Welcome Finance PPI and Mr Z ** SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME **

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by steven4064

£20103.82 paid off as 180 payments of £298.07 gives a monthly interest rate of 1.35% and an APR of 17.5% (using DulaCalc).

 

If your first payment was January 2004, you have made 86 payments totalling £25634.02 and you settlement figure is £16125.25 including a statutory rebate of £11893.33 (again using DualCalc). Rule of 78 is illegal now.

I showed this in post #51

 

 

 

Payment is 298.07 x 180 months.

 

Which one is correct, or is it both?

 

Total Loan Amount = £20103.82 (15,000 + PPI , MIF, & Acceptance Fee)

Total Amount Payable = £53652.60

Total Charge for Credit = £33548.78

Period Rate = 1.35%

Annual interest Rate = 16.20%

Annual Percentage Rate = 17.5% (APR)

 

 

 

Total Credit Amount = £18218.82 (£15,000 + £3218.82 Insurances)

Total Amount Payable = £53652.60

Total Charge for Credit = £35433.78 ( includes £1885.00 MIF & Acceptance Fee)

Period Rate = 1.53%

Annual Interest Rate = 18.36%

Annual Percentage Rate = 19.98%

 

Stevens figures tally with mine on the total loan. To get the 19.98% APR as shown on the agreement, it must be calculated on the "credit" only and not the charges for credit. So legally speaking, which is the correct method?

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out how they come up with a figure of £379.96 interest being applied in month 1 prior to any payments/credits or other fees/debits being made. The only way I can get that amount as a first interest application is to use an APR of 22.68%......not as important in the bigger picture I suppose, but I would certainly like to know what formula they are using.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Attached is my second response to Welcomes PPI offer. I havent received a reply since my previous response 2 weeks ago. Can someone have a look and let me know if anything needs ammending?

 

 

Attached Files

• PPIResponse2a.pdf (90.3 KB, 5 views)
  

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

dx100uk

site team

 

 

great letter

id use statutory

interest

though not simple [wording]

 

i would not even be looking down the route of arguing about the cca.

there is a clear financial link.

 

though this is not my strong point.

 

as for the MIF

 

pers i'd not argue about that either.

go for it!

let the idiots argue later.

 

its a shame postggj cant pop in for 2mins.

 

dx

 

 

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

BEBOBEBO

 

 

Originally Posted by MrZ

I showed this in post #51

 

Payment is 298.07 x 180 months.

 

Which one is correct, or is it both?

 

Total Loan Amount = £20103.82 (15,000 + PPI, MIF, & Acceptance Fee)

Total Amount Payable = £53652.60

Total Charge for Credit = £33548.78

Period Rate = 1.35%

Annual interest Rate = 16.20%

Annual Percentage Rate = 17.5% (APR)

 

 

Total Credit Amount = £18218.82 (£15,000 + £3218.82 Insurances)

Total Amount Payable = £53652.60

Total Charge for Credit = £35433.78 ( includes £1885.00 MIF & Acceptance Fee)

Period Rate = 1.53%

Annual Interest Rate = 18.36%

Annual Percentage Rate = 19.98%

 

Stevens figures tally with mine on the total loan. To get the 19.98% APR as shown on the agreement, it must be calculated on the "credit" only and not the charges for credit. So legally speaking, which is the correct method?

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out how they come up with a figure of £379.96 interest being applied in month 1 prior to any payments/credits or other fees/debits being made. The only way I can get that amount as a first interest application is to use an APR of 22.68%......not as important in the bigger picture I suppose, but I would certainly like to know what formula they are using.

 

 

 

For me i would say the top one is correct in what has been calculated.

 

180 months @ 298.07

Total payable = 53653.15

 

But i work out monthly rate to be 1.26 this is 16.20/12

APR is very complicated an i dont have an APR calulator but i just go by the AIR as thats how welcome work out the interest charged and not by using the APR.

 

 

As for the MIF until i can see evidence of this being reclaimed i would have to go with the fact that it is an insurance that they can add and they du plus charge interest. Along with many others I have already questioned this in my fos complaint. fos have also advised me that they can charge on the agreements wether its regulated by the CCA or not. As i said before please point me to a thread where some has had this refunded. I will be happy to see evidence of this.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

postggj

 

 

simple answer

 

MIF is a fee the debtor pays incase there is a shortfall on the loan

 

this fee is an insurance policy/product

 

you paid for it so ask welcome for the insurance policy.

 

i can tell you now there will be none

 

it goes into welcomes own pot under WELCOME ELITE BROKERS

 

YOU NEED TO BE ASKING WELCOME WHO THIS MONEY WAS PAID TO AND DEMAND PROOF VIA ANPOLICY NUMBER AND DATE AND WHO THIS FEE WAS PAID TO

 

ILL LAY EVEN MONEY NORWICH UNION/AVIVA

 

 

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by dx100uk

great letter

id use statutory interest though not simple [wording]

 

i would not even be looking down the route of arguing about the cca.

there is a clear financial link.

 

though this is not my strong point.

 

as for the MIF

 

pers i'd not argue about that either.

go for it!

let the idiots argue later.

 

its a shame postggj cant pop in for 2mins.

 

dx

 

 

Thanks I'll change out the wording. I'll be addressing the MIF with them separately.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by BEBOBEBO

For me i would say the top one is correct in what has been calculated.

 

180 months @ 298.07

Total payable = 53653.15

 

But i work out monthly rate to be 1.26 this is 16.20/12

APR is very complicated an i dont have an APR calulator but i just go by the AIR as thats how welcome work out the interest charged and not by using the APR.

 

 

As for the MIF until i can see evidence of this being reclaimed i would have to go with the fact that it is an insurance that they can add and they du plus charge interest. Along with many others I have already questioned this in my fos complaint. fos have also advised me that they can charge on the agreements wether its regulated by the CCA or not. As i said before please point me to a thread where some has had this refunded. I will be happy to see evidence of this.

 

 

 

If and when I hear nything back regarding MIF I will definitely post it up. This seems to be one way that Welcome are fleecing and arent being held to account for it.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

 

 

Originally Posted by postggj

simple answer

 

MIF is a fee the debtor pays incase there is a shortfall on the loan

 

this fee is an insurance policy/product

 

you paid for it so ask welcome for the insurance policy.

 

i can tell you now there will be none

 

it goes into welcomes own pot under WELCOME ELITE BROKERS

 

YOU NEED TO BE ASKING WELCOME WHO THIS MONEY WAS PAID TO AND DEMAND PROOF VIA ANPOLICY NUMBER AND DATE AND WHO THIS FEE WAS PAID TO

 

ILL LAY EVEN MONEY NORWICH UNION/AVIVA

 

 

 

I am going to be dealing with this in my next round of letters. If it is insurance, is it optional? If its insurance, where the policy info? If its not insurance what is is for? These and a few other questions will be put forward to to them.

 

I have to receive my SAR (they still have time), so I may wait until I have evrything before I proceed. Until then I am claiming my PPI and trying to work out how they charged so much interest in month 1. Its my contention that by adding the inflated interest so early in the loan that it has artificially raised my balance and all interest applied since then. I dont know if that will be worth anything but I'm going to try.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

I have done a registry search and discovered there is no charge on my property for this secured loan. I did sign a legal charge document when the loan was taken out. Welcome have sent me a copy of this as well...there is no date on it though. Is there anything I can do to prevent them from registering the charge with the land registry should they discover the charge isnt there?

 

 

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

BEBOBEBO

 

 

Originally Posted by MrZ

I have done a registry search and discovered there is no charge on my property for this secured loan. I did sign a legal charge document when the loan was taken out. Welcome have sent me a copy of this as well...there is no date on it though. Is there anything I can do to prevent them from registering the charge with the land registry should they discover the charge isnt there?

 

 

 

Check to see if it was registered under the name of Progressive Finance.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

 

Originally Posted by BEBOBEBO

Check to see if it was registered under the name of Progressive Finance.

 

 

 

No. Nothing at all, only my mortgage holder and a charge from Howard Cohen relating to a CCJ that I knew nothing of! I'm dealing with that separately.

 

There's nothing there at all from Welcome or Progressive or anything else. After seeing this I spoke to a gentleman at the rigistry just to double check I hadnt missed a page or entry. He agreed, there is nothing from them.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

I want to post an answer I got to one of my own questions for the benefit of others reading this thread.

 

I spoke to 3 solicitors and asked, what if anything, can I do to prevent the charge being registered again. All three gave various responses. None of the responses stated clearly that I could prevent this, and all invited me to make an appointment at their standard rate to discuss. I declined any appointments. I then spoke to the land registry. My question to them was, if the charge was placed in 2004 and later removed/discharged, could that company or their agent come again and place the charge. The initial answer was yes. I then asked would I be notified and given oppertunity to object? The answer was No, the signature on the form would be seen as my consent and no notice given. I then enquired about the amount of time that had passed siince the consent was given on the form (was a statute of limitations in effect), and if the charge had since been discharged, should it not be considered as a new charge? I was asked to leave my number so confirmation could be made with a senior manager.

 

I then received a call back, within 5 minutes, stating that in fact if the charge had been discharged, as it had, any other request would be treated as a new charge and I would be notified and given the oppertunity to object. Further because of the amount of time from the signing of the original form, that it would be rejected by the land registry and an updated form would need to be provided. So in summary, they can not apply the charge once again without my consent. I asked for this in writing, but because it was internal information it was not possible. I was told howver to rest assured this was the case and general practice guidance can be found on the website in PG's 29 & 31.

 

Now, and more importantly, it seems as though my secured loan (which is in dsipute for non complaince with my CCA) is no longer a secured loan, but rather an unsecured loan.

 

Any ideas on how this affects me and any potential action I may wish to pursue?

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Have a look at the letter I received today.

 

SAR_Reply_Edited.pdf

 

A couple of things to note on this one. First it stated they sent my SAR via recorded delivery. I removed the date in the letter, but the date they state it was sent is approaching 2 weeks ago. I have yet to receive anything from them.

 

Second, they have failed to respond to my CCA request. I recently sent a letter basically stating until they provide me with the information in the request, my account is in dispute.

 

Third, in this reply to my SAR request, they have stated "In your recent letter you have requested information such as commission and broker details. As this is not the customer's personal data, we will not be issuing those details."

 

This is curious, as no where at anytime in any of my correspomdence with Welcome, have I mentioned anything remotely relating to commissions or brokers. Seems to me they may either be watching these forums, or at the very least getting inundated with letters asking about brokers fees and commissions etc.

 

I am still awaiting their final answer regarding my PPI compensation. They admitted mis selling, but have not agreed how to compensate yet. It was my intention to start enquiry relating to additonal fees. It seems they are now ahead of the game in that regard.

 

Question: I know I mentioned specifically insurance documents in my SAR, the CCA also states documents referred to in the agreement should be included as well. So how do I approach them if these items are not included in the information they have yet to send? For example PPI, LIFECARE, MEDICARE, and MIF are all isted on the agreement as charges. Shouldnt both the SAR and CCA have documents regarding these included as well?

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

The Welcome forum has gone very quiet. Not sure if thats a good thing or bad thing? At any rate I am posting an update and also a couple of new questions.

 

Update - Since sending my my account in dispute letter upon the expiration of the 12+2 days, I havent had any response from Welcome. Today howevr in the post I got letter from Welcome about a complaint. The COMP number they have referenced is a new one and does not match any references from previous correspondence. It also says that they are writing in regard to my complain received on ___. Yes the date is blank. There is no date, so I have no idea what complaint they are referring to.

 

At the moment the issues I have that are still unresolved with them are the PPI claim, the SAR not yet complied with, the CCA request not yet complied with. I sent them a letter demanding my PPI refund be made in cash and not applied to arrears (which I dispute) and I have sent the account in dispute letter mentioned above.

 

Now my questions. I have no idea what Welcome are up to, but following my dispute I did not make my monthly payment. This has been very helpful to me as I have been able to use that money to pay down other more important debts. However after some thought, I feel I need to make a goodwill payment every month until a final resolution of ALL my isssues is reached. Is £1.00 goodwill each month sufficient? I dont want to be seen as trying to avoid my debts, but I honestly feel I dont owe them any more money untuil the issues of PPI, MIF, Brokers fees, etc have all been sorted. I have been paying these so and so's for 7 and a half years and they claim I still owe them 25k+ on an original loan of 20k.

 

Second question. I would like to make my goodwill payment, whatever the suggested amount is, by standing order. I dont want to phone them to ask for the details for a few reasons. Therefore I would like to request the details for the standing order by letter. Can someone help me draft a smple letter regarding this? I know its simple request, but I dont want to commit myself to something in writing by mentioning a specific amount, and I dont want to give them any wriggle room with my request. I have a feeling they are likely to respond to my request saying they dont accept standing orders and want me to set up a direct debit or some other nonsense.

 

Third question. I want to begin drafting a letter regarding all the fees they have applied:

 

Fees

Mortage Indemnity Fee

Acceptance Fee

Conversion/Default Fee

Capitalisation (Not contractual interest - smaller unexplained amounts)

Principal Debit Adj (Why are they adjusting my balance?)

Letter

telephone call Outgoing

Unpaid DD/Cheque Fee

Outside Calls

Reject CR/DR Card Payment Fee

Default Sum Fee Interest

 

As I am unsure how to appraoch the MIF at the moment I want to keep it separate from the rest of the fees I am claiming back. I have seen template letters for fee claiom to banks for current accounts, also one for mortgages. This is a secured loan, which some have suggested is in fact a mortgage, although not a first charge mortgage. Can someone point me to a template or sample letter for this types of fees claim? Failing that could somoen help me draft a letter? This is Welcome after all and typical letter for fees may not be suitable.

 

Thanks everyone.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

I was reading the article on the front page about taking PPI claims to court here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-PPI-money-now

 

But I have to admit, I am very hesitant to go down the court route. The total value of the claim is £9300.00, so well outside the limit of small claims. The cost to initiate proceedings is bad enough, heaven forbid I cock it up and end up paying even more in costs.

 

If it werent for the inherent risk of having to pay their costs, I might well be very tempted to take them to court. Not to mention they may run out of money to pay the claim before its all said and done, then I am out of pocket for even more. Not sure if it helps that they have admitted in two separate letters to having mis-sold the insurance. Initially I had every intention of taking them to court, but given what I have read about some experiences of others on the forum, I'm not convinced that risking the potential cost is a good idea.

 

Does anyone know if a claims management company or a no win no fee solicitor can, and would be willing to take the claim on at this point? I have done most of the leg work, so I would think they might...I dunno..and I havent apprached the MIF and other charges yet.

 

What to do, what to do?

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

steven4064

site team

 

The chances are that it would never get to court. You might be hesitant to go down the court route but Welcome are terrified. Also, with PPI you probably have a strong case and CAG will help you to not "cock it up". Your decision though.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Prudence

Hi Mr Z, just read through your posts and sorry this is not very constructive but just wanted to sympathise with you! You have worked so hard and put so much time & effort in to try and bring justice yet this **** seems to get its way whatever wrong it has done, whatever crime it commits and has committed. All the 'powers that be' seem to be in collusion with it, all working together to keep us firmly under the foot. Or am I just feeling negative today?

 

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

steven4064

site team

 

 

In another neck of the woods, I have them on the ropes over PPI and secret commissions. Ask them for a copy of the underwriting sheet associated with your account - it will prove that they made a massive profit which, as insurance agent, they should have declared. They won't give it to you but you could take them to court and get a court order for it.

 

Even without that, they are on a hiding to nothing over PPI - they mis-sold it massively and they know it, the fos know it and CAG knows it

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by steven4064

The chances are that it would never get to court. You might be hesitant to go down the court route but Welcome are terrified. Also, with PPI you probably have a strong case and CAG will help you to not "cock it up". Your decision though.

 

 

 

 

 

I want this to go to court. I feel that may be the only real possibilty of getting 100% of what they owe me. They are trying to under compensate me for the PPI to the tune of £2300.00.

 

Aside from the PPI there is roughly an additonal £4000.00 for charges and contract interest on the charges. I havent started my claim for charges as yet though.

 

The first hurdle is pulling the initial fee together for the PPI claim. My understanding is based on the amount of the claim the fee is £245. Apparently my annual income is too high to get an exemption, although with my other debts and 4 children, I dont have that to spare at the moment, hence the idea that a new win no fee option may be something to consider.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by steven4064

In another neck of the woods, I have them on the ropes over PPI and secret commissions. Ask them for a copy of the underwriting sheet associated with your account - it will prove that they made a massive profit which, as insurance agent, they should have declared. They won't give it to you but you could take them to court and get a court order for it.

 

Even without that, they are on a hiding to nothing over PPI - they mis-sold it massively and they know it, the fos know it and CAG knows it

 

 

You're correct, they have already written to say thy wont provide that info. I want to claim the MIF which is in the same vein of insurance/commissions.

 

They have admited mis-selling...twice in writing. They just arent offering the full amount. The total claim is for roughly £9500.00 they are offering £7,800.00. Of that amount roughly £3300.00 is cash and interest paid. They are offering £1200.00. I've already given them two "final demands" and lba's. I feel in a bit of a bind. I cant keep making idle threats of court. I feel I either need to accept what they are offering or try to sell my soul for the court fee to get this sorted.

 

If I dont, I may stand little or no chance of claiming the other charges. At the end of the day, I feel I owe them not a penny more, and they owe ME now.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

 

Originally Posted by Prudence

Hi Mr Z, just read through your posts and sorry this is not very constructive but just wanted to sympathise with you! You have worked so hard and put so much time & effort in to try and bring justice yet this **** seems to get its way whatever wrong it has done, whatever crime it commits and has committed. All the 'powers that be' seem to be in collusion with it, all working together to keep us firmly under the foot. Or am I just feeling negative today?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I completey agree with you. And it seems the fos and other government bodies arent really looking out for the consumer. As citizenb states in his article, it may be that court is the only way that a consumer such as myself has any chance of justice. Unfortunately, because of the financial state the greedy lenders have contributed to, we are often unable able to access the courts due to lack of funds or experience. So unless we can and wish to pay solicitors or some other firm wanting 25% or more, how realistic is our chance at justice and fairness?

 

I am not totally saddened, as I feel I have been somewhat justified in that they have at least admited the mis-sale. Now I have to be very creative in trying to get whats fair and just.

 

Thanks for the support!

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

I've just had a friend offer to help me with the court fees, but they arent much better off than me. We are together trying to scrape the monies needed. As mentioned earlier my total insurance claim is ballpark 9k, of which cash due back is ballpark 3k. Having looked at the fees list on the ex50 form, for money claims ranging £5000.01 to £15,000.00 the fee is £245. Do I have this right? Is the amount based on the total value of the claim or just the cash amount I am claiming? Is there a way to get this application to court in a less expensive way? I mean could I perhaps complete an

N244

form and then see what procedure the judge sets?

 

My thought behind the question is that if i can get the court to accept an application at a lower fee, that when Welcome get the papers, this may be enough to kick them in their pants to pay up???

 

I've been told the people will help with this....so I am asking for the help.

 

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

steven4064

site team

 

N244s are not the way to go - they cost money anyway. If you are not working, you may be exempt from fees

.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

 

Originally Posted by steven4064

N244s are not the way to go - they cost money anyway. If you are not working, you may be exempt from fees.

 

 

 

 

 

I am working, but according to the fees exemption table I dont qualify, even with 4 children. I get child tax credit so that combined with my salary is apparently too much to qualify. I am just double checking my maths to be sure, because based on my monthly income/expenditure I clearly have no disposable income.

 

 

EDIT: Apparently I can claim my secured loans and mortage from another property as an expense. Having done this, the remission fees table says my fee will be 65.00. I have this to hand and wish to file my claim and remission application this afternoon or tomorrow.

 

 

HELP ANYONE?

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

I am now completing my claim form and my fees remission form. Can anyone confirm that I should list the defendant details as:

 

WELCOME FINANCIAL SERVICES LTD

MERE WAY

RUDDINGTON FIELDS BUSINESS PARK

RUDDINGTON

NOTTINGHAM

NG11 6NZ

 

Or is there a different name or address that should be listed as defendant?

 

Just to double check, I should be using the standard N1 form, and not the N1 part7 correct?

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB