RLP targeting young girls?? LONG!

[lilofanta]

I will start by saying I have been reading this forum for the last week or two and I think the team behind helping individuals such as myself is great, I would also like to make clear I do not condone stealing, I have never done anything 'dishonest' let alone been involved with the police. I am 19 years old.

 

On 25th April I entered Primark in order to buy a plain mens white t shirt (price £2.00) for my boyfriend. Having looked around the store for things for myself, I came across a black t shirt but couldn't find a white one. I put the black t shirt over my arm I was carrying my bag and cardigan with and continued looking for the t shirt and indeed things for myself.

 

Some time later, having completely forgotten about the t shirt and just browsing for myself, I went to leave the store and have a look in New Look which was just across from Primark when I was approached by a security guard. He asked me if I had anything from Primark on me and I mentioned my sandals then noticing I still had the t shirt over my arm. I was full of apologies and offered to pay for the item straight away, he said no no no and called another security guard over. I explained my mistake and tried to hand him back the t shirt offering to pay for it when he asked me to step inside. I then asked him why he wouldn't accept my paying for the item and he said 'I will use force if you continue to not cooperate' so I immediately entered the store.

 

He asked me to follow him to a room where I was met by a manager who explained that they had seen me 'concealing' the item with my cardigan, although the item was infact on top of my cardigan not underneath it. He asked me why I left without paying for the item and I explained that it was an honest mistake and that I would pay for the item, he also refused to allow me to do so and claimed I was 'lying' and if I continued to do so the police would be called, giving me the impression if I said anything other than 'I am a bad person I came to steal from you' I would be deemed lying and the police would be called, although now out of the stressful situation I see that was an empty threat.

 

At this time I was in the room with the manager and two security guards, all male and 6'+ and I mentioned I was feeling intimidated. He then brought a female coworker into the room but no one else left so I was now with four other members of staff, only making me more stressed over a simple mistake.

 

I am totally aware that they have the right to apprehend individuals they believe are acting suspiciously, even just to act as a detterent to shoplifters (if truly proportionate to the crime, and not grossly inflated) but I am not a shoplifter, it was an honest mistake and I believe they are acting in a target-driven manner, as in they are expected to have a certain number of civil recovery cases per month and so pick up 'easy targets' such as myself.

 

The manager searched my bag, emptying out my belongings and further embarrassing me as I had underwear in my bag he was emptying on this table. He asked me how old I am again claiming I was lying and he would call the police if I didn't tell the truth until I showed him I.D and proved to be 19, further fueling my belief I was targetted because he thought I was a young girl to make an example of and easily intimidated into paying the extortionate amount - I read in the CAB report that half of RLP cases are under 25 and 1 in 6 are under 17.

 

The staff members I dealt with that day were completelly ignorant to the RLP process, the manager assured me I would be paying '2 hours solicitors fees' which although perhaps incorporated in the 'admin fee' of other cases, is not 'typical' as he claimed. The other staff members laughed and joked the whole time amongst themselves. He then filled in a form of my description I assume as he said 'how tall are you, 5'8''?' which just shows how truly stupid this man was adding a whole five inches onto my height.

 

Once he had taken a copy of my I.D he explained I was banned from the Primark store, that I was lucky the police weren't called but 'not to do it again' and that I would be recieving a fine in the post within 7 days but was now free to go. He then escorted me out, talking loudly about how he would tell 'everyone' in the near area about what I had done, foul man.

 

I have today recieved a letter dated 6th May, giving me 16 days to decide a course of action, containing much of what I have seen to be typical just trying to scare their way to get some money out of me but some variations:

 

"We are instructed that on 25th April 2011 at our client's premises you committed a wrongful act causing loss to our client." Now obviously, I would argue that the t shirt was recovered with all labels intact so it was 100% fit for resale and so there would be no loss to be recovered in that respect.

 

"In addition to the cost of any goods not recovered or fit for resale, your wrongful actions diverted our client's staff from their normal duties for a significant period of time causing disruption to its business" Okay so they want to claim for the time of the security guards, who's job it is to spot and apprehend shoplifters for er...spotting and apprehending me.

 

"Although the costs our client is entitled to recover are considerable, our client seeks only a contribution towards those losses from you by way of a fixed amount of £130.00, a figure which our client considers is proportionate, but sufficient to act as a deterrent to future incidents." Okay so here is where it appears to be different to other cases I've seen - NO BREAKDOWN?!? I have no idea what the £130 is meant to cover the costs of and unlike in other cases I have seen they haven't given a lesser amount their client would find acceptable.

 

Although having read through this forum I feel much better prepared to tackle the RLP if worst comes to worst and they take my case to court, I am either going to ignore this letter completely or attempt to settle a lesser amount with RLP for a typical reason that I just want it to go away.

 

I'm reluctant to ask them for a 'loss breakdown' as I understand correspondence with them just feeds them into thinking you are a case that can be won with sufficient scaremonger tactics and so they may persue me more aggressively. Does anyone have thoughts on this? Shall I ask for a loss breakdown or is this just a figure plucked from the air by RLP with no relevance to actual losses incurred.

 

Also, is it possible to argue that Primark did nothing to minimise their losses when I offered to pay for the item and they are simply looking to make an example of me? I refer to "“We would advise you that in any civil dispute the parties are under an obligation to consider whether some form of alternative dispute resolution would be more suitable than litigation. Accordingly, though our client’s claim is for £87.50, on an entirely ‘without prejudice’ basis we confirm that our client [boots] would

be prepared to accept £70.00 in full and final settlement of this claim against you, provided that payment is made in full within 21 days." in the CAB report. Am I right in saying Primark did not meet their obligation to consider whether or not accepting my offer to pay for the item as it was an honest mistake would be a more fitting dispute resolution, a long shot I know.

 

I would argue that the phrase 'wrongful act' is open to interpretation. I believe that in order to commit a wrongful act you have to have the intention of commiting said act, I however was unaware I still had the t shirt and so don't believe myself to be dishonest in any way.

 

I would just really appreciate some feedback, do you think I should attempt to offer a lower amount? I have seen in another thread a suggestion to send a letter with attached cheque of whatever more appropriate and proportionate amount with the rough phrase of 'cashing of this cheque will be viewed as an acceptance of this offer in full and final settlement 'without prejudice' for the alleged wrongdoing' any thoughts on this? Obviously it needs to be better worded but you hopefully catch my drift.

 

Alternatively should I ignore this letter completely? Obviously this runs the risk of it being further persued and perhaps taken to court however. What are the chances of this? I know that there are very few cases taken to court by RLP but could anyone give me an idea of whether a case of this type and amount £130 is likely to be persued?

 

At the moment these two options seem the most likely I will eventually choose as I am really just wanting to get rid of this annoyance in my life, thoughts on which I should eventually go with? I am acutely aware that time is running out!

 

Thank you in advance for all of your help/advice and please be assured I am now super aware of myself in a store, particularly one I know to be a client of RLP. Apologies if I am rambling I just want to give as much information as possible and I'm not sure what is relevant.

 

Kind Regards

 

Edit: They also took a copy of my National Insurance Card as they believed my I.D was fake and wanted something else with my name on it - stupid I know. Is there any information they can get from my NI Number?

 

Edit: In the thread 'Stealing wallets from TK MAXX' the OP mentions about the envelope being printed with RLP - which it is, member ArtisanUK suggests that they should be reported for gross breach of privacy to the Trading Standards, the Office for Fair Trading and the Office of the Information Commissioner. Is this worth following up? As due to them having their name on the envelope, my mum opened the letter (she doesn't normally do this but was worried for me) and started asking all sorts of questions when due to embarrassment on my part I had hoped to settle this myself.

Edited May 12, 2011 by lilofanta

[rebel11]

Hi lil

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

 

CAB think this is totally 'unfair', what they have sent you is nothing more then an invoice demanding payment. To the best of my knowledge they haven't taken

anyone to court. If they had called the police and you paid an £80 fine on the spot fine, they would still have sent you an invoice from RLP. That explains why

it's 'unfair'. As you've explained, you offered to pay for the item.

 

Did they take the info with out your consent or did you allow them to take the info?

 

They also took a copy of my National Insurance Card as they believed my I.D was fake and wanted something else with my name on it - stupid I know. Is there any information they can get from my NI Number?

 

If they took it without your permission then lodge a complaint with ICO. You can also write to Primark saying that is what you will be doing. http://www.ico.gov.uk/

[Crocdoc]

This is another money making [problem] similar to Parking Charge Notices, personally I would completely ignore it. CAB have highlighted this [problem] in the past. Remember it would be extremely difficult if not impossible for any company top raise any type of action whether legal or civil at this late stage. The reason for the ID demand is so that they can hastle you for payment.

[lilofanta]

Thank you for all replies

 

Did they take the info with out your consent or did you allow them to take the info?

 

They also took a copy of my National Insurance Card as they believed my I.D was fake and wanted something else with my name on it - stupid I know. Is there any information they can get from my NI Number?

 

If they took it without your permission then lodge a complaint with ICO. You can also write to Primark saying that is what you will be doing.

 

The manager asked me if I had any other identification on me, I explained I had no photo identification but my NI card had my name on it and showed him it, he then snatched it from my hand and disappeared for ten minutes with my drivers license and NI card. Does the fact I was willing to show him the card (but definitely not willing to allow him to copy it) suggest permission? ):

 

This is another money making [problem] similar to Parking Charge Notices, personally I would completely ignore it. CAB have highlighted this [problem] in the past. Remember it would be extremely difficult if not impossible for any company top raise any type of action whether legal or civil at this late stage. The reason for the ID demand is so that they can hastle you for payment.

If I ignore the letters and it is handed to a debt collection agency do you know if this will affect my credit rating? Obviously I'm 19 and have plans to be able to have a mortgage etc and don't want something such as this negatively impacting my credit rating. If it does have an effect will there be any information of the payment they demanded and that it was for alleged shoplifting? I know some companies now do a credit check and although I am in full-time employment at the moment if I decide to move on I don't want it to impact my career choices.

 

I consider myself to be a fairly switched on (when not walking blindly walking out of a shop without having paid for something) bright girl and so I am perhaps better prepared to deal with this than a 14 year old (although the manager and security guard were convinced I was 16, leading me to believe that's why they picked me up - easy target) and I really sympathise with young people and families that the RLP are taking advantage of.

 

It's disgusting they think their bullying tactics and empty threats are acceptable let alone attempt to claim they are a respectable business “passionate in our belief that we are helping the community by going after the ‘soft’ criminals who are often seen as lower priority by the police”.

Edited May 12, 2011 by lilofanta

[Crocdoc]

It most certainly will not impact on your credit rating, as for debt collectors becoming involved, you simply write and tell them that you have no intention of paying and are fully prepared to defend any subsequent action, thus the issue is in dispute. As I said before there are comparisons between the actions of these security comapnies and private parking companies. WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE PENALTY CHARGES.

[caledfwlch]

CCTV never seems to be on or in place in these "security offices" maybe if young girls start claiming the Guard "touched them" it will stop this stupidity. Especially if they perform a search without permission - since providing the CCTV to disprove "touching" would drop them in the hot water for the search.

[cups]

Hi

 

They are effectively falsely imprisoning you. They have no legal right to detain you except where they call the police. I would say to anyone to refuse to go to a Security Office and stay in the middle of the store!! It will show their customers how badly they treat innocent people !

 

It is an outrage that they think this is right. If this ever happened to me then l would call the police there and then. I would seriously consider making an allegation of false imprisonment, keeping you 2 hours is not acceptable and not justified, as for powers of search and seizure they have none!! So taking your NI card and keeping a copy is again unacceptable.

 

I would not pay any fine that they think that they can erroneously level at you, they chose to unlawfully imprison you.

 

Cups