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Northern Rock. 2 years mortgage arrears but no repossession...help..


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Hi, long story here, i will try to be brief but doubt it will happen!

Northern Rock have been threatening repossession for 18 months, but never actually doing it. I think i have them by the b*lls and they know it, so they don't want to open the can of worms so to speak.

I have petitioned for divorce last week (yey hey) from my husband of 13 years. He was a financial advisor of 25 years. After separating last year for good, I took over all the finances in my home which I share with my two young children. I have Bipolar disorder, which is a mental health disorder and I am in receipt of benefits only, DLA ESA Child benefit and child tax credits. I was struggling to keep on top of the bills etc as he had always dealt with everything.This is when things came to light.

 

Long and short, i requested copies of all mortgage applications from Northern rock and things did not add up. It shows he was in massive debt when he bought his first house before he was with me, yet they gave him a mortgage, he re-mortgaged 3 times on this property. In 2004 we moved in to this property and obtained a joint mortgage. This was one he had on the old property with northern Rock and he ported it across to this property, into joint names which i was happy with.

 

He controlled all the money, made out that his business was doing well etc, then in 2008 things became clear. I questioned how come money was so tight if business was doing well. He had asked to take money out of the kids savings, which was only around £700, my parents had the books and he wanted me to get them. When i questioned this and a few other things, he battered me. I had him immediately arrested. He had been mentally abusive before now but never physical. Two days later we sat and discussed everything./ The business was failing and the mortgage was in massive negative equity. I told him to close the business and get a paid job. He did. But things were tight.He had a load of credit card debt to the tune of around £85,000.00 on top of the mortgage. We bought the house in 2004 for £169,000.00, and now, 4 years later there is £285,000.00 on it in secured and unsecured loans. This amount was given by Northern Rock within 18 months of moving into the property. RIDICULOUS. I was not working and he was self certifying his income. There were minimum payments to the credit cards of £3000 per month on top of the minimum contractual INTEREST ONLY mortgage payment of £1400 per month. We could not cope. His employer made him go self employed within their company after one year, then let him go 5 months later. He had no job and we were going under.

 

 

I have had 2 applications for charging orders through the post. One for £26,000.00 has been granted and another for £22,500.00 has been applied for, both for his business bank overdraft and the second a credit card debt. :mad2:

 

 

I rang Northern Rock and explained this to them , since November 2009 they have been accepting reduced monthly payments of almost half the contractual amount. Since Sept last year when i kicked him out (at last) they have been accepting SMI (support for mortgage) payments only of £480 per month, which is £750 per month short of the contractual amount. Ever month i receive a letter from Northern Rock saying that i have not contacted them nor paid the amount due and am in arrears of XXX amount etc. Yet every month I call them to explain and agree the amount for that month, being the SMI payment. I have been passed from pillar to post, from the 'sensitive' team due to my illness , back to the switchboard and so on. I have been ill advised by them and when i query it they cannot seem to find the notes etc. I received a default notice at one point which upset me and i could not understand why. After I called them, it became apparant that NONE of my payment had been going toward the UNSECURED element. They never advised me to pay seperate amounts. I queried this and asked them to look into it.

 

I was advised that it may be possible for me to go into a LOAN MODIFICATION, and after weeks of phone calls and income and expenditure forms, i was now told that they could NOT do this as I had recently gone into a £1 CCCS arrangement to pay £1 towards the unsecured!!!!!!!!!! Again, this was conflicting information. I asked for transcripts of ALL my recorded telephone conversations along with all the notes they had on my file so that I could look into this. It took months to get to this point and last week i received a full and final response letter stating that they 'cannot find the phone transcripts' and that they do not physically have the manpower not time to check each and every application form that comes throught to them , they have to trust that the truth is on there by the applicant!!!!!!...and that they would not be upholding my complaint!!!! :-x

 

I have made them clearly aware that on the mortgage applications, my ex has been fraudulent by playing the system and not completing the forms correctly. He has, for example, scored through the employment section on one and written 'please cross refer with previous application'...this would have put him as employed when he was in fact self employed at the time etc etc. If they had in fact took the time to cross refer they would have realised this. They would also have realised that the amount of debt he had shown on the previous applications could not possible have been paid of as shown on the following application. He stated he needed the extra funds to ' consolidate business debt!!!!!!!! I have made it clear to Northern Rock that he had fraudulently, without my knowledge, obtained further credit to the account.

 

 

 

 

Every month when i call, if not twice a month, i tell them...stop threatening to repossess me, either do it so I can attend court and defend myself, or leave me the hell alone. I had a solicitor challenge them, i was going to sue them, the solicitor thought my case was good but legal aid was turned down from a prosecution point of view. They told me once i do receive a repossession order to get back in touch and legal aid will be granted for a defence. But it is 2 years, i cannot keep going every month wondering what is happening. I am £13000 in arrears, with charges adding on. I have been told i may be able to capitalise etc etc but nothing ever comes of it.

 

As much as I want to stay in my home, as i will never be able to obtain another mortgage myself after this, ia m not sure how i could afford it as it stands on my benefits. It is interest only and there is no way at the end of the term that i could find the full amount. My 'plan' is , to sue them to the point where i am only responsible for the original mortgage amount, the interest is reduced to a monthly amount i can personally afford, and that the arrears are capitalised. I will fight tooth and nail for my home, if at the end of it i have no choice but to go into rented then so be it. But i feel that i have for 13 years, been lied to and cheated out of owning my own home which may at some point in the future have given me and my children some security. I dont think we should be punished because of my ex's lies nor the irresponsible lending and incompitence of Northern Rock.

 

 

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PLease!! :sad:

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Hi miss

 

I've moved it to Home Repossession, this is minor point, but is there any PPI on any of the financial products you have?

 

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

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I think you need legal advise on this, tried CAB?

It would appear they could apply for repossesion at any time.

Judge would give you time if house put on the market, better to get rid, as debt increasing all the time.

Council would help to rehouse with kids once order granted.

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Hi, i dont think you understand! Northern rock are just as much at fault as my husband, they have admitted to not checking the application forms, they haev given me ill advice also which has led to more arrears and a default on the unsecured lending, they have admitted that, they cannot find the recorded telephone conversations which BY LAW they must keep a recording of, expecially in these circumstances. I have done nothing wrong so NR should be bowing to my every need and coming to some sort of payment arrangement with me. I have sought legal advice from the DPW, CAB, A solicitor, second solicitor etc, nobody knows WHAT to do with it, it is such a cock up mess!

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You've written so much it's hard to be clear on just the facts.

 

Are you stating that AFTER the joint mortgage was taken out, your husband subsequently had loans secured against the property?

 

If the answer to this is 'yes', then your signature would have been required.

 

If the unsecured debts are in your husband's name only, then you are not responsible for those debts.

 

It is difficult to see that any solicitor would not have indicated your likely position, except they have had sight of all the paperwork, and as such are in a much better position to advise you correctly than anyone online. I suspect, though of course I can't possibly know beyond what you've written, that the solicitors may have spotted something in the paperwork that implicates you somehow - though I'd expect them to have at least alerted you to the possibility.

 

You need advice as to whether your case has merit - and the only real way for you to do that is to engage a solicitor who will then provide a brief to a barrister, who will then provide expert advice (of course, if you had funds you could bypass the solicitor and engage a direct access barrister). Without seeing the paperwork it is extremely difficult to be accurate as to where to go - there are too many variables in your case as you state them above.

 

I suspect, from what you have written regarding your finances, that you cannot afford the ongoing payments. I appreciate that you want to stay in your home (and no one has taken any action as yet, so in the meantime you can), but you need to start considering the long term solution as with so much secured debt, plus charging orders coming out of the woodwork, it seems that the likelihood of you managing to pay everything is slim (you are not responsible for your husband's debt however).

 

If there is equity in the property it is likely that a possession hearing will follow - and you will need a solicitor to assist you as it is a joint mortgage, you are stating all the secured debt is your husband's (did you get no benefit from it?) and the matter is further complicated by the divorce and the children (are they his children?). You cannot do this on your own - and you will need specific legal advice with regards to any implications for yourself. I appreciate you have seen a couple of solicitors already, but you should go to the Law Society website and find another one.

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thankyou. there is around £40k negative equity in the house at present. The loans on th house are in joint names, but one is not my signature, he must have forged it. The otheres are my signature, i dont recall signing for loans though. He was a financial advisor and dealt with everthign, i just trusted my husband and signed what he asked me ...stupid of me. He maniplulated me and tricked me. He has just informed me he is now being investigated for benefit fraud, old habits die hard eh! He took out money on credit cards to fund his business, they are in his name only, but he signed a form at the bak putting the house up for callateral for the business overdraft of £26ooo which is now a charging order on the house. I dont think that was fair as i knew nothing of it and signed nothing, but they have told me they woudl only take half of any future equity, his half. I engaged a solicitor, he was going to take the case on , they had all the forms, application mortgage forms etc, everything, they thought my case was good, manipulation, etc, i have a mental health disorder, bipolar disorder, he dealt with everything, the solicitor said my legal aid was turned down so wait until the mortgage company proceed then reapply and i should get legal aid for a defense. I tried another soliciotr who said i need a specialist solicitor..!!?? I tried a barrister direct and his colleaugue replied saying he would not speak to me direct and i need to be referred from a solicitor!! i cant get help no matter where i try! i am pulling my hair out, there must be someone sho can help x

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northern rock admitted to me in writing that they do not have the 'time' to check every application form they get. on our mortgage and the 4 loans with northern rock secured and unsecured...on the application forms, my ex has been fraudulent in the firms, saying cross refer with previous application etc, which menat he was lying about his employment details etc. Had they actually checked them, they woudl NOT have let the loans happen. They would have added up 2 and 2 and realised something was really wrong. I only realised when i asked for copies of everythign last year, it is not hard to look through them and realise this. They are just as much to blame for this mess as he is, thats my point, i want them to be held responsible and come to a payment agreement with em to help me keep my home. They screwed up as did he. and if they have threatened reposession for 2 years but not done it...i think they know i have a case .

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They do have a case - it's against your husband if you are stating that you did not sign the forms - but nonetheless it is still a case for possession.

 

That said, you will need the help of a solicitor. If you were not advised separately, by a legal professional, when you signed any additional loan applications, or if, in fact, as you state, you did not actually sign the paperwork, then there is definitely a defence there for you. But, the full facts will need to be investigated - including sight of all the paperwork your husband completed.

 

However, as you have been told already, all that will happen is that your share of the equity in the property will not be used to repay any debts that you had no part in. But that doesn't mean that a possession will definitely not take place. I appreciate that doesn't seem fair. You don't currently have to worry about that though as the fact is possession proceedings have not been started as yet. But they almost certainly will be, and you should seek the assistance of a solicitor as soon as possible.

 

Some barristers do not accept direct access, so you will need to find one that does. Look on the Bar Council website for the list of those barristers who will accept direct instruction - they will NOT accept direct instruction, even if they can, if you require legal aid. A solicitor is required for a legal aid application.

 

I'm not convinced that they haven't gone for possession because they are concerned that you have a case (you do have a case for retaining your share of the equity). The delay in possession proceedings might be caused by an internal investigation at the bank in relation to your assertion that your husband has been fraudulent. They may have been lax in loaning your husband more money, but that doesn't mean that he won't have to pay it, or that they cannot ask for possession of the security and sell it to reclaim their monies.

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thanks for the above reply, how do you know this for sure..or do you? The lender had openly admittedin writing that they did not check the application forms...surely this is irresponsible and needs dealing with.

 

I'd agree the lack of checking the forms was irresponsible (as in, they should have checked, but they didn't - even so, they presumably did manage to gain security via the house, ergo their lack of checking has not fundamentally affected them regarding repayment of the monies they loaned), but it doesn't appear to me that there is a legal cause of action arising out of their lack of checking - and if there is, you haven't given sufficient information to indicate that (nor could you, as all paperwork relating to the issue would need to be looked at - and only a lawyer instructed in the case would spend time doing that).

 

My response is based solely on the information you have provided here. I have also stated that you need legal assistance (in person) so that someone can give you a definitive answer because the paperwork really does need to be scrutinised.

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I have had the paperwork scrutinised and been told I have a case,. Legal aid told me to reapply as a defense rather than prosecuting them. I am stuck between a rick and a hard place. The lender asked me to report the fruad to the police which i did. The police have now told me that it is a civil matter between myself my ex and the lender. I told them the lender was adament i reported it to the police so i did. they took a report from me and gave me a crime reference number, said they will write to the lender asking their position and their intentions now that i have done what they asked.

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I have had the paperwork scrutinised and been told I have a case,. Legal aid told me to reapply as a defense rather than prosecuting them. I am stuck between a rick and a hard place. The lender asked me to report the fruad to the police which i did. The police have now told me that it is a civil matter between myself my ex and the lender. I told them the lender was adament i reported it to the police so i did. they took a report from me and gave me a crime reference number, said they will write to the lender asking their position and their intentions now that i have done what they asked.

 

I don't disagree you have a defence to a possession hearing. It was in relation to the alleged fraud that I suggested you seek further legal advice, largely because of any possibility of implicating yourself.

 

If the advice you have received is to wait until legal proceedings have been instigated against you (usually because in cases like this the prospect of defending has a better prospect of success than issuing proceedings), then it's likely you will just have to wait until the bank issues. It does appear that my initial thought that there is no legal cause of action arising out of the lender's lack of reading the paperwork was right - hence the solicitor you saw advising you to defend (if issued) rather than issue proceedings.

 

It is always better to take the advice of those who have had the opportunity to read through all the paperwork relating to the case. I can only go by what you have written here and based on that, I think what I have written previously remains my opinion (and it is only an opinion based on the info given).

 

Good luck.

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  • 2 years later...

I AM STILL FIGHTING!!!

 

i am now £20k in arrears, i have no clue as to why they have still not, since 2009, repossessed. I need advise on defense as theyhave threatened action again, for the 6th time, so just in case this gets to the courtroom, i need help.

 

1: limitations...how do they apply to me as well as the disability aspect of them, having bipolar disorder?

2: unfair relationship...

3: irresponsible lending

4: deed... fee simple....definition and meaning please

 

 

thanks

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