Welcome Finance PPI and Mr Z ** SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME **

[MrZ]

I have been trying to find the appropriate address to send a PPI claim form to Welcome Finance. Does anyone have a known good address for this?

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[MrZ]

I have found this address:

 

WELCOME FINANCIAL SERVICES LTD

MERE WAY

RUDDINGTON FIELDS BUSINESS PARK

RUDDINGTON

NOTTINGHAM

NG11 6NZ

 

If anyone knows of a better address please let me know.

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Originally Posted by

dw1552

Thats the one. Head it for Compliance Department and send recorded delivery.

 

MrZ

 

 

 

Cheers for that. Will do.

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Hello again CAGers,

I have submitted a PPI claim with Welcome Finance. After several letters stating they were investigating, I finally received a letter stating that my PPI claim was upheld and that I am due compensation. Roughly totalling £7,000.00. Of the total due back, roughly £3,000.00 has been paid by me, and the remaining was the amount written into the loan that has yet to be paid. These figures are provided by Welcome.

 

Now approximately 2 years ago, after very agressive treatment from Welcome (they would turn up at my door all hours asking for a payment, phone calls, etc), a reduced payment was agreed. This was after I stated that the loan was given jointly, and since the second party has since left the country, I alone was unable to pay the full monthly payment. This was something toward helpfulness from Welcome, or so I thought.

 

Back to present day and the compensation award from Welcome. They are proposing that the full amount including interest on the money i have paid toward PPI to date be applied to my ARREARS! Arrears? What arrears I say. So I phone them only to learn that the difference between the "original" payment and my agreed reduce payment has been adding up all these months and applied to arrears. So essentially even though I have been making an agreed payment every single month for roughly 2 years now, I learn that my account is in arrears. I have had notice of arrears, and the statement of account that was sent to me prior to the New Year, which shows all of my payments, does not indicate any arrears.

 

It is my understanding, that Welcome do have the right to apply the compensation to any arrears. My position is can they do this based on the fact I was not aware of any arrears? I also was not aware that the agreed reduced payment from 2 years ago would be applied to arrears each month. I did not sign anything regarding this. There was no paperwork, as it was agreed over the phone, by an individual who is no longer with Welcome.

 

I have 14 days to accept or reject the offer of compensation by Welcome, which stipulates the payment be applied toward arrears. So my question is, do I have any grounds to object? If so whats the best way to go about it?

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Dustyd

Hi Mr Z

 

Is that the Brideshead Project by any chance. Offer letter taking 10 days to arrive, arrives then on a Saturday, with 14 days to respond in a second class envelope, which would miss the deadline - sound familiar?

 

If I were you I'd take them to court as the mis-sold

PPI

and the debt are 2 separate matters

 

PM me if you need more info

 

Cheers

 

Dusty

 

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by

MrZ

Hello again CAGers,

 

I have submitted a

PPI

claim with

Welcome

Finance. After several letters stating they were investigating, I finally received a letter stating that my

PPI

claim was upheld and that I am due compensation. Roughly totalling £7,000.00. Of the total due back, roughly £3,000.00 has been paid by me, and the remaining was the amount written into the loan that has yet to be paid. These figures are provided by

Welcome

.

 

Now approximately 2 years ago, after very agressive treatment from

Welcome

(they would turn up at my door all hours asking for a payment,

phone calls

, etc), a reduced payment was agreed. This was after I stated that the loan was given jointly, and since the second party has since left the country, I alone was unable to pay the full monthly payment. This was something toward helpfulness from

Welcome

, or so I thought.

 

Back to present day and the compensation award from

Welcome

. They are proposing that the full amount including

interest

on the money i have paid toward

PPI

to date be applied to my ARREARS! Arrears? What arrears I say. So I phone them only to learn that the difference between the "original" payment and my agreed reduce payment has been adding up all these months and applied to arrears. So essentially even though I have been making an agreed payment every single month for roughly 2 years now, I learn that my account is in arrears. I have had notice of arrears, and the statement of account that was sent to me prior to the New Year, which shows all of my payments, does not indicate any arrears.

 

It is my understanding, that

Welcome

do have the right to apply the compensation to any arrears. My position is can they do this based on the fact I was not aware of any arrears? I also was not aware that the agreed reduced payment from 2 years ago would be applied to arrears each month. I did not sign anything regarding this. There was no paperwork, as it was agreed over the phone, by an individual who is no longer with

Welcome

.

 

I have 14 days to accept or reject the offer of compensation by

Welcome

, which stipulates the payment be applied toward arrears. So my question is, do I have any grounds to object? If so whats the best way to go about it?

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

Posted by MrZ

 

I've just spoken to Welcome. I spoke to the person who normally takes my payments. I asked, "Hypothetically speaking, if i were able to pay off all the arrears that have resulted from the difference of the reduced payment, what happens then? I would be in the same position and will never be out of debt." I explain that the loan was given based on two incomes and that is no longer the case. I also satated that I know they can not re-write the loan as they are no longer entitled to lend. The person then replied by saying well if you were able to pay off the arrears, we could see what can be done. I said, well tell me now what can be done. The reply came that there was nothign that can be done. ARGGH!

 

Anyone have any advice on what I can do about this whole mess?

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

tamthetaper

 

in the same position as yourself

i refused there offer last week

 

didnt agree. that after they paid arrears

they would then pay off current loan

 

there figures were wrong

i put a letter in with it see what happens

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

winston73

MrZ. They have to give you a statement every year, also they have to give a statement every six months if the account is in arrears.... I was only looking at this piece of legislation today ! and there are penalties involved if they do not comply....

 

Can't remember which act it was, but i'll try and dig it out for you..........

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

winston73

 

 

Consumer credit act 1974 Sums in arrears and default sums

 

1.

 

86B.Notice of sums in arrears under fixed-sum credit agreements etc.

2.

 

86C.Notice of sums in arrears under running-account credit agreements

3.

 

86D.Failure to give notice of sums in arrears

4.

 

86E.Notice of default sums

5.

 

86F.interest on default sums

I've not checked for any ammendments so you may need to check yourself. You can find out more at Legislation.gov.uk also scour the OFT website as well. i hope this helps....

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by

winston73

MrZ. They have to give you a statement every year, also they have to give a statement every six months if the account is in arrears.... I was only looking at this piece of legislation today ! and there are penalties involved if they do not comply....

 

Can't remember which act it was, but i'll try and dig it out for you..........

Thats what I thought, then again they could easily say they sent me someting and it got lost in the post or something. Is the burden of proof on me or them to proove what was provided or not provided. I was shocked to say the least. I was thinking I was current only to find out each month my arrears increases!

 

 

 

As I said the last stement I received in Oct 2010 and shows activity for the year Oct 2009- Oct 2010 and there is no mention or any other indication of arrears.

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

 

Originally Posted by

winston73

My guess is that they have to prove they sent the statements to you. Thats why when dealing with these **** , the

advice

is to get a paper trail and send everything recorded so you have proof that it was sent.

 

The best thing to do is send them a

SAR

and get everything they hold on you , transactions, statements the lot. They have 40 days to comply and you will be able to see what they have done to your account..

 

With regards to this 14 day limit for you to accept their offer, i am not sure what will happen if you refuse it but i would not accept it at the moment as all that compo your entitled to is just going to get swallowed up through your arrears. Arrears that you knew nothing about because they failed to inform you through the proper channels, no letters and no statements...

 

It might be a good idea to send them a letter asking them why they sent you no notification about your account being in arrears and not sending you any statements within the last 2 years. You might want to quote cca 1974 86d as well. Imo sending a statement 3 months ago to cover 1 year out of the 2 is unacceptable and falls foul of their obligations.

 

This is just my opinion MrZ, Maybe someone else could back this up or correct me on this, but they have not gone about this the right way.....

 

 

 

I think this is the way I am going to have to proceed. If you happen to know of any similar case regarding the notice of arrears and the burden of proof, that would be great. If I submit an

SAR

, that could take some time, and may or may not help in my case. Having dealt with

Welcome

for some time now, I am almost certain they will argue that they sent notice. However the only statement they have sent makes absolutley no mention or indication of arrears.

 

My second question then goes to the reduced payment agreement. I find it hard to believe that they could be adding the difference to an arrears over such a long time and never make any attempts to collect the arrears or re-instate the full payment amount. Is this disputable since there was no agreement made regarding any difference in the payment going to arrears?

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

I will try to be as brief as possible. I have an existing secured loan with Welcome Finance. I have made a claim for PPI. Welcome replied and said that I was due compensation as PPI had been missold. They proposed that the PPI be applied to arrears. Arrears that I was unaware of....Apparently when I had agreed a reduced monthly payment just over 2 years ago, Welcome began applying the difference from the original payment amount and the reduced payment into an ongoing arrears. (The reduced payment was agreed because the original loan was a joint loan, and my ex has since disappeared, and I am no longer able to meet the original payment amount on my income alone).

My position was that PPI was included as part of the orignal payment. Since PPI should not have been included, this means the actual payment amounts were incorrect. I am now being told I have arrears amounting almost precisely to the amount of the PPI compensation due...Curious I know.

I asked what would happen should I apply the compensation to the arrears? Because thereafter I would still only be able to make the reduced payment, and this would again result in ongoing arrears. I was told by Welcome that they could not "re-write" the loan as they are no longer lending.

I have written a letter requesting a new payment schedule based on the the mis sold PPI as this would certainly reduce my monthly payment amount. I also reiterated that I do not believe I can be in arrears based on an incorrect monthly payment that should not have included PPI. This, in addition to the fact that there was never any notice of arrears prior to my claim for PPI. I have received no response from Welcome regarding this.

What I want to do now is either stop paying altogether, or perhaps make a small "goodwill" payment whilst the account is in dispute. This is based on the fact that they have been unable or unwilling to provide me with a new payment amount. So my question is, Is this legal? Can I withhold payment on a disputed account? Can I with hold altogether or must I make a minumum payment? If payment is required, what is the minimum amount allowable?

As I said earlier, I have been making the reduced payments for just over 2 years now without any missed or late payments.

I would like to write a letter regarding this in the next day or two, and any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

rebel11

site team

 

 

Thread moved. Have you sought Contractual

interest

with regards to the

PPI

payment you made? Could amount to quite a bit, don't let them work it out for you.

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by rebel11

Thread moved. Have you sought Contractual interest with regards to the PPI payment you made? Could amount to quite a bit, don't let them work it out for you.

 

 

 

 

 

The interest they have offered is 8%. I am unable to determine an amount to dispute or confirm the amount provided by Welcome as I have yet to receive the SAR info. But on face value it seems to be pretty close to what I expected.

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Hello again,

 

Welcome

Finance, the bain of my life, will not stop calling and turning up at my house. I have searched the forums for a template that will request correspondence in writing/post only. I have been unable to find one. Can anyone help me with this or direct me to one that already exists? Are there any legal provisions I can site that show I am entitled to insist on contact only in writing?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

 

Originally Posted by

firstship

Mr Z go into the site LIBRARY and on the right hand side what you are looking for is under the heading Harrasment Letters

 

regards FS

 

 

 

Found it...thank you FS!

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

firstship

 

MrZ you are

welcome

,hope it all works for you,remember you can put a block on specific phone numbers,takes a little bit of time,but worth it

 

Regards FS

 

Edited May 9, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

---Quote (Originally by Sand-Dancer0191)---

since Oct 2008 the creditor must provide a yearly

statement and also regular Notice of Arrears (six monthly)

without which they are not entitled to enforce any debt,

and lose the right to claim any arrears that may have

become due during the period of non-compliance.

---End Quote---

 

Can you point me to any legislation regarding this?

Specifically the loss of the right to claim any arrears

that may have become due during the period of

non-compliance?

 

Thank you

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

MrZ

I've been using the weekend to go over the claculations

for my claim against Welcome. I am leaning toward claiming

contract interest (16.20% compounded) as opposed to the

s69 interest (8% simple). Bear in mind I havent yet had

answers as to whether or not to try to claim the MIF and

other unfair charges together with my PPI/Insurance claim

for which I already have admission from Welcome of

mis-sale. Assuming I do try to claim for everything

altogether in one claim, below are my final calculations:

 

Insurance, MIF & Charges Already Paid..£5,062.19

Contract

Interest..................................£4,368.73

Total...................................................£9,430.92

 

As you can see by combining all the claims together I am

just over the small claims limits. Considering the

amount, the fact that I havent yet made a complaint to

Welcome for the MIF and unfair charges, I would like some

advice on how I should approach the claim.

 

I have intentions to send two letters off in the post

tomorrow to initiate my complaint for the charges and MIF.

I also intended to make my letters also serve as my LBA

for both. In other words something to the effect of:

 

"You have charged me unfairly for blah blah blah. You

have

14 days from receipt of this letter sent Signed For

Recorded Delivery to fully resolve the matter, otherwise

and without further notice to you, I will file a claim in

the county court, etc etc."

 

This would allow me a little time to fully work on my

claim and also cover the bases with regard to given notice

before action. I am also content to file claims for each

separate issue, but thought I might be able to get 3 birds

with one stone.

 

I would appreciate any feedback on this approach.

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[citizenB]

A new

amendment

has been made in case of failure to give notice of sums in arrears in CCA 1974. Section 11 CCA 2006inserts a new section - 86D - that sets out the consequences for a creditor or owner if he fails to give a notice as required by sections 86B or 86C.

 

If the creditor or owner fails to provide a notice of sums in arrears when required to do so, then during the period of his failure to provide the notice (i.e. from the date that it was required to be given until the end of the day on which it is eventually provided), he is not entitled to enforce the agreement. In addition,

 

The debtor or hirer is not liable to pay any

interest

that relates to the period of the creditor or owner’s failure,

 

Notice of default sums

Section 12 of CCA 2006 applies to situations where a debtor or hirer under a regulated agreement incurs a default sum.

 

A creditor or owner must give the debtor or hirer a notice in the specified form when a default sum becomes payable as a consequence of a breach of the agreement. For example, you hire a car for the duration of your

holiday

. There will often be a penalty sum payable if you incur a fine from using the car. The car-hire company might say this is to cover, for example, administration charges. Either way, certain sums are payable if you breach the agreement. Where this applies, the creditor must provide notice to the debtor, of the amount they must pay. This only applies where the default sum exceeds a specified amount.

 

Additionally, a creditor may only require a debtor to pay interest (in connection with a default sum) 28 days after the day the notice was given to the debtor. So if the creditor fails to give notice to the debtor then he can not enforce the agreement until notice is given.

 

“Default sum”

The term ‘default sum’ has been redefined in s

.18 CCA 2006.

“Default sum” now means: a sum payable by a debtor or hirer in connection with his breach of a regulated agreement (e.g. a charge imposed for late payment of an installment due under the agreement or a fee imposed for exceeding a credit limit on a credit card). A default sum does not include sums that, as a consequence of a breach of the agreement, become payable earlier than they otherwise would have done. Nor does it include interest.

 

Interest on default sums

Section 13 has been amended so that a creditor or owner may only require simple interest to be paid in respect of default sums payable by the debtor or hirer. This includes sums payable under noncommercial or small agreements.

 

Minimum 14 days after Default notices

The new minimum period after which a creditor or owner may take action (in respect of the agreement after having issued a default notice) is now 14 days. It used to be only 7 days. Section 14 CCA 2006amends section 88 of the 1974 Act to create this extension.

 

Additionally, under s87, a creditor or owner must give the debtor or hirer a default notice in the prescribed form if he wishes to:

-

terminate the agreement;

-

demand earlier payment of a sum;

-

recover possession of any goods or land;

-

treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred; or to

-

enforce any security

 

Section 88 is also amended to allow the Secretary of State to prescribe information in the default notice to include any matters relating to the agreement (e.g. information about whether the agreement includes a term providing for the charging of post-judgment interest).

and this is the legislation...

 

Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983.pdf

 

 

[citizenB]

MrZ, I am sorry, I was only able to reclaim a few posts from the cache. I am just about to pm all those people who have been helping you and ask them to pop back and see if they can fill in the gaps.

[MrZ]

Hi citizen,

 

Thanks for the effort. I think you have been able to repost the major points from the original thread. I am not too concerned about the missing items.

 

These things happen from time to time. I am happy to repost on any issue that needs clarifying.

[citizenB]

That is very generous of you MrZ. Thank you x

[MrZ]

Thanks for the info in post 21 re the legislation on arrears notification.

 

This prompts an obvious question. If a consumer were to rely on this, as a way to dispute the enforcement and the interest etc., with whom would the burden of proof lie.? Its very difficult to proove a negative. A consumer would have a difficult time prooving the arrears were not notified, particularly if the lender says it did notify and relies on an automated system or similar that indicates "something was sent"

 

If a SAR was made and in the data there is no record or copy of the notification, would that be sufficient?

 

My offer has a portion of the compensation going to clear arrears and interest that I dispute. Arrears I was never notified of.

 

Prior to my claim I received a statement which makes absolutely no mention of arrears. This statement is dated the month prior to my initial claim/complaint. When the admission of mis-sale was made and an offer to apply 100% of the compensation to the arrears, I objected. I wrote letters asserting I was never notified of arrears. After that all statements sent now show the arrears. The second offer made was to apply a portion to the arrears, and a smaller portion as a cash refund.

 

Based on no eveidence provided from Welcome of notification of arrears, and a statement issues a month prior to my claim, I fee I have the upper hand in disputing they properly notified me. The statement I refer to was for the entire year previous. And no where on that statement is any mention of any arrears. Now suddenly my statements show arrears!

 

BTW in case the thread hasnt been recovered, the arrears in question are mostly a result of a reduced payment, and the odd missed payment. An agreed payment I have been making for approx 2 years.

 

Edit:

Here is a copy of the statement to which I refer. I should note this is the FIRST statement I ever received from them. Aside from a DN back in 2004, I never received anything regarding arrears. They would always just call and harass on the phone, but nothing was ever sent in writing with regard to arrears.

WelcomeStatement_Oct2010.pdf

Edited May 10, 2011 by citizenB

[MrZ]

That is very generous of you MrZ. Thank you x

We're all in this fight together!