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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Due in court on Wednesday for repossession hearing

999wills
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999wills

999wills

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Hi there new to the site so I hope someone can help me.

I have received a court order to appear over a repossession order for my house regarding arrears. I'm in a panic as I am well behind on the mortgage. I did arrange a repayment schedule with the lender which I couldn't keep up with. I have had my house for 13 years without missing a payment but over the last year work has died and I haven't properly worked for about 9 months. The problem is I was told I was in no position to claim anything as I was self employed and working. The problem is I had been waiting several months for payment of work only for the 3 main companies I worked for have gone under owing me. There is no way of tracing them as they have wound the companies up and have folded. Therefore I did bury my head in the sand for a while as this and family problems made me give up for a while. I have had the house valued and have the money to start a HIPS pack but my hearing is on wednesday and I don't know whether to continue with it. The house has equity totalling 125k if i sold it at market value. Surely they cannot take the house if I have that much equity in the building. Any advice will help me as like I say the hearing is wed and I'm panicking a bit now.

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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Hi there, I need some info before I can advise further.

 

Did you return the N11M defence form to the court?

 

Are you now earning and able to make payments towards the mortgage & arrears?

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999wills

999wills

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Believe it or not I had all my documents along with 2 large sports bags with all my clothes in stolen from my van in tesco's car park in edmonton. I was moving all my stuff to my g/f flat when i lost everything. Bank statements cheque books all my important paperwork gone. All i have is a new set of papers which were sent to me. Which include the witness statement on behalf of the claimant. I managed to get a loan from my family to pay some of my arrears. When I contacted them they advised me to go to court and state my situation. I haven't paid anything to them so far apart from a one off payment back in nov 08. I did arrange a repayment schedule with them but due to monies not being paid to me that was owed i couldn't pay it.I'm over 9k in arrears now. When i offered to pay off 5k of it and start payments again they said it was too late and I would have to attend the hearing.

Thanks for the swift reply. I've never been to court before or been in arrears so I'm very worried about this.

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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Hi there, if you've got £5k to pay towards the arrears then ideally you should pay it as it will help your case. If you don't pay it you need to take proof you have it and are willing to pay on Wednesday. We can do a witness statement for you to take to the court telling them they refused the £5k (the judge won't like that!).

 

However, you will need to be able to convince the court that you are able to make monthly payments going forward.

 

Is the mortgage in joint names?

Do you have any children?

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999wills

999wills

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Back in 2003 i divorced my then wife and took over the mortgage, buying her out in the process. I now have a 150k mortgage in my name but the house is valued at 275k. I have no children apart from my now g/f's daughter but I suppose the court will not look at her as my own even though we all feel she is. I have had the house valued as I am looking to sell and move on with my new family. The equity of course is intended to go towards our own family house. As soon as the property is sold then I will settle all debts in full but obviously I can't sell the house without a HIPS pack by law.I have had a lot of interest already in the property so I can't see it taking too long to sell it. I just want to get out of this mess and start a fresh. I really do appreciate your help Ell-enn

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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OK, get a statement showing the £5k in the bank. You say you have had interest in the house, is it with an estate agent - could you get proof you are trying to sell it?

 

As well as being able to pay the £5k can you show you are able to make monthly payments until the house is sold? You will need to complete a budget sheet to go with the witness statement and I have affixed one to this post.

 

Does your girlfriend work i.e. does she contribute to the household income? how old is her child?

Budget Sheet.xls

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999wills

999wills

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Ok I had an agreement document with the estate agents for them to represent me in selling the house. Sadly this was stolen along with my other documents. My girlfriend does work but did not contribute to my payments as she has her own flat. Her daughter is 15 and we have been together for 7 years in august. I am slowly getting work in again so hopefully I will be in a position to carry on payments till the house is sold. Like I said I am self employed. I have had people look at the house over the last few weeks. But without the HIPS pack I can't continue with the sale of the house. I've had a lot of problems over the last year emotionally and buried my head in the sand. I know it's wrong but had pretty much given up on things. I'm just hoping it's not too late to get things back on track. I'm determined to get out of this hole and start my life again.

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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OK, get the budget sheet done - you will need to offer something towards the arrears in addition to the monthly payment. The amount you offer towards the arrears is the amount left over after everything else has been accounted for.

 

I'll start to draft a witness statement and will affix to this thread when you tell me you have completed the budget sheet and how much you can afford to pay.

 

There is some case law we can quote and ask the judge to consider which allows time to sell the property.

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999wills

999wills

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Ell-enn you are a star and I appreciate the time you have taken on this. I will do the budget sheet now. My mortgage was £500 a month and I originally agreed to pay an extra £100 towards the arrears which they agreed too. I would be able to continue to pay this.

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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OK, defence statement affixed.

 

You need to get a copy of the bank statement showing the £5k (are you on internet banking?) Write on the top left hand corner of that the claim number (will be on the court documents) and Appendix 1 on the top right hand corner. Do the same on the budget sheet except it will be Appendix 2.

 

When you print it out make sure your printer is set for A4 paper (not Letter size) so it stays on one page.

 

Assemble as follows:

Witness statement - signed

Proof of £5k - Appendix 1

Budget Sheet - Appendix 2

 

This forms your defence to take to court. You will need another 2 copies of it all (3 sets in all), one for the judge, one for the other side and one for you to refer to in the hearing.

 

 

 

You should arrive at the court in plenty of time. Ask the court usher if they will give your defence pack to the judge before the hearing, they may say there isn't time, but don't worry if they do. You can give it to him/her in the hearing.

If there are any free legal representatives there, approach them and ask for their advice. They can accompany you into the hearing if you wish. Sometimes the representative for the other side will ask to speak to you, it is up to you whether you do or not. If you do, and you feel intimidated at any time, just end the conversation by saying you would rather wait for the judge to decide.

 

 

The hearing will take place in a private room with just the judge, you and a representative from the other side. It is usually conducted around a table, like a meeting. The public are not admitted. The judge will know that you are nervous and they are usually very good at guiding you through the process. If you have to address the judge it should be Sir or Madam – and don't interrupt them when they are speaking!.

 

 

The judge will speak to the other side first as it's their claim, he/she will then come to you, when he/she asks if you have anything to state - if the usher hasn't taken your statement to the courtroom before the hearing, you should say "Sir/Madam, may I give you a statement - and just hand it over".

The judge will then make his order.

The whole procedure should take no more than 5 or 10 minutes.

999Wills Statement.doc

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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You could take a set to the court tomorrow and ask the counter staff to put it in the file for the hearing.

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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OK, don't forget to photocopy another 2 sets.

 

Good luck and stay positive :)

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999wills

999wills

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Hi Ell-enn sorry I didn't get back to you but this is the first time in front of a computer since yesterday. Well as you know I was in court Wed and.......I won.:D.........Yessssss :-D It was perfect.

I walked in to the court and let them know I was there. I was asked if I wanted to see the Duty adviser which I accepted. He was very kind and went through all my paperwork. He said that he couldn't understand why they never accepted the 5k offer and the extra £100 a month on top of the mortgage payment. He also commented on how well I had come prepared. Kudos.... He said we shouldn't have a problem.

The DA spoke to the Santander representative who then phoned her office and said they was happy to accept the offer before we went in.

Well we was called in to the room and the duty adviser winked at me and said you won't need me in there now. We sat in front of a lady judge who went through all the paperwork, in a nutshell after going through everything and asking me literally what was on the witness statement she said that she was happy to suspend the repossession notice and not only that I will only have to "pay 4k instead of 5k." She smiled at me and said "are you happy with that" with which I obviously said "very". The rep for Santander then said "excuse me madam but we agreed on 5k" to which the judge said very sternly "I am the judge in this room and I decide what will and won't be paid. I'm very happy with the settlement and I hope you are too!" To which the rep said "yes madam." she turned to me and said that the 1k she saved me will go towards the next 2 months payments. I was over the moon.

I'm not ridiculing the process but it did leave me with a slight smirk. The judge stressed that I would have to keep the payments up so that we are not back here again and to call Santander if I'm in trouble again and not bury my head in the sand. I promised that would not happen.

I floated out of that court and was over the moon.

 

I wouldn't of been able to do it if I hadn't of had your help. I can't say thanks enough. Now I've got a new focus and feel so much better within myself.

Thanks again Ell-enn I think you saved me from losing my house. I wish I could at least send you a bottle of bubbly from me.

Your a star and thanks for the swift help with all the documentation. I'll never forget it :D

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Mr Worried

Mr Worried

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Hi Ell-enn sorry I didn't get back to you but this is the first time in front of a computer since yesterday. Well as you know I was in court Wed and.......I won.:D.........Yessssss :-D It was perfect.

I walked in to the court and let them know I was there. I was asked if I wanted to see the Duty adviser which I accepted. He was very kind and went through all my paperwork. He said that he couldn't understand why they never accepted the 5k offer and the extra £100 a month on top of the mortgage payment. He also commented on how well I had come prepared. Kudos.... He said we shouldn't have a problem.

The DA spoke to the Santander representative who then phoned her office and said they was happy to accept the offer before we went in.

Well we was called in to the room and the duty adviser winked at me and said you won't need me in there now. We sat in front of a lady judge who went through all the paperwork, in a nutshell after going through everything and asking me literally what was on the witness statement she said that she was happy to suspend the repossession notice and not only that I will only have to "pay 4k instead of 5k." She smiled at me and said "are you happy with that" with which I obviously said "very". The rep for Santander then said "excuse me madam but we agreed on 5k" to which the judge said very sternly "I am the judge in this room and I decide what will and won't be paid. I'm very happy with the settlement and I hope you are too!" To which the rep said "yes madam." she turned to me and said that the 1k she saved me will go towards the next 2 months payments. I was over the moon.

I'm not ridiculing the process but it did leave me with a slight smirk. The judge stressed that I would have to keep the payments up so that we are not back here again and to call Santander if I'm in trouble again and not bury my head in the sand. I promised that would not happen.

I floated out of that court and was over the moon.

 

I wouldn't of been able to do it if I hadn't of had your help. I can't say thanks enough. Now I've got a new focus and feel so much better within myself.

Thanks again Ell-enn I think you saved me from losing my house. I wish I could at least send you a bottle of bubbly from me.

Your a star and thanks for the swift help with all the documentation. I'll never forget it :D

 

FANTASTIC NEWS 999 I am happy for you so I am gonna crack a can open for you. Ell-enn saved me too with her advice and help.

 

When we all join this forum we are frantic with worry and despair, but it shows that with the help that we receive is invaluble.

 

Well Done Again, enjoy your Easter break.

 

Mr W

Regards..Mr Worried :)

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999wills

999wills

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FANTASTIC NEWS 999 I am happy for you so I am gonna crack a can open for you. Ell-enn saved me too with her advice and help.

 

When we all join this forum we are frantic with worry and despair, but it shows that with the help that we receive is invaluble.

 

Well Done Again, enjoy your Easter break.

 

Mr W

 

Appreciated my friend. I have a very large glass of red in front of me and have been beaming since yesterday. Things feel different already. I have a direction in life now. :D

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Mr Worried

Mr Worried

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Appreciated my friend. I have a very large glass of red in front of me and have been beaming since yesterday. Things feel different already. I have a direction in life now. :D

 

Fair play to you, hope your not watching the Bill though.

 

Mr W

Regards..Mr Worried :)

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999wills

999wills

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Fair play to you, hope your not watching the Bill though.

 

Mr W

nope i'm watching liverpool getting tonked on www.tvcatchup.com I love it tv on your comp no matter where you are :D Thats not an advert by the way. Just sharing the love.

Oh and well done to you also Mr worried....

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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Fantastic news ! Well done for being so brave :) Glad to hear you are feeling positive now. I'm so pleased for you.

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999wills

999wills

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Fantastic news ! Well done for being so brave :) Glad to hear you are feeling positive now. I'm so pleased for you.

 

It was thanks to you.....Your a very special person to take the time out for so many people. Life will pay you back....It always does with good people.

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Ell-enn

Ell-enn

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It was thanks to you.....Your a very special person to take the time out for so many people. Life will pay you back....It always does with good people.

 

 

:)

Help us to keep on helping

Please consider making a donation, however small, if you have benefited from advice on the forums

 

 

This site is run solely on donations

 

My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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