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Invalid contract on insurance?


VP1
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Sorry to go off topic slightly; Jeep IMO you can cancel insurance after it has started under DSR if they have not informed you of your cancellation rights in writing/email until after the policy has started; you have 7days from receipt of your written rights. ( i.e.taking cover over the phone to start immediately )

If they have informed you prior to cover starting in writing that you forfeit your right to cancel then cancellation terms apply.

Its at the insurance cos risk to accept cover.

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Thankyou Ray

 

I never received the credit forms so never returned anything signed or otherwise - They sent a letter saying I had not returned the credit form.

 

Does that short term rate / cancellation charges have to be documented in advance? If you google budget you will see many others are having awful problems on consumer forums with these people.

Edited by VP1
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IMO that is the fee for cancelling the policy, you still have to pay for the benefit of the policy prior to cancelling.

As you did it on line or phone the DSR regs would apply as I said above, so have they advised you of your rights to cancel as above in writing, i.e. you have 7 days to cancel and your payment will be refunded.

You should challenge them on that and see what they say.

see:

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

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No they have not advised on the right to cancel. Like I said I have never had these documents.

 

Now the T & C says £25 cancellation fee but they want a LOT more

I accept I will have to pay for the time on cover and I accept that may be on the basis of 0 no claims but here is the next twist they have sent me two quotes for the same period based on 0 no claims. One is in writing telling me because i have not provided proof of no claims the cost for cover will be £786.06 and then a reminder in email of a quote they sent me for 0 no claims (that I obtained through there system when I realished I faced this possiblility) for £629.79. Same period, same vehicle, 0 ncd and two prices - one when they though they had me over a barrel and the second just prior.

 

Just to demonstrate the I am having just trying to talk to these people here is an email chain that offers an insight:

 

RE: policy numberFrom:Insurance System NCD [email protected]

To: TDate:Thu, 19 May 2011 9:37

Thank You for your Email.

Unfortunately, we only adminster NCD proof and cannot make outbound calls.

You will need to call customer services again.

Kind Regards

NCD Team

 

 

From: T

Sent: 18 May 2011 19:30

To: Insurance System NCD

Subject: RE: policy number

 

Can you supply me with email contact details for your customer services people?

This is now in dispute and I do not wish to deal with this over the telephone rather I wish to ensure there is a documented paper trail attached to all future discussions.

T

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Insurance System NCD

To: T

Sent: Mon, 16 May 2011 9:03

Subject: RE: policy number

 

Thank You for your Email.

Unfortunately, we only adminster NCD proof and cannot make outbound calls.

You will need to call customer services again.

Kind Regards

NCD Team

 

From: T

Sent: 13 May 2011 16:37

To: Insurance System NCD

Subject: RE: policy number

 

Tried ringing your number again and I still can not get through after 15 minutes on hold. Come someone ring me please on 07**********

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Insurance System NCD

To: T

Sent: Fri, 13 May 2011 13:49

Subject: RE: policy number

 

Thank you for your email.

The reason why we can not use your no claims discount is because if you have an active policy with AA and you can only use your no claims discount on one vehicle at a time.

If you have any questions please call our customer service advisor on 0844 412 2122.

Many Thanks

NCD Team

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UPDATE:

Over the last 24 hours they have taken a further 2 direct debits.

One for £75.00 appeared and money took straight after - I cancelled this direct debit within hours

Soon after I sent the email below a second direct debit appears on my account and money is taken immediatly this time for £50

 

they have also taken money from my master card

 

I have now had to close my current account to stop them taking out new direct debits which they do every time I cancel the previous one

 

This was after I had again tried to contact them:

 

From:T

To:ncd Date:Thu, 19 May 2011 18:14

Please forward this on to your customer service team.

I am sending this to your self because I have no other contact details.

Do not take any more money from my account - You have today taken £75.00 against my strict instructions not to do so, this is something which I strongly dispute, will challenge and recover with an indemnity claim lodged via my bank.

I require a full detailed statement of the balance you claim to be owed.

I dispute the amount you have taken for a cancellation fee and refer you back to your own terms and conditions that I have been able to see on your online quotation system. I have received two quotes for insurance from yourself based on 0 NCD showing vastly different amounts and thus dispute the amount owed for the time on cover. I have received no notification under your terms of contract into how you justify the amount you are taking from my account.

I am prepared to pay for the time under insurance cover and the £25 fee shown for the cancellation of the cover but wish to see a breakdown first - I would note the amount you have taken from me so far (via initial credit card deposit and this recent payment) seems to be over and above the monies due for the time on cover and the fee's stated in your T & C.

I have never received notification of the right to cancel under DSR nor a copy of the consumer credit agreement

All attempts to contact you to resolve this are being met with what appears to be a brick wall and I must ask why you are making it so difficult to make email contact with your customer services team - I would request a reason for this lack of support.

I have explained and state again I DO NOT WISH TO DISCUSS THIS OVER THE TELEPHONE BECAUSE I WISH TO MAINTAIN A WRITTEN RECORD OF ALL FUTURE DEALINGS - DO NOT TAKE ANY FURTHER PAYMENTS UNTIL WE HAVE RESOLVED THIS MATTER.

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Insurance System NCD

To: T

Sent: Thu, 19 May 2011 9:37

Subject: RE: policy number

 

Thank You for your Email.

Unfortunately, we only adminster NCD proof and cannot make outbound calls.

You will need to call customer services again.

Kind Regards

NCD Team

 

 

From: T

Sent: 18 May 2011 19:30

To: Insurance System NCD

Subject: RE: policy number

 

Can you supply me with email contact details for your customer services people?

This is now in dispute and I do not wish to deal with this over the telephone rather I wish to ensure there is a documented paper trail attached to all future discussions.

T. Jones

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Insurance System NCD

To: T

Sent: Mon, 16 May 2011 9:03

Subject: RE: policy number

 

Thank You for your Email.

Unfortunately, we only adminster NCD proof and cannot make outbound calls.

You will need to call customer services again.

Kind Regards

NCD Team

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I did warn you that they might take money using your card!

Did you sign a DD form?

I would also contact you bank and CC to ask for them to repay your money or charge it back as you have not authorised these payments!

May take a while but you should get it back. It will beup to The drawarer to poove they had authorisation.

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Closed my bank account today and opened a new one because I am not sure still how they are taking payments, I believe it is direct debit so if that is the case this should stop them continuing to open new DD mandates that I have not authorised. I do not believe they have the debit card account number so they can not set up any mandates using that route. Still no reply to my email requesting an email contact for customer services.

 

I am told that an indemnity claim against the DD's they have taken will pull back the money and the bank will then question the DD with budget but if they state by reply that the money is due to them then the bank simply hand it back! If they take any more on the Credit card that is easier to pull back and keep from them.

 

I just need to now put the case into some logical format and present it.

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Update:

 

Finally got through to someone in the cape town call centre using an 0800 614073 number

 

Informed the terms and conditions relating to the cancellation fees that I have been charged are only available to view in the online self service centre and these terms state the cancellation fee is £75 and there is an additonal short term rate of 40% of the total cost of the policy.

Because I have now cancelled my policy I can not view the terms and conditions as this information is only available to customers with live policies. I asked the operator if she could email a copy of these T & C on which the insurance contract operates but after she checked with a manager I was told these T & C are only available to persons with valid and active policies thus she could not permit me to see them.

 

She then said the £75 fee and the short term rate is made known prior to entering into the contract of insurance when I questioned this by saying that can not be true because only those persons with active policies can view these documented Terms!

I then expalined the only T & C that I was able to view prior to taking out the policy (and thus formed the basis for the contract) show and make mention of a cancellation fee of £25 and nothing more.

 

She said that is not the case and asked I send proof which I did (see link below of the screen grab)

 

So it seems the T & C you see prior to taking out the policy say one thing then once your policy is 'live' you must search a self service centre for the new terms and conditions which are now different after they have your deposit. When you then cancel they enforce the new terms not the ones you read on taking up the contract.

 

http://ultrarun.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008d564008834015432638d13970c-pi

 

With regards the short term rate she states on my policy that amounts to £81.32 but so far (aside from the £75 fee) they have taken a few pence under £100

Edited by VP1
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You could also make a complaint to the FO about about unfair and unclear terms.

So how much have you paid to them to date!

what was their response regarding the DSR regs and them notifying you of your rights to cancel?

You should now put all your comppliants in writing point by to them.

Lesson for all of us dont use Budget.

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Yes I will ray. On the basis of the Terms I have seen they have taken a cancellation fee 3 x higher than they state and for the period on cover (the terms of which they never made clear prior to taking out the contract) they have taken more than they state is due!

 

With regards DSR and consumer credit agreements they state these documents are available in the customer service centre (I can not confirm this because this info is only available to live accounts) and it was my duty to search for and read this information after taking out my policy - I have nothing from them telling me of this other than:

 

Email received on taking out the policy:

Thank you for insuring your Volkswagen Lt35 with Budget - you have joined over a million satisfied and happy customers.

Your policy documents, including your certificate of insurance, are available to you at anytime through our online Self-Service Centre at

Thank you for insuring your van with Budget.

The Budget van insurance team

 

 

 

This has been a very useful sounding board that enabled me to clarify what the real issue was with these people and the facts that I need to present. I now have a solid basis for a complaint to the regulators.

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Not being legaly minded ,

If you agree an amount, then because of futher information,

the contract is changed then surely this is a new contract,

If this is correct, you did not accept the new contract,

So how can they charge a higher cancellation fee,

Should it not be based on the original contract, as no new contract has been entered into.

 

Hope this makes sense

 

leakie

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Leakie, good point.

VP1 add that to your list!

Also I pressume you have viewed this;

http://www.budgetinsurance.com/Terms--Conditions/#16

and

http://www.budgetinsurance.com/Car-Insurance/ServiceAdministration-fees/

and this regarding DSR, they must inform of your rights to cancel.

http://www.netlawman.co.uk/info/distance-marketing-consumer-financial-services.php

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Those terms and conditions relating to cancellations fees are not the same that terms and conditions that you are asked to view PRIOR to taking out the contract. Indeed those terms are what you need to search for after the event it seems and those are the terms the operator was not authorised to let me see yesterday.

 

The terms and conditions you see prior to paying your money and accepting the contract state as I have shown previously

 

 

Now I have just ran another quote through the system and the screen where you agree the contract is now totally different plus the terms you are shown have changed . Screen shot here:

 

http://ultrarun.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008d564008834014e8892244d970d-pi

 

http://ultrarun.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008d564008834015432717930970c-pi

 

Note between the two screen grabs the differences

 

Leakie I see your point and I will base it all on the original quote I accepted and the terms that I viewed prior.

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When you now click on the terms link in the quotation process you now only get this

 

http://ultrarun.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008d56400883401538e9eb498970b-pi

 

Only a few days ago, and certainly when I entered into my insurance it shown this

 

http://ultrarun.typepad.com/.a/6a00e008d564008834015432638d13970c-pi

 

They have changed everything over the last 48hrs!

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They should make available the terms and conditions applicable to YOUR policy when you took it out and if they wont makes you think they have something to hide!

Also I think ammendments can be made to the policy, and would be applicable only if both parties agree to the changes.

It would appear you are not alone:

see;

http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews66780.html

Defo worth a complaint to the FSA or FO

these people should not be trading! This would appear to be how they make their money, offer cheap policies ( they are only brokers ) then look for ways to rip you off if you amend or cancel or even make a claim!

Write to the peterborough address on website.

Co. Secretary is N E Wright; Directors are S Klinkert, P A Winslow, I R Leech.

good luck.

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Ray I think you are right. There seems to be a multitude of terms and conditions floating around with people being charged a wide range of charges that all appear to be without any prior notification.

 

Trying to put a claim together but with the mass of data that seems to change all the time it's confusing knowing where to start.

 

The link to the reviews of budget makes interesting reading and seems to confirm that everyone seems to be drawn in on cheap terms then stung at any opportunity with the company changing all the terms and taking money from your account without any notice.

 

I have had to close my account and reopen another just to try and stop them taking unauthorised monies

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  • 2 months later...

WHAT THEY DONT TELL YOU..

 

IS THE CORRECT EMAIL THIS IS SO YOUR ACCOUNT WILL CONTINUE TO BE DEBITED THE WRONG AMOUNT AND THEY CAN BLAME YOU FOR NOT CONTACTING THEM,

 

WE HAD 6 YEARS NO CLAIM BONUS THEY ASKED US TO SEND PROOF VIA EMAIL TO ncd@insurance-systemDOT CO DOT UK.. OF WHICH WE DID .. THEY KNEW DAME WELL THEY WOULDN'T RECEIVE IT...

 

AND THE TIMESCALE OF WHICH THEY GAVE US TO AMEND THE ACCOUNT DETAILS OF THE AMOUNT THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE EXPIRED AS THEY KNEW IT WOULD SO THEY TOOK £107 INSTEAD OF £42.....

 

THE CORRECT EMAILS TO USE MY FRIEND IS THIS ONE

 

 

NCD@insurance-systemDOT CO DOT UK

WHAT THEY DONT TELL YOU OVER THE PHONE IS THE FIRST 3 LETTERS ARE IN UPPERCASE

 

THATS TO THEY MAKE US LOOK LIKE WE WERE NOT LISTENING WHERE IN FACT ITS THERE WAY OF SCREWING US OVER ....SO THEY CAN CLAIM MORE MONEY FROM US AND JUST SAY OH 'WE'LL MAKE YOUR MONTHLY PAYMENTS LESS IN ACCORDANCE TO THE AMOUNT YOU'VE OVER PAID ...BULL SH*T RETURN THE ,MONEY NDC THAT YOU TOOK UNAUTHORIZED.. THATS WHAT THEY SHOULD DO BUT THEY DONT IM NOW WITHOUT MONEY FOR SHOPPING THANKS TO THESE IDIOTS NOT HAPPY NEW BORN BABY AT HOME .. ,MAKES ME SICK NOT HAPPY BUNNY HERE ....

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