Car due to be repossessed TODAY URGENT PLEASE

[thepalace1 1]

Ok, heres the background..

 

 

I purchased a vehicle in March 2011, (NOT NEW), I signed the CCA and other documents, the car is not secured by the CCA but by a Bill Of Sale.

 

I refused to pay the first and second installments as there is a discrepancy in the part exchange, (I part exchanged my older car and was guarenteed a minimum £1000)

 

Now, we travelled a round trip of over 100 miles to get this car, we arrived at the place at 16:55pm, by the time we left with the new car it was past 7pm, with two hungry, cold screaming kids waiting out in the car all that time, so I was getting rather edgy to get things wrapped up and get away so we could feed the kids, so i rushed through everything, just to get out of there.

 

The bill of sale was already signed by the witness when it came to our time to sign (Joint Finance, me and oh), there was only ever me, the oh and the sales guy, we were in a damp dingy office, he kept dissapearing upstairs to photocopy ID, and get forms printed out, and to ask this and to ask that, anyway, there was only ever the three of us present at the signing.

 

When we got home and I had chance to go through all the papers it turns out on the finance papers it says £1 for part exchange rather than £1000.

 

I questioned them about this and they said it was for tax purposes, I kicked up a fuss and said where is my other £999.00, he said your not having it blah blah blah, any way on that side I have just issed a court claim in my local small claims court fore the £999.00, I got acknowledgement of this yesterday and so did they (There reply was (we will be in touch in due course)) but I think thats for a sperate thread.

 

They said on 5th May that they had issued a default notice which expires on 20th May, which is the date they will repossess.

 

I currently have the vehicle blocked in on my land with my friends car, they cant get the car off my land without first removing my friends.

 

Question 1

 

Can they remove my friends car without permission?

 

Question 2

 

Can I go to court or something to get them to stop repossession as:-

 

a) The Bill Of Sale is invalid as the witness signed prior to us signing, and certainly did not witness us signing ( And he must have been an employee who signed upstairs) (They ahve provided me with a bill of sale registration number, but I have not and am unable to check this with the court in London)

 

b) They have failed to issue a correct default notice

 

Question 3)

 

Can I issue a new claim for question 2 or could I put it onto my claim already going through?

 

 

Please please help, am desperate

Edited May 19, 2011 by thepalace1

[thepalace1 1]

bump...

 

Sorry for bump, only tomorrow is getting very close......

[MARTIN3030 5,286]

Moved here temp.

Anyone here can answer this ?

[thepalace1 1]

Thank you MARTIN for gee'ing up some interest in my thread.

 

I am on edge sat here writing this, I keep going into the kitchen looking out the window to see If they have arrived.

 

Can they take the car? Can they move a third party vehicle out of the way to get to it???

[MARTIN3030 5,286]

ok will move back to car repos and see if can see anyone onlinev to alert them.

[raydetinu 920]

For a bill of sake to be valid it must be registered with the courts; so is it?

you can check by writing only to the royal courts of justice in the strand and costs £5 ( long winded ).

Most loan companies do not bother so its invalid and therfore cnnot take your car.

It seems you have two disputes, one with the dealer and your deposit and one with the loan co.with repossession.

Anyway I think it would be safe to say that the BOS is not registered and you should ask to see a copy of it before they try and do anything.

If Police get involved they are unlikely to be of any help as they wont have a clue about a BOS

unfortunately they do not need a court order to take goods with a BOS ( lack of consumer prtection here )

[dcahelp 1]

Hiya,

 

Do you still have your car? Im sure that NO ONE can repo your car of private property without court order...

 

Private property being drive, garden, third party adress(mums house, friends house etc etc) and they def cant touch your friends car to get to yours.

 

V Sorry I could not get to your thread sooner, unfortunately I work silly shifts.

 

I hope you still have your car...

[MARTIN3030 5,286]

Yes hopefully he will update here soon.It was a pain that the people I was looking for were all offline.

This one isnt my area tbh.

[postggj 3,713]

There are a number of companies operating on the basis of loans secured on property, for example cars. These loans are often provided for relatively small amounts of money, with very high rates of APR (often, over 100, and cases of APR’s over 200% are not uncommon).

 

In many cases, the results of even minor infractions of the rules on these agreements are severe; resulting in the repossession of the goods, and charges that can often amount to hundreds of pounds, while the debtor remains liable for more than the original cost of the loan.

 

However, in almost all cases due to technical mistakes by the creditor, the securities offered by these agreements are null and void even if the underlying debt is not.

 

What is a bill of sale?

 

 

The definition is so broad that it includes any security on private goods (other than a house or land), but do not include any agreement where the goods automatically pass to the lender.

 

But a bill of sale is not a pawnbroking agreement, where the debtor parts from possession of the goods, and redeems them at the end of the contract, or a “sale and buyback” scheme, where the customer sells the goods to the creditor (who then owns them, and gains possession of them), with the “debtor” having an option to purchase the goods back after a period of time), or a hire purchase scheme.

 

for the formal definition look up http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+ Legislation&title=bills+o f+sale&Year=1878&searchEn acted=0&extentMatchOnly=0 &confersPower=0&blanketAm endment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYP E=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom =0&parentActiveTextDocId= 1054646&ActiveTextDocId=1 054652&filesize=4315

 

 

The statutory requirements for a bill of sale to be valid.

 

1. The bill of sale must be in the correct form and contain the prescribed information contained in the 1882 act.

 

2. The bill of sale must be registered.

 

If either requirement is not met, the bill of sale is void (that is, the security will not be enforceable, although the underlying debt may be).

 

Form and Content of a Bill of Sale.

 

The language for some of the wording is is archaic, which most ordinary people today wouldn’t understand. Nevertheless, if not in the prescribed form, it renders the bill of sale void.

 

It will be rendered void if it does not contain:

• The date of the bill
  
• The names and address of the parties
  
• A statement of Consideration
  
• An acknowledgement of the receipt of the advance
  
• An assignment by way of security of particular goods, capable of description
  
• Statements of the sum secured, the rate of interest, and the instalments by which repayments are made,
  
• Agreed terms for the maintenance of security
  
• A clause limiting the grounds of seizure to one of the following:
  
  • Default with the repayments or any covenant of the bill
    
  • Bankruptcy or seizure of the goods for rent, rates, or taxes.
    
  • If the granter fraudulently removes goods, or arranges for their removal
    
  • If execution has been levied against the goods
    

  [*]A schedule containing a description of the chattels

  [*]Execution (signature) by the granter (borrower)

  [*]A statement in the form of the 1882 act

  [*]Attestation by a witness not a party to the bill

  [*]Registration

The consideration is the amount the borrower receives for the bill of sale; NOT the sum secured by the bill (which would include interest and costs). For example, if the agreement is regulated by a consumer credit agreement, it would have to use the amount that was advanced to the borrower BEFORE charges, costs and interest.

 

The bill of sale must contain a statement in the form provided by the act. Here is the wording: http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+ Legislation&title=bills+o f+sale&Year=1882&searchEn acted=0&extentMatchOnly=0 &confersPower=0&blanketAm endment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYP E=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom =0&parentActiveTextDocId= 1055715&ActiveTextDocId=1 055738&filesize=2273 . This is often missing.

 

If a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act is secured on a bill of sale, and the bill of sale is void, the credit agreement may also void by virtue of the act, although the law on this is VERY unclear. I would recommend getting into contact with the national debt line on this issue.

 

So. You’ve got a copy of the bill of sale, and it is a rare bill of sale that complies in all respect with the acts.

 

Can it be enforced?

 

Registration

 

A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered. Since this is an expensive and difficult process, it is rare that this actually happens. However, failure to register the bill of sale renders it void, and so renders any security on goods void.

 

Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods, ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.

 

You can also call the national debt line, and ask them how to search the registry yourself.

 

Requirements of the consumer credit act

 

Most bills of sales are also regulated by the consumer credit act. Such a security will be no more valid than the consumer credit agreement. The requirements of the consumer credit act include:

• A description of the security should be included/embodied in the credit agreement
  
• The bills of sale must be presented to the debtor at the time the credit agreement was signed
  
• The creditor will normally have to issue a default notice before calling in the debt.
  
• The terms of the bills of sale must be consistent with the credit agreement.
  
• The agreement must not be extortionate ( if made before 2007) or constitute an unfair relationship(after 2007)
  

All the other, normal requirements of the consumer credit act apply. It is also possible to apply for a time order to prevent the repossession of goods under the consumer credit act 1974.

 

Enforcement of Bills of sale

 

Before you are required to give up your property, they must (if you ask for it) provide a valid bill of sale exists, that bears the stamp of the Supreme Court.

 

However, repossession does not need to be carried out by a certified or professional “enforcement officer” given this, the professional conduct of those actually repossessing goods is of serious question, AND I ADVISE ANYBODY when presented by a bill of sale to call the police immediately, informing them that you are afraid of a breach of the peace and asking for their attendance

 

many thanks tomterm for the reserch

[raydetinu 920]

OP gone quiet!!

[thepalace1 1]

So Sorry for not getting back, thank you for replying all, thanks MARTIN for attracting interest in my thread.

 

I still have the car, it is still blocked in on my private car park, I have not heard a whisper from the finance company.

 

For a bill of sake to be valid it must be registered with the courts; so is it?

you can check by writing only to the royal courts of justice in the strand and costs £5 ( long winded ).

Most loan companies do not bother so its invalid and therfore cnnot take your car.

It seems you have two disputes, one with the dealer and your deposit and one with the loan co.with repossession.

Anyway I think it would be safe to say that the BOS is not registered and you should ask to see a copy of it before they try and do anything.

If Police get involved they are unlikely to be of any help as they wont have a clue about a BOS

unfortunately they do not need a court order to take goods with a BOS ( lack of consumer prtection here )

 

Thanks for replying Ray, as to your point regarding the bold highlighted above, the dealer and finance company are the same company.

 

The bill of sale is not for a LOAN on my vehicle, I purchased the vehicle secured by way of bill of sale.

 

The main worry I have is the finance company turning up to repossess the vehicle, I will call the police and have them attend in case of a breach of the peace. I know from reading various other threads, and watching various videos on the web that the police will not have a clue regarding civil matters, and certainly will not have a clue with regards the legalities of a the Bills of Sale Act, and they will ultimately side with the finance company allowing them to take my car, and ordering me to remove my friends car so the finance company can remove my car, I just know the police will.

[thepalace1 1]

Just to update everyone regarding the court claim I have ongoing regarding the £999.00 part exchange, I have today taken a call from the finance company, they will be settling out of court for the full £999.00. I am awaiting confirmation by letter before I close the claim down. Now that is sorted out, I will do my duty and commence payments as agreed originally. I am not taking any chances though, and the vehicle will continue to be blocked in until they provide an updated CCA for me to sign reflecting the added £999.00

[MARTIN3030 5,286]

Sounds good to me.

[raydetinu 920]

Sounds like a success then!

You say its not a loan, but it is really ( similar to a pawn ticket without the same protection tho ) goods are sceurity for the money until paid in full.

make sure the original BOS is cancelled before entering into a new agreement.

good luck. Oh! for a stress free life.

I hate being Bi-Polar, its fantastic!