Vodafone Incorrect Default *WON-out of court settlement*

[philharg]

Well I have asked Experian to explain things very simply to me but they still aren't. Here is an extract of the letter I sent them which they received two weeks ago today:

 

"On about 13th May 2001 you were contacted I understand to remove certain entries on my credit file which had been placed by Vodafone LTD.

I understand under instruction from Vodafone LTD you removed them however for no lawful reason they were re-instated on 22nd May 2011, removed again only to be re-instated on the 26th May 2011.

As you already know on the 1st August 2011 I asked for an SAR to which you have so far fully failed to completely satisfy, as stated by my email on the 27th August 2011. This email contains details of the additional information I require and warning you that if you do not satisfy your statutory obligations by the 9th September 2011 then you may be subject to complaint and possible legal action.

 

I have inspected the partial disclosure which you have made so far and I notice in your Customer Service Notes History on 23/5/2011 and 31/5/2011 that you in fact admit that there has been a “system error” as you chose to describe it in relation to my credit file.

As you are aware you have a duty under the Data Protection Act to produce SAR disclosures in clear language and the codes etc should be explained.

Therefore please will you let me have a full explanation as to what the system error was and why this resulted in your failure to remove unlawful entries from my credit file."

Obviously I am still awaiting a reply from them. At the end of the day all three companies are currently blaming each other really... Vodafone say it is Experian and Phones4u fault, Phones4u say Vodafone, Experian play dumb to the matter saying they don't speak to Vodafone.

I guess the only resolution will be for it to all come out in court where they have to get their stories correct and lawfully prove it.

Can I ask a question now to which hopefully someone has an answer....

In November some 3 months after Phones4u attempted to open this contract Vodafone closed it down. They scrapped the subsequent 21 months of the contract which were to follow and only defaulted the previous 3 months. They wiped clean the over £500 which would have to be charged to close the account down early.

Is this normal practice of mobile phone companies if they have never received notification that the account is being closed down and they are merely closing it down out of non-payment? Because I would of thought they would have to default the full contract value of say £600?

And Hi lastly to Charlotte.. if it's been dragging on for 2 years I suggest you follow my action and put some real pressure on the company to take notice. As you will see from the sheer volume of Vodafone default thread's on this forum they are acting in an incredibly irresonsible way with many accounts it seems. If you want any advice about anything do not hesitate to contact me!

[philharg]

Just wondering if someone could clear this random thought in my head up:

 

Obviously the terms on my side were never fully agreed for the contract as the number had to be ported through. This didn't happen so the contract's agreements were never completed.

 

Vodafone's defence is solely based around them stating that the contract was in place so they were allowed to place defaults against my name etc...

 

However.. having read the terms and conditions set out by Vodafone it quite clearly states:

 

"4. Using our services – the rules

 

d) We’ve allocated you a phone number on the network. This number does not belong to you and we may charge you a fee if you want to transfer this number to another provider."

 

Does the fact that Vodafone never fulfilled their side of the agreement as well not totally invalidate the contract (that was never agreed to in the first place)? ... the number was never ported through and they allocated a number onto the account.. surely this means they never fulfilled their duties in the setting up of a potential contract. Does this just give more weight to the fact that even if Phones4u never told them that the contract was cancelled that Vodafone should never have set up the contract either (even if told to incorrectly by Phones4u).

 

I'm still amazed they can process and charge a mobile phone account with no number... I bet they wouldn't be able to set it up if they didn't have your name and bank account details however.

 

Was considering going to the Trafford Centre in Manchester tomorrow as Rip-off Britain are filming for their show if you turn up and tell them your problems... might just have a day of rest instead.

[philharg]

So the most recent update.....

 

Experian have admitted that the two subsequent defaults re-appearing were in fact caused by a system error on their behalf. A rather worrying point that a company who's sole job it is to have very accurate records has had system issues putting default's against someone's name.

 

They did not offer any compensation and partially quoted the DPA section 13 to miss out the stress and distress part.

 

I have written back to them and if they do not pay compensation within 14 days they shall be added as the 2nd defendant.

 

I am now awaiting the allocation to court and hopefully have this within the next few days.

[locutus]

So the most recent update.....

 

Experian have admitted that the two subsequent defaults re-appearing were in fact caused by a system error on their behalf. A rather worrying point that a company who's sole job it is to have very accurate records has had system issues putting default's against someone's name.

 

They did not offer any compensation and partially quoted the DPA section 13 to miss out the stress and distress part.

 

I have written back to them and if they do not pay compensation within 14 days they shall be added as the 2nd defendant.

 

I am now awaiting the allocation to court and hopefully have this within the next few days.

 

Worying indeed! Go get 'em!

 

Thx for this update, I look forward to reading any further updates.

[2Grumpy]

How come these system errors weren't detected at the time (maybe they were)? - and fixed then?

 

It makes you wonder how many other "system errors" they have

 

It would be interesting to find out what the real cause of this was

 

Sounds like they recovered their databases and lost updates

Edited September 30, 2011 by 2Grumpy

[philharg]

What's also worrying is that if I hadn't have been checking my credit report daily then I wouldn't have known it had gone on.If it is a system error and not an induvidual data file error then surely this could have happened to a lot of other induviduals whom have recently had default's removed.

[philharg]

So a 14 day LBA was sent to Phones4u to actually come up with some evidence

acquiting them of fault or they were being added to court action.

 

They came up with the most generic response possible which addressed nothing which I had set out:

 

"Thank you for your recent correspondence dated 3 October 2011 regarding your contract taken out through our Manchester store.

We are keen to ensure that all customers have a positive experience and we take all customer comments seriously.

Our aim is to offer a friendly and helpful service on every occasion.

 

We acknowledge you wish to consider your options in regards to the issues you have raised with us.

 

May I take this opportunity to advise that our position remains unchanged.

We feel we have responded correctly in regard to the issues relating to the disconnection of your line.

 

The return of your contract was processed in store on the day after your contract was originally transacted.

 

However, if there is any further information, of which we are not yet aware, please contact us and we are more than happy to reconsider this.

 

We are maintaining that we accept no responsibility for your line not being disconnected for the timescale that you provided.

 

After contacting you at the earliest opportunity we processed a return through our store to get the line disconnected as agreed.

 

Should you wish to discuss this further, please contact our customer resolution team on 0844 871 2244.

 

This line is available 9am to 6pm Monday to Friday.

 

Yours sincerely XXXXCustomer Resolution Team"

[philharg]

Most recent update:

 

The case has been allocated to small claims court with a date of 20th January 2012.

 

Experian have failed to reply to my 14 day request to finally sort the matter out or be added to court action. I then called up to cancel my subscription to their service. Quite unbelievably their salesman tried to convince me to stay with Experian's service so I could keep track incase the default re-appears. An amazing sales technique I must note which really puts your confidence back in their systems.

 

I have also received a copy of the contract with Vodafone showing the mobile phone number to be 07XXXXXXX written onto the contract. I also have written confirmation from Orange that this number was ported directly from "Cellnet" (actually Virgin Mobile) on the 5th August 2009. The contract with Vodafone was dated the 1st August 2009 and then the contract I took out with Orange was dated 2nd August 2009. On the 2nd August 2009 the number was ported directly over to Orange taking the 3 days to the 5th August. Hence showing Vodafone never had this number ported and never owned the lease against this telephone number at any stage.

 

Phones4u and Experian most likely to be added as 2nd & 3rd defendants in the imminent future.

 

Thanks

 

Phil

[Paragun007]

I posted a message on the thread about this and what had happened to myself, it is now missing and Vodafone have contacted me asking me where the post is, can you tell me what happened to it? Did I post it incorrectly or should I have started a new thread? This is only my second post so I beg forgiveness for any unintended errors on my part !

[locutus]

here ya go

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?324271-Vodafone-5-year-default-problem&p=3587465#post3587465

[Paragun007]

Thanks for that I have my silly head on for that one

[Paragun007]

I am getting nowhere with vodafone and my lawyer has given me his figures for taking the case forward, having read your thread it seems that I could do this myself using the letter before action, where can I find the template or buy it?

 

I read that you had to prove the expenses you claimed philharg and I am doing the same, 5 years of using a credit card with 26% APR against a good one at 13% adds up as does the numerous SAR's I have requested and dozens of credit reference reports plus monthly membership fees for many years of equifax at £6.99 per month all add up yet when I told vodafone that I wanted £200 in full and final settlement I haven't received a reply since not even from Lee!

 

I have one more fee to pay which is for an affidavit for my wife who actually dealt with paying off the £25 vodafone alleged I owed them when I was in China even though I didn't use the phone! My wife was told specifically by the man that knocked on her door demanding payment that if she paid the money a default WOULD NOT be issued and that he had authority to say that as he was an agent for vodafone, when my wife double checked this with Credit Solutions they said the same!

 

The judges love affidavits from witnesses I've been told!

 

Has your case against vodafone now ended?

Edited November 10, 2011 by Paragun007

[philharg]

Hi Paragun and and update for all interested..

 

Yesterday I filed for an amendment to be made with the court to add both Experian and Phones 4u as 2nd and 3rd defendant's respectively.

 

Phones 4u have offered no evidence whatsoever that they have done no wrong. Experian have obviously admitted doing wrong but will not pay compensation. I feel this is the quickest route as opposed to wrangling with Experian for months. They have had their chance to put things right and come clean and instead they prefer to try misleading customers by misquoting law.

 

Although this will obviously delay the case and court date of 20th January 2012 I feel this is the only way to correctly deal with the case. I would rather this than the Judge on the day decide Vodafone are not entirely at fault (although they obviously are at least partially) and for myself to not receive full recompense.

 

As a reply to Paragun specifically I am only asking the court for £1300 for distress and damages. It keeps my costs down and I feel it is a fair amount. I have had much help in putting my case to the small claims court and it simply depends on if you have the time. Vodafone always said if I could prove the damages they would pay. However in the world of credit this can be very very difficult. Can you prove to Vodafone that you would of got a lower interest rate... I doubt they will accept whatever you come up with and this is why you may need to pursue matters in court so they can make the judgement.The expenses I claimed £425 for were hours, SAR's, CRA membership fees, postage costs. Vodafone had agreed to this but haven't paid as they only offered as full and final settlement.

Edited November 10, 2011 by philharg

[Durkin]

Good luck with this.

 

Wouldn't it have been less of a ball ache to sue for £5000 without having to prove anything except that Vodafone wrongly defaulted you? (Post #43)

 

More cash too for you and no court delays.

 

Keep your eye on the ball. Lawyers are great at complicating simple matters.

 

The quickest route to justice is best. Claim your £5K. Teach Vodafone to act responsibly and use the time saved enjoying life.

 

I've spent too may Xmas's with legal stuff rattling around my head. (Not good - at least one more to go!)). I had hoped you'd have this done and dusted by now.

 

All the best.

 

Richard.

[locutus]

Please regard Richard as an expert in this, as he has walked this path for a long while.

 

I hope 2012 brings this to a successful conclusion for all.

[Paragun007]

I like Richards idea of just claiming £5,000 and be done with it, let the court decide if it is reasonable or if Vodafone has acted unreasonably! I think the courts are getting fed up with companies like vodafone treating customers terribly, they give lip service to customer service and customer CARE!!! They have destroyed a lot of good honest peoples credit ratings for at best petty reasons, I really think that they have a sadist in charge of their credit department maybe it's that supposedly fictitious Esther! I think it is the devil!

 

Have you noticed that the process always follows the same theme: send us the documentation you have to show what mistake we have made, we then do so so Vodafone then knows what they are up against well in advance of ever getting to court! Next we get the promises, then the offer which will have conditions unacceptable to us, then when we don't accept it will go quiet for ages, then they will come back and say it was an error!

 

We all know that vodafone believe that 98% of case will never get to court because the people do not want to waste the money and do not feel they are capable or confident enough to do it themselves, let's be honest after all this would we do this for anyone else? Going through all that grief all over again to help someone in the same position as ourselves, I think not, this is why the CAG is so important, if I hadn't found this site and philhargs thread I would have spent the next year waiting for that damned default to be removed, now I won't!

 

I am contacting my MP Robert Syms on Monday to have him raise this issue with the PM, customers need to have recourse against these big companies, rip off Britain has gone on too long, I also intend setting up an online epetition to attract 100,000 signatures so that this forces a debate in the House of Commons just as the referendum one did, maybe then vodafone will take note and realise that enough is enough, the line is drawn, no more will the little man be trodden into the dirt we will stand together against all forms of tyranny!

 

That last bit was for remembrance day!

[Paragun007]

It seems that Martin Keatings has stolen my thunder about setting up an online Epetition this is what he has posted (below) and I think it covers what I was proposing, all it takes now is to widely advertise it and get 100,000 signatures, it might take a while but eventually it will get there!

 

Next job is to contact my MP about the same, time for some action on this:

SYMS, Robert: [email protected]

Guy, Nichola [email protected]

 

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22295

Data Protection Enforcement

 

Responsible department: Ministry of Justice

We the undersigned would like the government to take a more active role in ensuring that consumers' rights under the Data Protection Act 1998 are enforced. We would like to see active enforcement against companies including banks where they have failed to comply with the above act as well as fines for said failures. We would further like to see a guideline developed in parliament for Judges as to appropriate compansation / examplary damages to be awarded to claimants (pursuers) where the data access controller has failed to meet their duty under the above named act; and where the consumer has been forced to seek both enfocement and examplary damages as a result of said failure and the consequencies of said failure.

[citizenB]

It seems that Martin Keatings has stolen my thunder about setting up an online Epetition this is what he has posted (below) and I think it covers what I was proposing, all it takes now is to widely advertise it and get 100,000 signatures, it might take a while but eventually it will get there!

 

Next job is to contact my MP about the same, time for some action on this:

SYMS, Robert: [email protected]

Guy, Nichola [email protected]

 

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22295

Data Protection Enforcement

 

Responsible department: Ministry of Justice

We the undersigned would like the government to take a more active role in ensuring that consumers' rights under the Data Protection Act 1998 are enforced. We would like to see active enforcement against companies including banks where they have failed to comply with the above act as well as fines for said failures. We would further like to see a guideline developed in parliament for Judges as to appropriate compansation / examplary damages to be awarded to claimants (pursuers) where the data access controller has failed to meet their duty under the above named act; and where the consumer has been forced to seek both enfocement and examplary damages as a result of said failure and the consequencies of said failure.

 

How bizarre, the link has been tweeted 78 times (79 now) yet only one person has signed the petition!

[citizenB]

Paragun, it might be an idea for you to copy that post with the epetition link, over to the following campaign forum and pop it in a thread specific to the request.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?91-Campaign

 

I suspect that by just keeping it here on the thread, it might get lost..

[Durkin]

Petition is a tad long winded with a few spelling mistakes.

 

I signed it anyway.

 

The important thing is to hassle our MP's directly.

 

I wish AV had succeeded. I believe there are quite a few MP's not pulling their weight; only voted in because of their party.

[citizenB]

Once an independant thread has been started, we will be happy to link it in the newsletter, but linking to an individual post in a long thread is a nightmare

[Paragun007]

I have set up the new thread (see below) as requested and amended the spelling mistakes at least I hope I have found them all

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?327152-Epetition-to-Ensure-Penalties-For-Breach-of-Data-Protection-Rules!&highlight=epetitions

 

I have also found this which has been very useful in refuting all of vodafones reasons for not removing the default I hope it will help other people and those going to court soon! Relevance starts from paragraph "9" onwards.

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.pdf

[citizenB]

Excellent, thank you Paragun.. the General newsletter will be sent last Wednesday in the month.. which will be the 30th

[Paragun007]

Maybe someone can help me on this one, I need to know if there is a template or similar for the letter that I need to send to vodafone before I take legal action, or, do I just send them a letter saying I am going to take legal action from X date if they do not comply by my reasonable requests?

 

Thanks in advance.

[dx100uk]

i would suggest you use YOUR thread

 

dx