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    • I am being harrangued for a debt I don't owe whilst in hardship by EDF, who was given this household's supply by OFGEM when it closed down several small companies in 2019. Unbelievably, this is happening during cold months and a full strict lockdown!   I consider that this is a crime on several counts: 1) fraud by nondisclosure, as per 2006 act: that free energy exists and that patents have been suppressed to help us use it, thus giving the illusion that energy can only be supplied by for profit companies (the same is true of water), when it is a naturally occurring, God-given free resource which has been harnessed and sold back to us, and it's hard to avoid or find alternatives 2) the energy industry is a form of modern slavery as per 2015 act, holding us in lifelong custom: something we need, can't easily find an alternative from or not use. This supplier took over without consent or knowledge or warning and will not relinquish me without paying them; but the amount grows as they continue our abusive relationship 3) as utility acts such as the 1989 and 1990 clash with inalienable natural Common Law and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948 and various other laws, some to be listed anon, that the so-called powers given to energy companies to gain money and bully are not lawful 4) removal of energy takes our rights (as in the UDHR) to eat, wash, be warm, work, communicate, and have leisure and enjoyment. Particularly, it can cut those off who rely on the internet and battery operated phones, thus making them vulnerable, and causing a snowball effect 5) cutting off, or the fear and bullying around doing so and 'recovering debts', causes mental and physical suffering, as well as great inconvenience and loss. a) These are recoupable in monetary terms of the claimant (ie customer's) choosing b) this amounts to constructive demise or manslaughter  - including attempt and conspiracy to commit this serious crime (attempt and conspiracy apply for all the others below) 6) asking for money in a way which is upsetting, intimidating or distressing is another criminal offence under the Prevention From Harassment act of 1997 - and most debt demands fulfil this, and are not incidental, but designed to cause fear in the way they are worded, in the design of the 'red, urgent' envelopes, in the vagueness of who and where the collector is, offering a generic phone number; bluffing about their powers and a warrant; coming to the door with hand delivered envelopes to embarass in front of household members and neighbours; and the way they appear at your door to actually collect or tamper with supply 7) There is Aggravated Trespass under the criminal justice and public order act of 1994, where if you have given written notice that implied access to your property (I include remotely, in the case of smart meters), to enter the premises (including outside areas) without written permission and especially with ill-intent, is a further summary, ie imprisionable offence 8) this is also exhortion and blackmail 9) it is an aggressive sales technique, no different from drugs barons and loan sharks 10) a prepayment meter is just another way of forcing debt repayment, and as the customer doesn't set the amount, if they do not have resources they are still left without power and heat 11) this is closely related to the data and surveillance and weaponised energy of 5G via smart meters, and so this is a) espionage b) mass experimentation under the Nuremburg code of 1948 c) biowarfare 12) it is also breaking and entering, if they force or pick locks 13) any physical abuse has other crimes - such as battery, grevious bodily harm, assault 14) lying or tricking to gain entry is also a crime 15) their involving your neighbours breaks confidentiality, such as asking about you, getting them to let them in. This is against their industry code and 16) during lockdowns and other restrictions related to covid, they break the coronavirus act 2020. Utility workers are only classed as keyworkers when they are keeping a supply running and safe. They are not permitted to work or travel to harass and cut off - this is especially reprehensible during an extended pandemic when so many are anxious have weakened immunity, and financial difficulties. When most of us are not meant to see loved ones, especially indoors 17) if the operatives are masked - this includes a locksmith or any enforcement with them - this heightens the offence as, despite covid guidance, it is done with criminal intent and knowingly a) makes them look sinister, thus adding to fear of the customer b) hides their identity and obfuscates justice 18) any persons involved, including administrators and the judge who created any warrant 19) to exaggerate one's legal powers is also an offence   Furthermore, utility companies send out - and sell out - debts and debt collectors who have no knowledge of the communications between the company and the customer; such as whether they are misbilled, or even the right person. I also believe that poor service, such as being ignored or bullied, means a rebate on the 'bill'.   The ombudsman have consistently exacerbated and failed to put right, and OFGEM's policies have added to this too.   We need to take the power back into our hands; to choose our energy source and provider; to harness free, safe energy.   I am putting EDF staff on notice for all these.   Has anyone else had any similar trouble for this, especially in the last year? I would like to know the extent of the problem   I am considering class action. An expression of interest in no way commits you, especially financially.   You may be interested in my piece at https://elspethr.wordpress.com/2020/08/22/expulsion-from-the-garden-its-time-we-took-our-energy-back/, via which you can get in touch  
    • No, there is no ombudsman for this kind of thing. It's a huge industry with a lack of regulation which is why it broadly speaking does what it wants without a lot of regard for customers. You haven't addressed the question which I put to you in my last post.
    • Hi - email submitted.   After some sleep (4am wake up yesterday - loooong day) I redrafted email to be a bit more readable whilst clearly stating the points above but being less aggressive/rude 😳    Being very tired I briefly considered just getting the repair and compensation (if they offered) but after some sleep and in the light of day I saw some further damage to the piping (minor, but there) on the same bit of arm so promptly hit send on my email! My sister also told me of her friend who had a whole host of problems trying to get damage on delivery fixed so I’m definitely not going down that road. I’m going for a replacement.    Will update as soon as I hear anything.   Thanks
    • DX - regarding the t&c- do you mean the bit at the very bottom that says "this agreement incorporates t&c set out in the long form version" ?   ill take this up with them in mediation, got nothing to lose   Just so i understand, that signed agreement isnt actually the t&c ? that should be included too? im looking online for the actual govt guidance, but the OFT has shut down and the consumer regualtion guidance doesnt actually mention t&c as far as i can see
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Help just lost in court to CL Finance/Howard Cohen


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I have just looked through some threads I posted on last year thread no: 287 Mrs Ski vs Howard Cohen/ CL finance. I beleive I may of signed one of these consent forms and sent it back to them. Think I may of dumped myself right in it guys ????

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I have just looked through some threads I posted on last year thread no: 287 Mrs Ski vs Howard Cohen/ CL finance. I beleive I may of signed one of these consent forms and sent it back to them. Think I may of dumped myself right in it guys ????

 

 

You may have yes. Try and get a copy.

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I have signed a consent order in the solicitors for defendant section, just going to put it up.

 

Ah, yes, the document posted abouve is the one I was asking about yesterday. This is the consent or Tomlin Order. The reason it all went to court yesterday was because you defaulted on the Tomlin Order and this is why judgment was awarded against you yesterday.

 

Can anyone help SJ any further please?

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Hi again CM just found it not knowing what a tomlin order was, but apparently it is prohibited by civil procedure rules for me to sign a by consent order( check thread 287 Mrs ski vs Howard Cohen/ CL finance so fingers crossed I can still do something ??? I thought I would send a SAR to CL to try and get all info they hold on me as I have had no luck with the CCA req or formal req. The judge and Cohens had far more info to refer to yesterday than I did.

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Hi again CM just found it not knowing what a tomlin order was, but apparently it is prohibited by civil procedure rules for me to sign a by consent order( check thread 287 Mrs ski vs Howard Cohen/ CL finance so fingers crossed I can still do something ??? I thought I would send a SAR to CL to try and get all info they hold on me as I have had no luck with the CCA req or formal req. The judge and Cohens had far more info to refer to yesterday than I did.

 

Consent or Tomlin Orders are prepared when a payment agreement is established between the parties and prevents a claimant from taking further action (ie the claim is stayed) unless the agreed terms detailed in the Order are broken, i.e. in this case the payments agreed to in the Order were not made, hence CCJ and judgment awarded against you.

 

I have not looked at the thread you are refering to, but as far as I know Civil Procedure Rules do not prevent Tomlin Orders from being signed. If anything, I would have thought this "out of court unless it goes wrong" procedure would in fact be welcomed. I will try and find the thread you mentioned and see the circumstances of that.

 

All the best,

CM

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Consent or Tomlin Orders are prepared when a payment agreement is established between the parties and prevents a claimant from taking further action (ie the claim is stayed) unless the agreed terms detailed in the Order are broken, i.e. in this case the payments agreed to in the Order were not made, hence CCJ and judgment awarded against you.

 

I have not looked at the thread you are refering to, but as far as I know Civil Procedure Rules do not prevent Tomlin Orders from being signed. If anything, I would have thought this "out of court unless it goes wrong" procedure would in fact be welcomed. I will try and find the thread you mentioned and see the circumstances of that.

 

All the best,

CM

 

 

It's here on page 15...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?237134-Mrs-Ski-vs-Howard-Cohen-CL-Finance

 

I'm not sure consumeredge is correct to be honest.

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Thanks for the link Ganymede. I too am not certain that Consumeredge is correct - he/she is referring to a "by consent document" which to my mind is different to a Consent Order or Tomlin Order which is signed and stamped by the Court.

 

Sleepy Jean, to my mind, the "by consent" document you signed and posted up in #53 doesn't look to have been correctly prepared in the form of a Tomlin or Consent Order and yet this is what the Claimant is acting on to obtain judgment, which has now been granted by the Court!! JMHO - what does anyone else think?

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Sleepy Jean

 

Are there charges on this account for late payments, any PPI that may have been added to the loan? If there are we maybe able to counter claim for them, but we need more details. What figures are we looking at here?

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I think the most imporant thing is to have sight, obtain a copy of the Tomlin order that was "allegedly" signed. Have you sent a Subject Access Request ?

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Hi Uk, The judge said she had paperwork there saying I had admitted to £5000 What I have the ccj for is to pay back £11560.00. This is why I wanted the CCA and other info back in Oct 2010 but they have not sent me anything apart from that one letter and this new court hearing. Thanks for looking

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Surely if I had had the information I have been requesting since last year I would have had a better idea of what was going to happen on Friday PLEASE someone tell me they are in BREACH of something ????

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I have signed a consent order in the solicitors for defendant section, just going to put it up.

 

Guys, I think this is the document purported to be a Tomlin Order that SJ signed - please see post 53 of this thread.All the best,CM

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Thanks CM for all your help I dont suppose you can help me to fill out the N244 to get judgement set aside until CL/Howard Cohen comply with my requests for information. Also I have spoken to the court to get them to release all paperwork they had last friday and have also asked to see the consent/ Tomlin order they used in court as I am guessing it is not the same as the copy I have ????

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Thanks CM for all your help I dont suppose you can help me to fill out the N244 to get judgement set aside until CL/Howard Cohen comply with my requests for information. Also I have spoken to the court to get them to release all paperwork they had last friday and have also asked to see the consent/ Tomlin order they used in court as I am guessing it is not the same as the copy I have ????

 

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I'm not experienced in any way to assist with the completion of such documents - I make comments purely based on personal experiences. I have "alerted" your thread so hopefully someone who can offer the assistance will check it out soon.Sorry I can't be of more help.CM

PS was interested to see that the hearing was by telephone - is that quite common these days??

Edited by Chipmeister
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..... but apparently it is prohibited by civil procedure rules for me to sign a by consent order..

 

hi,

haven't read whole thread but, just to note on this point generally. what it is is that a 'court officer' cannot simply '..seal' an order where a partie(s) is LiP (cpr 40.6, 2, b). Where there is an LiP signing, then there must be an 'application notice' etc -> (CP R Practice Direction 40b para3.3). so, for eg where there is a draft con order that includes 'solicitors for the def.' then 'solicitors' should be crossed out/deleted/reworded so it is clear that it is the LiP signing and not a legal rep. and they should follow the procedure in 40b, 3.3!?

imo

Edited by HSBCrusher
typo

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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hi,

haven't read whole thread but, just to clarify on this point generally. what it is is that a 'court officer' cannot simply 'enter and seal' an order where a partie(s) is LiP. where there is an LiP signing, then there must be an 'application notice' etc -> (Pract Direction 40b para3.3). so, for eg where there is a draft con order that includes 'solicitors for the def.' then 'solicitors' should be crossed out/deleted/reworded so it is clear that it is the LiP signing and not a legal rep.

imo

 

Ah, so this is most likely the reason the Court refused the claimant's initial application.

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Hi I have just recieved papers from the courts where CL finance has tried to get a court order for me to pay for a loan. The courts have said they have not prepared the paper work correctly and referred to The Tomlin case, does anyone know what this is ????. I have already sent CL finance a CCA request with a postal order and a formal notice of account being in dispute and a request for information in October last year. They have answered in Oct 2010 with a letter saying they currently do not hold a copy of the required document on site and are in the process of retrieving a copy for me They also state in the letter that while my request remains outstanding (which it still does) enforcement action will not be taken against me. Am I just stupid or is this court letter I have just received a breach of that ???? until I received this new court letter last week. Any ideas what I should do next ????Any help would be appreciated. ???? I am in court on Friday any ideas on what I should say :-x Thanks

 

You have served a CCA 1974 s 77/78 and the lender or CL Finance have not provided it? If they have not provided the true copy of the agreement and all related documents within 14 days, after 30 days they cannot enforce the debt whilst they are in default. They must not enter a negative statement on a credit reference agency credit file either.If they do produce the copy before Friday, make sure the agreement is signed by BOTH parties. Section 60 says an agreement is not properly executed if it does not comply with the "prescribed terms". A court cannot enforce an agreement if section 60 prescribed terms have not been complied with. Section 127 stops a court enforcing it.

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This is a suggestion..... there are "Rules of Disclosure". This is because you cannot defend what you cannot see. Also, had 14 days elapsed between the service of your s77 CCA 1974 and the alleged Tomlin Order? Certainly if the answer is yes, then enforcement cannot take place whilst the s77 has not been complied with and could make the Tomlin Order void. It seems in doubt that the Tomlin Order is valid seeing the posts by Chipmeister.

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Hi Uk, The judge said she had paperwork there saying I had admitted to £5000 What I have the ccj for is to pay back £11560.00. This is why I wanted the CCA and other info back in Oct 2010 but they have not sent me anything apart from that one letter and this new court hearing. Thanks for looking

 

I know that if you serve a CCA s77 and it is not complied with, send a demand for one as a reminder, and further down the line you go to I think it is the FSA but anyway, it is the licencing authority and if you get this right, you can actually get the lenders lisence revoked. A lender who can't lend? But it is not something I am expert at.

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Ah, so this is most likely the reason the Court refused the claimant's initial application.

 

 

From what I understand from your thread (sorry if I am wrong but on the train home from work and been a busy day!) there is no judgment against you currently in place and the hearing is to lift the stay and enter judgment as you did not comply with the Tomlin Order. So therefore there is currently nothing to set aside?

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From what I understand from your thread (sorry if I am wrong but on the train home from work and been a busy day!) there is no judgment against you currently in place and the hearing is to lift the stay and enter judgment as you did not comply with the Tomlin Order. So therefore there is currently nothing to set aside?

 

As I understand it, the court hearing took place last Friday by telephone, and judgment for not complying with the tomlin order (see post 53) was passed then. I think this is what SJ is trying to set aside. Is that right SJ?

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Thank you all you are giving me hope chipmeister is correct they have given me a ccj to make me pay. They were reffering to paperwork that both the judge and Howard Cohens were in possesion off. I was not sent any of said paperwork to refer to so I was stuffed. I sent CL finance a CCA req a formal req for information and a formal letter of account in dispute back in October last year. They have not sent me any paperwork to date only a letter confirming that while my req was outstanding enforcement action would not be taken against me. HUH until my court case last Friday which has gone in there favour. All paper work I have is on this thread. I am hoping it is possible to get the judgement set aside until such times as CL comply with my req for info and I can defend there claims. Many thanks for taking a look at this for me it is greatrly appreciated.

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