@asklloydsbank Starting a Lloyds TSB - PPI Claim ***Claim Successful***

[Hass1235]

Sorry Andy what do you mean?

[AndyOrch]

Their defence starts at No3 on your upload where 1&2?

[Hass1235]

Oh Ok, sorry it looks like I forgot to scan the first page at my friends scanner.

 

Here I've retyped it:

 

"

1. In this Defence:

 

1.1 References to paragraph numbers herein are, unless otherwise indicated, references to the paragraphs of the Particulars of Claim as attached to the Claim Forms;

 

1.2 The phrase "not admitted" denotes that the Defendant is unable to admit or deny the allegation, further or alternatively, that the matter in question is not within the Defendant's own knowledge and that the Defendant requires the Claimant to prove it;

 

1.3 the terminology in the Particulars of Claim is adopted;

 

2. This Defence is settled without prejudice to the Defendant's right to apply for the proceedings herein to be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim and/or as an abuse of the Court's process pursuant to CPR Part 3, Rule 3.4(2)(a) and/or (b) under CPR Part 24, Rule 24.2(a)(i) and (b).

"

 

then section 3 "The Parties" starts in the next page.

[AndyOrch]

Basically an holding defence and flimsy one at that.Your word against theirs and you can prove they have not fully complied.

Watch out for them making application to strike out they have already requested it.You now need to file a response to their defence

and inform the court to proceed and release AQs.

 

I will get back to you Hess re response during the week.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

Thank you so much Andy, really appreciate your help.I bet they are count on people like me not knowing the legal process to take advantage.

 

You are right yes I can prove that they did not comply with my SAR, because they send me a screen shot and only the payments I made to pay off credit cards and nothing about the loan.

 

many thanks again Andy

 

I'll wait for your response and how to proceed next.

[AndyOrch]

Hass

 

Can you post up or type out the your P.o.C verbatim when you have time.Keep an eye on the dates you have 28 days to respond to their defence.

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

Hi Andy,

 

Here is the P.O.C details.

 

"

1.The Defendant is a Data Controller within the meaning of the Data Protection Act and is responsible for the processing of data of which the Claimant is a Subject. 2. The Claimant has had the following account numbers (“the Accounts”) with the Defendant which were opened on 30th July 1998:-

1) a personal loan a/c no *********** (closed on or around March 2006)

2) a credit card a/c nos *********** (closed on or around Sept 2010)

3) a credit card a/c no *********** (close on or around March 2011).

3 On the 22nd May 2011 the Claimant sent a Subject Access Request, pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to the Defendant.

4 The Defendant has failed to comply.

5 The Claimant seeks an order that the Defendant do comply with the Claimant’s Subject Access Request.

6 Under the terms of Section 15(2) of the Data Protection Act 1998, where the Defendant contests that information requested under the Claimant’s Subject Access Request is not included within the scope of Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998, the Claimant requests that the Court inspects that information, and where it finds that the Defendant’s opinion is unfounded, that it orders such information be included within the information supplied to the Claimant under the Subject Access Request.

"

 

Will keep an eye on the dates to reply to their defense (28 days from 08/10/11), I'm just waiting your response to inform the court to proceed and release the AQs.

[AndyOrch]

You must answer all the points raised in their defence in a formal reply to the defence, which should be sent to the defendant and copied to the court at least 7 clear days before the hearing date. It should be clear and lucid and, where necessary, advise the defendant how his or her dissatisfaction can be remedied, for example by submitting returns. It must not be capable of being construed as an attempt to prejudice or predetermine the outcome of a defence hearing, though there is nothing wrong in making it clear that you will be seeking judgment at the hearing.

In order to comply with CPR15.8, a reply to the defence must include a Statement of Truth, Without a Statement of Truth the reply may be thrown out by the court and is not admissible as evidence.

Where the defence has been filed by someone acting on behalf of the defendant, typically a solicitor, you should send the reply to the person acting and send a copy to the defendant, with a further copy to the court.

A comprehensive reply to the defence will resolve the difficulties that the defendant may otherwise seek to raise at the hearing. In this way, the eventual hearing will be all the more straightforward and the court is more likely to enter judgment speedily in your favour.

You will find it helpful to set out in your reply any references to legislation, when you have time to consider the matter fully, rather than when you are in the courtroom.

If there is not enough time to send a formal reply to the defence before the hearing, you should attend the hearing and be prepared to answer all the points raised in the defence verbally. However you may still find it helpful to prepare a formal reply to assist in presenting your case at the hearing.

Your reply to the defence, should provide sufficient evidence in most cases to convince the court to enter judgment for your claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited October 19, 2011 by Andyorch

[Hass1235]

Hi Andy,

 

I've put together the reply below and would be grateful of your help.

many thanks

 

"

In the XXXXXXXXX County Court

Claim Number: XXXXXXX

Between

 

XXXXXXXX

Claimant

-and-

Lloyds TSB Bank Plc

Defendant

--------------------------------------

REPLY TO DEFENCE

--------------------------------------

 

The Defence

1. The Defendant claims (amongst other things) that:-

1.1. the Defendant has complied to the Data Subject Access Request (“DSAR”) made by the Claimant pursuant to section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (the “DPA”)

1.2. the Defendant has provided all data to the Claimant of which the Claimant is the subject and which is held by the Defendant.

1.3. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to such remedy as sought or at all, and the Claimant has failed to substantiate or elaborate his statement that the Defendant has failed to comply.

1.4. the Claimant is put to strict proof of this statement.

1.5. the Defendant’s right to apply for the proceedings herein to be struck out as disclosing no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim and/or as an abuse of the Court’s process pursuant to CPR Part 3, Rule, 4(2)(a) and/or (b) under CPR Part 24, Rule 24.2(a)(i) and (b), and that the Claimant be ordered to pay the Defendant’

Reply to the Defence

 

2. Paragraph 7 of the Defence is disagreed, I made the final payments to each of the accounts as follows.

2.1. Personal loan a/c xxxxxxxxxxxx, on 24th Jan 2006 I made the full and final payment of the account. On 21st March 2006 I received a written confirmation of the final payment from the Defendant.

2.2. Credit Card a/c xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, on 1st Sept 2010 I made the final payment on the account.

2.3. Credit Card a/c xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, on 2nd March 2011 I made the final payment on the account.

3. Paragraph 8 of the Defence is agreed, on 22nd May 2011 I sent a Data Subject Access Request (“DSAR”) to be provided all data of which I was the data subject for the entire period I had dealings with the Defendant in relations to any matter and in any form. Also I informed the Defendant that the DSAR was not limited only to transactions and not merely to 6 years of historical information.

4. Paragraph 9 of the Defence is denied that the Defendant complied with the DSAR. on 5th July 2011 I received only the following documents from the Defendant to my DSAR request:-

4.1. One screen shot of the Defendant’s computer records titled “Display all Contact Notes”.

4.2. A list of payment transactions made by the Claimant to the Defendant for credit card a/c xxxxxxxxxxxxx. (duplicates)

4.3. A list of payment transactions made by the Claimant to the Defendant for credit card a/c xxxxxxxxxxxx.

4.4. One screen shot of the Defendant’s Debt Collection Agency computer records titled “Debtor Memo Screen Print”.

5. Paragraph 10 of the Defence is denied, the Defendant has only provided the documents as above.

6. Paragraph 11 of the Defence is denied, since my DSAR request on 22nd May 2011 the Defendant has failed to provide me the following documents for all accounts or associated accounts I have held with the Defendant’s organisation that I’m entitled to by law within the terms of the Data Protection Act 1998.

6.1. A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to my personal loan and credit cards with Defendant’s organization.

6.2. Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

6.3. Full copies of all contracts which the Defendant believe exists or have existed between myself and the organization, including true copies of any documents Defendant hold in support of the same.

6.4. Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

6.5. The Defendant should not that the DSAR is not limited to only my payment transactions history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historic information.

7. Paragraph 12 of the Defence is denied.

Statement of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Reply to Defence are true.

 

Signed:

 

Dated:

"

[AndyOrch]

Get back to you shortly on this Hass.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

Hi Andy,

 

I've just received the following "General Form of Judgement or Order" from the court.

 

"

Before District Judge XXXXXX sitting at XXXXXXX County Court etc...

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

Claimant to file and serve a reply to the Defence by 20 November 2011.

 

Dated 20 October 2011

"

Does this mean that they just want the reply to be sent to them and ltsb solicitor by the 20/11/11.

[Hass1235]

Hi Andy, I just tried to pm you but your email is full.

 

I'm hoping to send the reply as soon as possible and would really aprreciate your input.

 

regards

hass

[AndyOrch]

Hi Hass

 

Responding to your pm.

 

Ok the above defence you have prepared looks format correct and concise.What are you claiming exactly figure wise PPI?

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

Hi Andy thank you for reply.

 

I'm trying ltsb to send the statements first (or transactions list) detailing all the transactions which they haven't done yet. So no PPI figures are included in this claim yet, but if I win I will ask the DJ for court fees to be refunded.

 

I hope that's clear and makes sense.

[AndyOrch]

Right so its Part 8 claim at the first stage.

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

That's right I've completed CPR Part 8 since I wasn't claiming any cost just compliance and I hope court fees later on.

 

Is it Ok and ready to send the reply tomorrow?

[AndyOrch]

As long as you feel it refutes their points in their defence (which it does appear to me) point by point, do you need to extend what it is ultimately hoping to achieve

by the order/request that there will be a PPI claim to follow on the supply of information.?

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

That's my goal, to claim the PPI once I get the information I need basically (breakdown of transactions). I feel that I don't have the info to do that yet, since they being obstructive from the beginning,

[AndyOrch]

Understood thats fine.

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

Thank you for all your help Andy really appreciat it.

 

I'll send it tomorrow to the solicitor and hand delivery to court. Will keep you informed what happens next.

[Hass1235]

Hi Andy,

 

Today I received a Case Management Conference taking place on 12/01/12 from the court, after sending my reply to the defence.

 

Is this the correct process? I was expecting allocation questionaire before any hearing according to the post I read on the site.

 

Do I need to prepare something first before the hearing? I read that I need to do a case summary containing a chronology of the claim to assist court?

[AndyOrch]

Its quite normal because of the part 8 claim, further directions may be needed to to decide on allocation.

 

Evidence – general

 

8.6

 

(1) No written evidence may be relied on at the hearing of the claim unless –

(a) it has been served in accordance with rule 8.5; or

 

(b) the court gives permission.

 

 

(2) The court may require or permit a party to give oral evidence at the hearing.

 

(3) The court may give directions requiring the attendance for cross-examination of a witness who has given written evidence.

 

(Rule 32.1 contains a general power for the court to control evidence)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Hass1235]

Well after just over 2 years since starting my claim against Lloyds, FOS finally upheld 2 (Credit Cards) out of 3 of my claims due to existing medical and I'm only waiting to hear about the personal loan now.

 

Whoa I'm ahead of myself, lets go back to the court date as per post 71.

 

On 12/01/12 I went to the court 30 mins early, only to find that Lloyds solicitor was already waiting. As soon as I check in with the court clerk, he asked me if I wanted to see the solicitor to negotiate to our differences before we see the judge. I agreed thinking that she will finally acknowledge the outstanding documents. I know I was hopeful, because she just repeated that they only keep records for six years and mine were 12-14 years old. I told her if Lloyds were able to send me the account notes from my old current a/c, showing when I applied the loan and credit cards (Jul 98), surely they should also be able to provide me with the transactions history.

 

Suffice it to say that we agreed to disagreed, so off we went to see the judge. The judge read my defence point by point, then asked the solicitor about the missing documents (in firm tone), which she replied that they already provided me all the records they had and that they don't keep records more than six years. The judge took a pause for a moment and it was my turn now (uh-oh!).

 

First, can I say that it was my first time ever in a court (let alone in court chambers), so I was so nervous to the point that my mouth was dry as a desert. Tried to compose myself (to no avail), and I said to the judge that the ICO to told me that access to personal data is not only limited to six years and if the organisation (data controller) is in possession of them then they should provide all the data (since 1998). I showed him the account notes and said "since they have already provided me the account notes surely this shows that the records exist and they should be able to provide me all the transactions history". I felt that the judge believed the six years cap (like everybody else) and I was losing the argument, then I said that the bank decided just being selective with the data to provide me your honor (in frustration). He laughed and said you can't say 'they being selective if you don't have the prove that they are' perhaps seeing how experience I was in court. I apologised to the judge and I rephrased it 'that the bank provided me some data and not all of the data as specified by ICO under the Data Protection Act'.

He paused again and said some legal terms about sending a letter requiring me to list point by point all the information I require. I didn't understand it so I asked the judge if he wanted me to just list all the info I was requesting. He laughed again and glanced at the solicitor then repeated the same legal stuff again with a smile. I sensed that maybe he was telling me something that I was missing, so I thanked the judge and left it at that. Then we left the chambers and the court drama was over (phew!)

 

Less than a week after my court appearance and whilst still waiting the letter from the judge, I received the two big brown envelops containing (you've guest it) the transactions history. But only for the two credit card and only going back to Jan 2000, I was still missing the credit cards transactions history from 1998-1999 and all of the personal loan. But I was relieved because at least I had some data and that I can always use an average of the charges for the missing two years for the credit cards for my SOC spreadsheets and the account notes showed the personal loan amount and with PLPI.

I photocopied all the records and attached a covering letter to the court to show that records existed all along and handed in to the court so I won't liable to any cost before I received the judge's letter and that I didn't want to proceed with my court proceeding now.

 

Then after receiving the rejection letter from Lloyds, I sent all to FOS to deal with them in Oct 2012 and have been waiting since.

 

I would like to say that going to court is not easy and after that drama I wouldn't like to go through it again let alone recommend it. if I don't see the court chambers again for the rest of my life it will be too soon but that's just my experience.

 

P.S. Could someone please move this thread to the PPI section, it looks like things have changed since I was last here many thanks.

[Hass1235]

Finally as of Thursday all my 3 claims (2 CC and Loan) against Lloyds dating back June 1998 have been upheld by FOS. Lloyds have accepted FOS judgement to the 2 credit cards and now waiting to hear the personal loan and the payments.

 

Hi IMS and Andy, could you please inbox me on how to make a small contribution to CAGGERs for all your help along the way I really appreciated.

[ims21]

Hi Hass

 

This is sounding good then.

 

To make a donation, yu can either click on this donation link or scroll to the bottom of the thread and you will see a box with the text "Please consider making a small donation etc....." That too is a link to the donations page.