CCCS - Multiple Creditors

[deepindebt58]

Hi everybody.

 

I am posting on behalf of my Father because he is unable to use a PC and reading and writing is very difficult.

 

He has multiple debts, all of which were not is fault per se - but he allowed his family member to borrow thousands on his name from different creditors which in turn his family member could not pay as his circumstances changed. Stupid thing to do but it is done now.

 

For a number of years now we have allowed the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) to 'help' him deal with these debts, in my opinion though they have done very little. He currently pays a monthly amount to CCCS under a debt management plan, which in turn they pay a pro-rata payment to all his creditors.

 

It has been around 5-6 years since starting this Debt Management Plan (DMP). After closer inspection of some of his creditors I recently noticed that some of his balances are higher now than they were several years ago - even though they have been paid each and every month a small amount. I have written to a couple of these creditors who are adding interest at a rate higher than his actual payments. I have tried to explain to these freaks that at the age of 68 with many health problems, being registered disabled and in remission from Cancer that by continuing to increase his debts they will never be paid - ever. His age and health are against him.

 

In turn these creditors either do not reply whatsoever or write back and basically say "Suck eggs". We are entitled to add interest so tough. I have been of the opinion for a long time now to tell these creditors who continue to do this to go and take a long walk off a short pier. CCCS however insist that the DMP is the way to go and the creditor has every right to do what they are doing. I have not disputed this right, what I am angry about is these debts will never be paid and the stress this is causing my father.

 

Before I take any action I thought I would seek the advice of more experienced level-headed people on this site.

 

First I think he should drop CCCS like a lead weight in water. They seem to be 'Creditor Orientated'. I plan to deal with these creditors myself, but not being the brightest wonder if this is a good idea. What do you guys think? I don't want to act without thinking in anger lol. Second, I would immediately stop paying any creditor that has refused to stop or significantly decrease any interest being added. I feel mad about the fact after several years some of these debts have actually increased despite regular payments through CCCS. Third, It may be a good idea to CCA each of these creditors but even without a Credit Agreement it is my understanding that a Court case (not sure which one) made that get out of debt card not possible anymore.

 

I often said about bankruptcy, which my father always refused to do out of fear more than anything. It is also my understanding that the laws on bankruptcy have recently changed making it a far more severe punishment than it was before, namely making it last 3 years with almost every single excess penny having to be paid out. This is possibly the only way though, but I feel my father's health wouldn't hold up going down this route. It's very confusing what to do tbh.

 

So I feel I will first gather all the payments and balances from CCCS and creditors, stop the DMP and stop paying any creditors that are adding excessive interest. CCA requests may be a good idea also.

 

A lot to read and I am sorry about the long post but I feel like I am walking through a dense forest looking for a 'way-out sign' on a particular tree lol. Where to start.......

[citizenB]

I am surprised that CCCS havent considered your Father's health in this matter and that they havent been able to negotiate interest reduction or the stopping of.

 

I guess the main question is does your Father own his own property ?

 

You might want to have a read of sections 178 - 235 in the Lending Code attached. It might give you some idea on how to approach things. Almost certainly from what you say, your Father is being treated very shabbily by his creditors.

 

There is no problem with you taking over the administration of the DMP it will be a lot of hard work though.

 

 

 

Lending_Code_March_2011.pdf

 

HTH

[deepindebt58]

Hi, thanks for your reply.

 

I realise the amount of work involved but feel CCCS are not doing much, if anything. They often inform me of the creditors rights and thats our problem. As they say, and I quote, "we can ask the creditor to reduce or stop the interest but ultimately it is their right to charge interest and there is nothing we can do about that".

 

I will have a read of the link you posted. He lives in sheltered accommodation, rented but because he is in receipt of benefits no rent is payable.

[citizenB]

Yes, sadly, the CCCS is funded by the financial industry so they will harp on about "Creditors" rights.. But this appears to be shoddy treatement from the creditors and as you say, insufficient help from the CCCS.

 

I will alert the site team to your query and see if we can help out

 

At least he cannot lose his home to these leeches.

[cerberusalert]

Depending on the amount involved & given the circumstances he should consider a DRO if the debts are under £15K... if more than that invite his creditors to bankrupt him if he has no assets, otherwise this millstone's going to be around his neck for the rest of his natural.

[deepindebt58]

Depending on the amount involved & given the circumstances he should consider a DRO if the debts are under £15K... if more than that invite his creditors to bankrupt him if he has no assets, otherwise this millstone's going to be around his neck for the rest of his natural.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

Unfortunately a DRO is no good as his excess income is more than £50 per month. It does seem that these debts will be with him until he dies but what I hope is I can relieve the stress of these debts getting larger by at least stopping the interest and any/if any charges.

 

I will email CCCS one final time asking them to make a real effort to stop his debts increasing but if I get similar replies to what I have already received then I will take over the management of his debts. I'm not sure how that will work, but I would think a simple letter to all his creditors explaining his situation and saying that I will take over the management of his debts should suffice?

 

Regards

[cerberusalert]

You'll need a 'letter of authorisation' from your father otherwise they'll use the Data Protection Act as an excuse not to deal with you.

[Guest Peer Lawther]

Hi deepindebt58

 

We'd be happy to review your father's file if you can provide details. We can then see what advice we have actually given and see what options have been discussed.

 

As cerberusalert mentions, without a Letter of Authorisation we can't respond directly to you, but if we are supplied with client details, we can write directly to your father and he can then share the information with you.

 

Obviously please don't post up the client reference number publicly. If you prefer I can send you our Client Liaison Manager's email address in a private message so you can contact her directly.

 

Hope this helps,

 

CCCS Peer

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Hi Peer, it is good to see a CCCS rep on this site. I was given the run around by CCCS when I fell on hard times and then I did some digging and discovered how CCCS was funded. It made me very angry at the time and I now pay for someone to manage my DMP which seems nonsense to me...I would genuinely and open-mindedly be interested to know how you are able to best help people in an objective manner when you are funded by the creditors?

[Guest Peer Lawther]

Hi brokebutnotbeatn,

 

Thanks for your question. As you probably now know, rather than passing on our costs to you through fees on top of your debt, CCCS is a charity funded by 'fair share'; creditors voluntarily donate money to us, to help cover our costs.

 

This donation helps us offer debt advice to all UK citizens without charging them any additional fees - the majority of the debt counselling we give doesn't end in a solution like a DMP.

 

Everything we provide our clients is free, confidential and impartial, from the initial debt advice to the ethical repayment plans.

 

You can read more about our funding on our website. Unfortunately I can't post clickable links yet, however it's at http://www.cccs.co.uk/Corporate/Supporters.aspx

 

Regards,

 

Peer

Edited April 28, 2011 by cerberusalert

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Hi Peer - so you are funded by the creditors then?

[Guest Peer Lawther]

Hi brokebutnotbeatn,

 

As we say on the website:

All funding is provided as a voluntary contribution from the credit industry and reflects the value they attribute to the help and support we provide UK households, the charity’s beneficiaries.

 

It is this unique mechanism that allows us to provide our services totally free to consumers and protect our independence for our clients.

Hope this helps,

 

Peer

[Guest]

HI Peer

Firstly thank you for contributing to this forum it is really good to get information right from the horse’s mouth so to speak

You may have seen contributions from Nick Pearson on here also, he as you may know is an advocate of the fee earning sector.

Recently he mentioned that they have a success rate of around 93% in regards to halting interest charges on their accounts. I wonder do you have similar statistics available. I feel this would be very valuable information for our members.

Peter

Edited April 27, 2011 by peterbard
sorry peer typo

[Guest]

HI

OK perhaps my question was a little unfair. Could I ask instead then, what your policy is regarding the negotiation of interest repayments to creditors.

It is a major concern for anyone who is in the situation of requiring the services of a DMC. As I am sure you will appreciate there is no point saying that your service is superior to one that charges a fee if the debtor is going to get stung for contractual interest on his repayments. It would probably be more cost effective in most cases just to pay the fee if that were the case.

I do not want it to appear like I am trying to give you a hard time here, but I think this is the question we all need answered.

Peter

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Well I don't think the question was unfair, I would be interested in that figure. EGG sold my account in spite of having a good sum that would have seen the debt paid off in full after 5 years. This indicates they are not interested in getting the debt paid off but only on the interest that can be acrued against the debt. Hence a company who negotiates an interest freeze on the debt would not be seen as doing a 'good job' in the eyes of the creditor?

[Guest]

HI Again

I do not wish to appear that I favour either position, at the moment I am just asking for clarification. Mr Pearson has come on here on several occasions and stated unequivocally that one of their main objectives when servicing a client’s account is to ensure that they pay as little interest as possible, and that their only duty was to the client, all I would like is a similar statement from CCCS.

Peter

[Fred Bassett]

CCCS are a good organisation but only up to a point. In the first instance they can help you get on your feet and negotiate with creditors. This helps take a lot of the stress out of the situation. The problem comes after that. If you start to question your debts, sending off CCA request etc., that's where they are not helpful. To them it is an all-or-nothing approach - you can't pick and choose the creditors you pay and ignore the ones without valid agreements, dodgy DNs etc. The CCCS stance on this when I had a DMP was "well you do owe the money don't you?".

 

If you are serious about challenging some of these debts then in all likelihood you will have to arrange your own DMP, but this is not difficult. My advice to you would be to do just this. There is every chance that the greedy creditors will be the ones without enforceable agreements and at the very least this puts you much more in control of the matter.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Fibre22]

In exactly the same boat...

[Guest]

Hi Fred

With the greatest of respect I am not referring to challenging debts. To be honest I was shocked by the mention in post one where the DMC commenting that the creditor was entitled to add interest, it seems to me that this defeats the whole point of a debt management plan.

If an agreement fails because the debtor genuinely cannot afford to meet the repayments then the burden for rectifying that debt must lie on both parties. I would agree that the creditor should be able to recover the principle if at all possible perhaps even an index linked interest, but to me the agreement is ended, the creditor has no business still wanting to make a profit on it. The debtor will be sanctioned enough in that he will no longer be able to get anything on credit in the foreseeable future, I do not see why the creditor should not take some of the responsibility also.

What I think a lot of us want to know is which type of DMC would give us the best service to those who do not have the wherewithal to do it themselves.

Peter

[Fred Bassett]

Hi Fred

With the greatest of respect I am not referring to challenging debts. To be honest I was shocked by the mention in post one where the DMC commenting that the creditor was entitled to add interest, it seems to me that this defeats the whole point of a debt management plan.

If an agreement fails because the debtor genuinely cannot afford to meet the repayments then the burden for rectifying that debt must lie on both parties. I would agree that the creditor should be able to recover the principle if at all possible perhaps even an index linked interest, but to me the agreement is ended, the creditor has no business still wanting to make a profit on it. The debtor will be sanctioned enough in that he will no longer be able to get anything on credit in the foreseeable future, I do not see why the creditor should not take some of the responsibility also.

What I think a lot of us want to know is which type of DMC would give us the best service to those who do not have the wherewithal to do it themselves.

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

That's fair enough, it's just that when I read stories like this the red mists descend a little and my first thought, always, is to find a way to give these greedy sods a bit of a kicking. They behave in the most obscene manner to be quite honest and at the very least should be made to earn their money - let's face it if they had behaved reasonably in this case we wouldn't be discussing it now.

 

That said, the CCCS ought to be the best way to get this situation sorted if they do what they should and negotiate properly and if the intention is not to challenge the debts. Perhaps it is best to wait until the CCCS Peer has looked into it. In my experience, most creditors will freeze interest once CCCS become involved and it is surprising that they haven't in this case.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[Guest]

Hi Peter,

 

That's fair enough, it's just that when I read stories like this the red mists descend a little and my first thought, always, is to find a way to give these greedy sods a bit of a kicking. They behave in the most obscene manner to be quite honest and at the very least should be made to earn their money - let's face it if they had behaved reasonably in this case we wouldn't be discussing it now.

 

That said, the CCCS ought to be the best way to get this situation sorted if they do what they should and negotiate properly and if the intention is not to challenge the debts. Perhaps it is best to wait until the CCCS Peer has looked into it. In my experience, most creditors will freeze interest once CCCS become involved and it is surprising that they haven't in this case.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

 

HI Fred

 

Yes i know exactly what you mean, lets hope ther has been some mistake here. It would be nice though to have some sort of statement from CCCS to the effect that they think that creditors should write of contractural interrest on these accounts.

I cant see any reason why they would not want to confirm this.

 

Peter

[deepindebt58]

Wow this thread has kicked off a little lol.

 

Thanks to the CCCS representative for posting. I have already emailed CCCS to request they negotiate more aggressively with my father's creditors. I had a reply to say they would resend my proposals with a covering letter asking if they would reduce or stop the interest, a reply which I have had before without success. I have personally dealt with and am currently dealing with my own debts and TBH all of my several creditors have stopped interest completely - or they get nothing.

 

CCCS on the other hand have been unwilling to stop paying certain debts, it's all or nothing. Having just checked what CCCS have on file regarding my father's estimated current balance for all creditors it amounts to £9200. The starting balance for these creditors was about £12-12 half thousand. My father has paid so far a total of £6500 to CCCS, yet this has only reduced my father's debt by £3-3.5 thousand.

 

It is clear that these creditors are only after one thing, for my father to pay until his death . It has also been my experience that working out a budget with CCCS is very difficult at times. They have regularly questioned certain amounts for example housekeeping or sky TV. Unfortunately Sky TV is about the only decent (sort of) thing to watch on TV. As I explained my dad does not go out to pubs, does not drink alcohol whatsoever, does not smoke so Sky is his entertainment. He would be allowed to smoke or drink or other small amounts for entertainment yet they frown at paying for sky's basic package. A little off topic I know but I am just trying to make a point that CCCS have always seemed to be in the creditors pocket, as shown by the 3k reduction in my father's debts, which should be a 6k reduction. My father however gets comfort from believing CCCS are helping him deal with his debts and with only one payment per month instead of several to his creditors it takes a great strain off him.

 

I however have seen enough TBH. At this rate my father will end up paying about 30 thousand for a 12 thousand debt if he were to live that long. I will have a long discussion with my dad and see what we can sort out, if this means leaving CCCS then so be it.

 

Thanks for all the posts so far, and thanks to the CCCS rep for posting.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

If you have the time then a self-managed DMP has to be the way to go. From what you say, it can't be any worse!!! Anyway, good luck. I think your dad is lucky to have you and you have this site. x

[count orlok]

Unfortunately a DRO is no good as his excess income is more than £50 per month. It does seem that these debts will be with him until he dies but what I hope is I can relieve the stress of these debts getting larger by at least stopping the interest and any/if any charges.

 

I would beg to differ, if he is getting full HB and is on benefits, his income is the mimimum needed to live on, and there is definatly no £50 excess. It also does not include any money for paying creditors, and all they should be getting is a pound a month each. Any who don't provide an agreement and/or stop interest and charges get nothing. We live in social housing and are on pension credits, and this is what we have done. We owe to much for a DRO and can't afford BR, so we have accepted that we'll be paying this well into our 200s, but we sleep at nights.

 

BTW we are paying fifteen creditors on debts of around 30K, and the debt is reducing.

Edited April 28, 2011 by count orlok
Added BTW

[deepindebt58]

I would beg to differ, if he is getting full HB and is on benefits, his income is the minimum needed to live on, and there is definatly no £50 excess. It also does not include any money for paying creditors, and all they should be getting is a pound a month each. Any who don't provide an agreement and/or stop interest and charges get nothing. We live in social housing and are on pension credits, and this is what we have done. We owe to much for a DRO and can't afford BR, so we have accepted that we'll be paying this well into our 200s, but we sleep at nights.

 

BTW we are paying fifteen creditors on debts of around 30K, and the debt is reducing.

 

Thanks for your reply. I have checked with the insolvency service website and this is what it says about a DRO:-

 

To apply for a DRO, you must meet certain conditions:

• You must be unable to pay your debts.
  
• You must owe less than £15,000.
  
• You can own a car to the value of £1000 but the total value of other assets must not exceed £300.
  
• After taking away tax, national insurance contributions and normal household expenses, your disposable income must be no more than £50 a month.
  
• You must be domiciled (living) in England or Wales, or at some time in the last 3 years have been living or carrying on business in England or Wales.
  
• You must not have been subject to another DRO within the last 6 years.
  
• You must not be involved in another formal insolvency procedure at the time you apply.
  

I have highlighted what I mean by the excess income (£50) or more. I have looked at his income but will look again as I believe it is made up of two different benefits including Pension Credits. He also has Motability (which as far as I'm aware this should not be counted as income towards his debt, but I'm not sure TBH). I have so far failed to bring his disposable income below £50 but will take another good hard look at it.

 

Thanks very much for your input, every little helps!