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hayley
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Hi Hayley

 

Ok I've had a look.

 

Firstly, trying to equate the APR as shown on the agreements with the rate shown on the statements is, as has been mentioned in a previous post, a complex thing and beyond what I can do for you at this time.

 

However, I don't think that is your major issue.

 

The interest you have been charged per the statements agrees with the rates shown on the statements to within an acceptable rounding difference and count of days used to calculate the interest. The calcs are made a bit trickier due to late payments etc but I am happy that the interest charges shown are correct for the balances shown on the accounts.

 

HOWEVER, there are things which you can claim against these loans.

 

First, the insurances. These only appear on the first loan and if they were mis-sold they should be claimed back together with the interest charged on them. This will have an impact on loan 2 because when loan 2 "absorbed" loan 1, it absorbed that part of loan 1 which was paying for the insurance. This means that part of your repayments on loan 2 were going towards the insurance in loan 1. This also has a knock on effect in loan 3 as well.

 

Secondly, the various charges they have put on the account are unlawful and can be claimed back. They appear to have captalised these charges and therefore charged you interest on them. This has the same effect whereby loan 2 is paying off unlawful charges and interest on loan1 and loan 3 is doing the same for loan 2.

 

I also don't think the acceptance fee should be included as part of the loan (loan 1) as it was not declared as part of the amount of credit. (It was though in loan 3).

 

The only way to establish exactly what the refund on these should be is to have the accounts reconstructed as though the insurances and charges were not applied. This won't be simple because not only do we have the charges, insurance and rollover into loans 2 & 3, but we also have late payments/extra payments by you to take into account.

 

I think there is enough here to refer the case to fos (with a formal complaint) who can order the lender to reconstruct the accounts and calculate the refund figure due.

 

We could spend hours on this calculation and still not get it right due to its complex nature.

 

I would be putting in a complaint to fos if I were you.

 

Hope this helps

 

ims

 

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Hi Hayley

 

Ok I've had a look.

 

Firstly, trying to equate the APR as shown on the agreements with the rate shown on the statements is, as has been mentioned in a previous post, a complex thing and beyond what I can do for you at this time.

 

However, I don't think that is your major issue.

 

The interest you have been charged per the statements agrees with the rates shown on the statements to within an acceptable rounding difference and count of days used to calculate the interest. The calcs are made a bit trickier due to late payments etc but I am happy that the interest charges shown are correct for the balances shown on the accounts.

 

HOWEVER, there are things which you can claim against these loans.

 

First, the insurances. These only appear on the first loan and if they were mis-sold they should be claimed back together with the interest charged on them. This will have an impact on loan 2 because when loan 2 "absorbed" loan 1, it absorbed that part of loan 1 which was paying for the insurance. This means that part of your repayments on loan 2 were going towards the insurance in loan 1. This also has a knock on effect in loan 3 as well.

 

Secondly, the various charges they have put on the account are unlawful and can be claimed back. They appear to have captalised these charges and therefore charged you interest on them. This has the same effect whereby loan 2 is paying off unlawful charges and interest on loan1 and loan 3 is doing the same for loan 2.

 

I also don't think the acceptance fee should be included as part of the loan (loan 1) as it was not declared as part of the amount of credit. (It was though in loan 3).

 

The only way to establish exactly what the refund on these should be is to have the accounts reconstructed as though the insurances and charges were not applied. This won't be simple because not only do we have the charges, insurance and rollover into loans 2 & 3, but we also have late payments/extra payments by you to take into account.

 

I think there is enough here to refer the case to fos (with a formal complaint) who can order the lender to reconstruct the accounts and calculate the refund figure due.

 

We could spend hours on this calculation and still not get it right due to its complex nature.

 

I would be putting in a complaint to fos if I were you.

 

Hope this helps

 

ims

 

IMS, Thank you so much although it has confused me even more , it doesn't take much though lol.

 

Do you suggest I write to welcome first to try and claim back the charges and insurance or go straight to the FOS? I dont really know if I could claim the insurances were misold, as with another company (citifinance) I managed to get the PPI refunded as it was payment protection if I was sick or had an accident, but I work for a LGA so get full pay for 6 months anyway. This insurance was differentwith Welcome it was for homecare and medicare so dont really have a good reason for why it could have been misold, also I am sure I may have used one of the homecare insurance once as my boiler was playing up

 

As far as you can see though all the figures look right?

 

Thanks again for all your help, much appreciated..

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Hi hayley

 

Yes, in my opinion the interest charged is in accordance with the rates stated on the statements.

 

Ok so maybe not the homecare but I'm pretty sure medicare is ppi by another name. It protects your payments if you are off work doesn't it?

 

What I would certainly do is treat the charges like a normal reclaim of charges. The process would be

 

1 Prepare a Schedule of Claim (SOC)

 

2 Send preliminary letter to Welcome with a copy of the SOC - give them 14 days

 

3 If no payment forthcoming send 7 day Letter Before Action

 

4 If no payment take them to court

 

First thing, have a read around the forums for reclaiming charges on loans - in the bank/finance sub forums. You will get a really good idea of what needs to be done.

 

With anything like this it is worth preparing a good background case with copies of everything in case you do need to go to court so this is best done by getting the preliminary stuff correct.

 

For the charges reclaim you need to treat these three loans as three individual cases

 

ims

 

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Hi hayley

 

Yes, in my opinion the interest charged is in accordance with the rates stated on the statements.

 

Ok so maybe not the homecare but I'm pretty sure medicare is ppi by another name. It protects your payments if you are off work doesn't it?

 

What I would certainly do is treat the charges like a normal reclaim of charges. The process would be

 

1 Prepare a Schedule of Claim (SOC)

 

2 Send preliminary letter to Welcome with a copy of the SOC - give them 14 days

 

3 If no payment forthcoming send 7 day Letter Before Action

 

4 If no payment take them to court

 

First thing, have a read around the forums for reclaiming charges on loans - in the bank/finance sub forums. You will get a really good idea of what needs to be done.

 

With anything like this it is worth preparing a good background case with copies of everything in case you do need to go to court so this is best done by getting the preliminary stuff correct.

 

For the charges reclaim you need to treat these three loans as three individual cases

 

ims

 

Ok thats great, I will start the ball rolling tomorrow. I think I will leave the PPi as I am sure Medicare was something like if you have an accident they pay you so much per night you were in hospital something like that.

 

I have reclaimed charges on a few other things in the past I may have even tried with Welcome without any success, but will have another go I will keep you posted.

 

Thanks again you have been a great help.

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You're welcome hayley

 

ims

 

Good Morning IMS

 

Can I just ask, would it be ok to use the bank charges spreadsheet to work out the charges and interest and also, should I put on the spreadsheet the interest on the charges they charged me, if that makes sense.

 

Cheers

 

Hayley

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Good Morning IMS

 

Can I just ask, would it be ok to use the bank charges spreadsheet to work out the charges and interest and also, should I put on the spreadsheet the interest on the charges they charged me, if that makes sense.

 

Cheers

 

Hayley

 

Hi hayley

 

Yes the bank charges sheet should be fine.

 

You claim the charge itself plus the interest at the rate they charged you.

 

ims

 

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  • 1 month later...

Good Morning

 

After some advice again. I sent the preliminary letter off to welcome concerning all the different charges and gave them 14 days to respond, I have not heard anything from them at all. I checked Royal Mail and it was signed for on 7 July. Do I send out another letter now or just put a claim in straight away? if so is it easy to do?

 

Many thanks

 

Hayley

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Hi hayley

 

So you've had no response from your first letter so now you do a 14 day Letter Before Action. This wil be the same as your first letter but headed "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" with an additional paragraph at the bottom saying that if they do not refund the charges within 14 days you will issue in court without further recourse to them.

 

Only threaten them with court if you are really going to go through with it. You will need to do some reading around the forums to get familiar with the process of reclaiming charges through court.

 

Regards

 

ims

 

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Hi hayley

 

So you've had no response from your first letter so now you do a 14 day Letter Before Action. This wil be the same as your first letter but headed "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" with an additional paragraph at the bottom saying that if they do not refund the charges within 14 days you will issue in court without further recourse to them.

 

Only threaten them with court if you are really going to go through with it. You will need to do some reading around the forums to get familiar with the process of reclaiming charges through court.

 

Regards

 

ims

 

 

Great thanks ims. I have issued a MCOL before for bank charges but was years ago, I remember it being quite straight forwrad but not sure if it has changed since. I have actually started filling in a mcol this morning for Welcome, I am definately going to take it all the way.

 

I have looked for the letter before action this morning as I was sure from years ago I sent another letter, but cannot seem to find it anywhere, could you point me in the right direction.

 

Many thanks for your help!

 

p.s. I have tried to click on your star but it will not let me for some reason?

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  • 3 weeks later...
Hi

 

I have received a letter off welcome saying that they will investigate my complaint and get back to me within 8 weeks, what should I do, wait for them to get back to me or file mcol?

 

Many thanks

 

Hayley

 

Hi Hayley

 

If you've done the preliminary letter and sent them the 14 day lba then when that 14 days is up you can issue.

 

Their 8 weeks is a delaying tactic that they hope you will accept.

 

You control the time scales don't forget.

 

Regards

 

ims

 

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  • 8 months later...

Hi all

 

I am after some advice AGAIN!

 

I am still trying to sort this issue out with Welcome, I received a letter back off them after sending the letter before action, they refunded me part of the charges, which I accepted as partial settlement. I still wanted them to reconstruct all three accounts though to take into consideration the partial refund they had given me. They ignored my request when I asked them to provide evidence that they had reconstructed the accounts.

 

I then sent off all the information to the FSA to see if they could order them to reconstruct the three accounts as IMS suggested. After taking 12 weeks to look into it a adjudicator has contacted me. He has asked me for

 

1. Evidence the fees and charges that have been applied to the loans held with the business were done so unlawfully;

 

2.Evidence the refund of the fees proposed by the business is less beneficial than a refund of interest that may have been incurred had the fees not been applied.

 

Since receiving this off a guy called Graham Harber at FSA, Welcome has offered to refund the remainder of the charges, I have declined them at present until they provide evidence that they have reconstructed the three accounts and a few questions I have outstanding about loan one. I replied to Graham Harbour answering question one, basically saying that they were obviously unlawful otherwise Welcome would not be refunding them, but I don't really know how to answer the second question because I don't know what he means? Can anyone help me out?

 

Many thanks

 

Hayley

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Hi

 

I think you mean fos rather then the FSA?

 

Welcome need to justify their charges...they won't be able to to. Charges levied must represent a genuine pre-estimate of the actual cost to them and if they cannot provide that then the charges are a penalty and are unlawful and so is any interest attributable to those charges.

 

fos don't get involved in lawful or unlawful and you may well still need to sue if you want the charges plus the interest back.

 

ims

 

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