chez's HP agreement problems

[chez262]

With regard to a creditor sending out a bad notice for eg one that overstates the arrears or does not give not less than 14 days, I have put this to the enforcement team at the oft who decided after consultation with their legal team, that if a notice is invalid then the creditor did not terminate the agreement, therefore cannot enforce in court. However they said that it did not stop them issuing a valid one to remedy situation. However in practice, you would have to convince a judge that it was not just a technicality. This is where the Harrison judgment is I feel vital as it slings it back to the creditor and even if you don't get to court could use this as leverage against a creditor who is behaving unreasonably when they refuse a payment plan and send a bad notice instead.

 

The unlawful rescission argument is now I feel thin. It means that if a creditor makes a court claim on reliance of a bad notice, they would need to discontinue, serve a valid notice and if debtor did not remedy, would then need to seek permission to make another claim.

 

I do think however as this is crowgals thread that she/he may need some help to narrow down the relevant points to argue.

 

Hi WP,

I notice you emphasis a bad notice here, do you know if this is the same for no notice at all? By this I mean, a termination with no 'missed' payment, only a late payment and no notice sent prior to termination.

Thanks

C

[Winged Piglet]

Chez262,

 

Is yours a credit card or loan as there are different things a creditor can do. Are they taking you to court?

[chez262]

Hi WP,

 

It's actually a Hire agreement. They have the goods now and did proceed to court without my knowledge of a court date (I had put in a defence). They obtained a judgment so I applied to have it set aside. They informed me they would challenge this up until the final week when they consented to the application.

That is where I currently stand. I am now having to file and serve an amended defence.

 

Regards,

C

[The Mould]

Hi WP,

 

It's actually a Hire agreement. They have the goods now and did proceed to court without my knowledge of a court date (I had put in a defence). They obtained a judgment so I applied to have it set aside. They informed me they would challenge this up until the final week when they consented to the application.

That is where I currently stand. I am now having to file and serve an amended defence.

 

Regards,

C

 

Good afternoon cherz

 

Have a read of the Judgment handed down by the Court of Appeal in Woodchester Lease Management Services V. Swain

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[Guest]

HI Chez

 

I havent looked at this thread from the begining for a while i am ashamed to say.

You say that this is a hire agreement and they reposessed your goods?

 

If this is the case you have grounds for complaint and counter suit, because the agreement had not been terminated(due to the defective DN).

This has well documented case law, if this would have been a hire purchase agreement there may have even been grounds for an action for conversion( depending on how much of the agreement had been paid)

 

Peter

[The Mould]

Chez

 

Firstly, I think you ought to start your own thread/case report here in the legal issues forum, otherwise Crowgal's thread is going to suffer from highjack most severe.

 

Secondly, here is a link to the Woodchester case:

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/1998/1209.html

Kind regards

The Mould

[pt2537]

If this is right, what peter says, that the agreement was a Hire Purchase agrement and the default was bad, then you need Chartered Trust vs Pritcher as the authority to support you as well as Harrison

 

I too havent read the thread from the start

[Guest]

If this is right, what peter says, that the agreement was a Hire Purchase agrement and the default was bad, then you need Chartered Trust vs Pritcher as the authority to support you as well as Harrison

 

I too havent read the thread from the start

 

 

Hi

Thank you Paul

 

I new i had read it you just saved me a lot of digging.

 

Peter

[caro]

I've moved these posts to your own thread chez.

[chez262]

Hi all,

 

Many thanks for your help so far, much appreciated!

I have since submitted an allocation questionaire and an amended defence, or my solicitor has. The claimants have submitted their reply, which I received today.

I must stress my case is very complex. It includes 2 contracts, 4 defendants and one of the contracts has a clause removing it from the CCA due to it being over £25000.

I have the defence and reply but would appreciate if someone would take a look to check if it is ok to put up on here please?

I am now being advised that this is likely to go all the way through court but before I accept that outcome I would appreciate some advice on my chances of success or some extended help with case law etc.

Thanks and regards,

Chez

[citizenB]

You might want to confirm with your Solicitor that they are happy for you to post on CAG whilst they are acting for you .

[chez262]

Thanks citizen, that's the problem though. I have already paid my solicitor over £3000 and he is estimating costs around the £10000 mark. The claimants are also estimating costs around the £20000 mark hence it being vital I make the right decisions before this goes any further. Don't get me wrong, I know the decision is mine at the end of the day but I have nothing to base it on right now!

I don't think I can continue to pay my solicitor so might also have to go this alone from now on

A few cagers have helped me along so far so I was hoping they or someone else could look over my defence and their reply before I move on any further.

[citizenB]

Aha, righto. I just didnt want you to fall foul of your own legal team.

 

You might want to pm andyorch and just ask him to pop onto your thread and offer some advice. I think postgj is another one who understands HP agreements

 

HTH

[chez262]

Thanks Citizen, I'll try them!

Just to be clear, this is a hire agreement... not a HP agreement.

Regards,

Chez

[postggj]

can i have a link to the thread chez

 

many thanks

[AndyOrch]

Hi Chez

 

Happy to assist with the legal procedure but HP is not really my forte, however I see Post is subscribed.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[chez262]

Thanks Andy, Post,

 

I have had bits of threads started on here overthe two years this has been going on.

I unfortunately don't have a thread that will paint the exact story of my whole case.

If I send you the latest defence and reply it should give a good picture of my case, anything you require me to put up in this thread I will do.

I'm hoping from the defence and reply you will know what you will need to see, i.e. the contracts?

Does this sound ok or is there another process I should follow in the CAG? I would just put the defence and reply up here but I'm not sure if that is the best thing to do with it being the currect defence as opposed to the case as a whole.

Please advise, much appreciated.

Thanks,

Chez

[chez262]

Hi Caggers,

 

Can anyone tell me how to edit a pdf file then upload it into here please?

 

Thanks.

[citizenB]

Will find someone who knows how to do this

[AndyOrch]

I use PDF editor ( or simple way is to copy and turn it into a word doc edit and convert back to PDF)

 

 

Andy

[citizenB]

[chez262]

Many thanks guys, will have a go!

[dx100uk]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[chez262]

Hi Caggers,

 

Many thanks, I think I have it sorted now

 

I have attached the Defence and Reply into this thread now below. I have taken out names and addresses but left dates and figures as requested.

I have until Monday/Tuesday to make a decision on this case, either settle with the claimants or go all the way to court. My solicitors words are he would like to think I would win but obviously it's the judge I get on the day if he agrees with me or not.

Now I understand this process, that there is no black or white so I'm not here searching for guarantees, just advice from caggers who have experience in the courts of late as to which way this is more likely to swing or if there is something in here which gives me no chance in hell

 

I have an SAR from the company and I am currently going through it to corroborate what they claim in the reply. One thing I am certain of is there were no missing parts when returned and the only effort they made to collect the equipment was by visiting the property which was shut when they knew full well it would be shut due to a fire incident we had informed them of.

 

Also, the contract for defendant 1 and 2 does have a clause stating over £25000 would not be regulated by the CCA, however this clause is a page below the signature and the contract has written all over it that I should be aware I am entering into a regulated agreement. Even next to the signature strip!

 

The contract for defendant 3 and 4 however does not have the clause stating it would not be regulated.

 

 

 

any thanks again for your time!

Defence.pdf

Reply.pdf

Edited August 6, 2011 by chez262

[chez262]

Also, upon signing this document I asked how the equipment would eventually become mine with it being a Hire Agreement. They said I will be offered the equipment prior to my final monthly payment and informed once the final payment is made the equipment will be mine!

I think this is quite dubious now but at the time I was a lot more naive.

Why was I not just given a HP agreement? Will this help me in court?

 

Thanks again!

Edited August 6, 2011 by chez262