunately, the Eastern area traditiionally does it the other way round. Norfolk has a saying of "we do things different". Well, it doesn't really help here!


In conclusion, what rate 1 and 2 stand for on your meter will be detrmined by who has fitted the meter. Please be aware of this and prevent future problems!



Site moderators - would it be possible to put this post on as a sticky on the site? I think this would be very useful!

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Thanks for this. Are you using your real name? I don't think that the companies would be too pleased about this - even if it is true

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Also, amzingly, I am sure that we had someone complaining exactly about this problam a few days ago.

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Also, amzingly, I am sure that we had someone complaining exactly about this problam a few days ago.


BF, is this the one you are thinking of.




Have popped a link to this revalation on the above thread :)

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Yes, it is my real name. There are only four other meter readers employed by Southern covering the same geographical area as me.

I was thinking that the thread would be useful to Southern as well as myself (I have brought it up to my manager at work) as it will mean hopefully that some customers are able to understand why they may be getting excessively high bills at an at an early stage - thus making it easier for Southern to resolve the issue when the customer contacts them.

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I've sent you a pm and also an email

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Reading this posting about Atlantic faulty billing reminded me of a slightly different experience regarding the actual (faulty) computation of the figurework on their bills when there was no confusion about the actual meter reading or number of units used.


Please see my separate post below headed "Atlantic gas & electric possible faulty billings software (not re night & day)"

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I had this problem with EON. Some years ago, they decided that the meters were the wrong way round and switched them over without doing a physical check. Then two years ago (2009) they swapped the meters back AND back billed me for the whole period (not allowed by their code of practice). While checking the meters I noticed that meters were very old (certified March 1986) and hence probably being used well past their legal life (typically 10 years)


I complained to the Energy Ombudsman pointing out that I felt that when meters are transposed this should not be done without a physical check and that I was concerned that the meters were being used past their certified life.


Re the transposition with out a physical check, the Energy Ombudsman felt that EON "could do this".


Re the age of the meters, initially I was told that EON's records showed that the meters were replaced May 1998. When I challenged this the replacement date changed to August 1997. But again I had irrefutable evidence that the meters were not replaced then.


I have given up on getting the Energy Ombudsman to do anything.

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Jeremy, this is interesting. Whos is the energy ombudsman? I haven't heard of this before

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They are supposed to resolve complaints from consumers about the energy companies. But is funded by the energy utilities. They relaunched in April this year but based on my experience they have a lot of work to do.

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Have you got a link to their website please

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