Ashbourne Membership Management - Gym cancellation

[diego_prado]

Hi all

 

On February 4th 2010 I joined a Gym called “Club U Fitness” near Kentish Town West overground station (North West London). This gym is ran by Ashbourne Membership Management. I first heard about this Gym from a friend who said it was around £15 a month. I thought this was really cheap for a gym so I decided to head down and sign up myself. I got there and there was an American Guy running the gym who apparantly is the Owner and the “Celebrity” Gym Trainer. Anyway he spoke to me and I told him about a friend that comes here and shes paying £15 and is not tied into no long term agreements, I also let him know that was exactly what I was looking for. He said they were not doing that deal no more so he mentioned I could join for £35 a month and not be tied in or £25 a month and be tied into a 12 month contract.

 

As soon as he mentioned 12 month contract this is when I mentioned that I was moving away from the area in August so there was no point in signing up for a long term agreement. I also told him I didn’t want to pay £35 a month because I went there expecting it to be £15 a month. This is when he said the cheapest way around it is if I join the gym on a 12 month contract costing £25 a month and then because I am moving away to University and I wont be able to access the gym I would be able to cancel it with no problem. I believed him and went to sign the contract and started training. So I paid £25 each and every month till my last payment made on July 5th 2010.

 

I received my first letter from Ashbourne saying I needed to pay my original £35 a month and a fee on top of this, this was already wrong as I didn’t pay £35 a month I paid £25 a month. Anyway I sent of a letter explaining to Ashbourne that I was moving away and that I already spoke to the “Owner” of the gym and he said it was fine. They did not reply to me for ages, not one word! Then another letter come through saying I had to pay more this time so they completely ignored my first letter. At the time I was already living up in Sunderland (North East England) so it was hard communicating with them as they kept sending of letters to my parents address in London. After finding out they were demanding more money I sent of another letter explaining my situation. They finally got back to me saying ok we need you to prove this with two types of postal letters to your new address. I proved this straight away with a letter from my university that said I was moving into halls and a statement from the bank. This was sent just before I went on holiday in December.

 

I came back from my holiday in January 2011 to find a letter which says I still have to pay of the amount they were asking for even though I had proved everything. I don’t see why it was needed for me to prove anything for them to just carry on demanding money. Ever since then my parents carry on receiving letters demanding money and I have wrote back to them with the same response about proving I am living away from home and I cant get to the gym. But they insist in me paying back £290. I then received a letter from Johns & Saggar Solicitors who are now chasing me down for a total of £340. They sent the letter on the 30th March 2011 and say I have 28 days from this day to settle my account to prevent further court acction. I have not replied back to Ashbourne since my last letter which they clearly ignore and I have not contacted Johns & Saggar Solicitors at all.

 

Im not sure what to do. Any support and advice will be great.

 

Many thanks

[slick132]

Hi Diego and welcome to CAG

 

You need to read other threads here about Ashbourne.

 

We are currently waiting for a High Court decision about the way Ashbourne run their business.

 

This thread should give you some useful guidance - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291124-Ashbourne-management

 

8-)

[diego_prado]

Thank you for the reply.

 

I have read the other Ashbourne thread but now my only worry is that it's not just Ashbourne Management sending me letters it's also the solicitors. They have given me certain days to get back to them with the demands and if not they will take me to court.

 

I am not sure a to what to say to the solicitors.

 

Diego

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

If you have set out your grievances with Ashbourne in writing, you need not deal with the solicitor, apart from informing them that the matter is in clear dispute and they must therefore refrain from making further demands of you.

 

You can use letters from the other thread, adapted to reflect your own case.

 

The solicitors are not likely to try and take the matter to court and, if they do, you can defend with a good chance of success.

 

If you haven't already done so, write to Ashbourne with a brief summary of events to date, in the form of a separate schedule including dates and content of telephone conversations.

 

Until the OFT High Court case against Ashbourne is decided, you really need do little more as there is every chance any agreement you have with them will be declared to be invalid.

 

8-)

[diego_prado]

Thank you very much. I will let you know how i get on with Ashbourne and the Solicitors. I will be sending out these letters later on today and will post back once I get a reply from either of them.

 

Many thanks

[diego_prado]

Hi Slick

 

Just a quick question. Is the high court case still going on with Ashbourne? When do you hear what's happened with them in court?

 

Diego

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

The case was heard in March but I don't know when the decision will be announced.

 

It was at Birmingham Chancery Division and, when we hear more, it'll be updated here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?289465-Office-of-Fair-Trading-v-Ashbourne-Management-Services-9th.March-2011&p=3249914&viewfull=1#post3249914

 

8-)

[diego_prado]

Oh ok. Bellow is the letter I will be sending out to Ashbourne Management.

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your letter of 22/03/2011 and do not appreciate you passing details of me onto a credit reference agency and other solicitors.

 

You should now consider this matter to be in clear dispute for various reasons including, but not limited to:-

 

1. Owner (Ulysses JR) of the gym said that I could cancel easily and without penalty.

 

2. I told the 'owner' I will be moving away for university around august times but was again assured I could cancel easily.

 

3. Ashbourne is considered by the OFT to be behaving unfairly with regard to UTCCR 1999; CCA1974 and CPUT 2008.

 

4. Ashbourne is the defendant in High Court proceedings brought by the OFT, due to be heard in March 2011.

 

I consider that Ashbourne have failed to treat me fairly and dispute that I owe you any further money. Until the High Court case against you is resolved, I will not communicate with you further.

 

If you make any further demands of me, I will refer the matter to the fos for clear breach of the OFT debt collection Guidelines.

 

If you make, or cause to be made, any adverse credit markers with any credit reference agency, I will take action against you for damage to my reputation.

 

I trust I have made my position clear.

 

Diego

 

How can I change this so its clear what I mean???

 

4. Ashbourne is the defendant in High Court proceedings brought by the OFT, due to be heard in March 2011.

 

I consider that Ashbourne have failed to treat me fairly and dispute that I owe you any further money. Until the High Court case against you is resolved, I will not communicate with you further.

[slick132]

3. Ashbourne is considered by the OFT to be behaving unfairly with regard to UTCCR 1999; CCA1974 and CPUT2008. The case brought by the OFT against Ashbourne was heard in March 2011 although the judgement has yet to be handed down.

 

I consider that Ashbourne have failed to treat me fairly and dispute that I owe you any further money. Until the High Court case against you is resolved, I will not communicate with you further.

 

Otherwise your letter looks good to go.

 

8-)

[diego_prado]

Slick thank you so much! I will be sending this of later on today!

 

This is an of the subject question, I have another debt problem that is with a University I attended to. They want to charge me for a 2nd year I did not attend the university. Where can I start a thread for this type of problem?

 

Many thanks

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

Suggest you start a thread here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?131-Students

 

8-)

[diego_prado]

Ok great, thanks so much I have started the thread and got quick response many thanks!

[diego_prado]

Hi

 

It has been nearly 3 months since I sent of the letters to Ashbourne Management and the Solicitors. I have not received anything back from the solicitors but Ashbourne Management are still sending me texts saying I owe them money and on the 06/07/2011 I received a letter by post which ignored the letter I previously wrote to them, which was the letter that included everything you pointed out I should add. I am now wondering what can I do in this position as I do remember Ashbourne lost the case in court how could I use this to my advantage to get out of this. Ashbourne does not communicate well with me and by the looks of it they wont stop getting back at me. They also mentioned on messing up my credit. Please help

 

Diego

[slick132]

I suggest you write to Ashbourne once again reminding them of the general position:-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I am still receiving demands form you, despite having explained clearly (in my letters of xxxdates) why I owe you no further monies.

 

The gym which I used gave me very clear assurances that I was able to stop the gym membership when I needed to go to University.

 

I am aware of the recent High Court ruling about Ashbourne's practices. If you continue to harass me for payments, I will refer the matter to Trading Standards and the FOS.

 

If you post any adverse markers on my credit records, I will take appropriate action against you.

 

I suggest you close your files and stop harassing me. Alternatively, please take court action in the matter which I shall vigorously defend.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Then if you hear any more from them, complain to TS and to the FOS.

[diego_prado]

Hi Slick the last letter worked a treat. They actually got back to me! This is what they said;

 

Dear Mr Prado

 

As previously advised, we handle the monthly payments for the above reference.

 

In response to your letter we refer to the terms and conditions of the agreement you are party to. We are able to cease the agreement but we do require proof that you attended university from September 2010 and therefore no longer reside in the area (so far as 15 miles). To prove this, we would require you send us a copy of your UCAS acceptance letter dated around august 2010 showing that you accepted the place and a cancellation fee of £90 to cover the july, August and september 2010 payments.

 

Should you have any problems.....bla bla bla bla bla

 

So that was the response letter I got back. I had received a similar letter a while back asking to send UCAS papers and I did but failed to get another response back from them. As for the payments they are asking for. I was paying £25 a month. They are asking me to pay for July, August and September that would be £75 although I did not leave in September, I left at the beginning of August.

 

My question to you is after all this hassle with them do you think there is something I can say or point out so that they just cease my contract without no cancellation fee?

 

Also they did not mention anything about my credit. Is there anyway to find out if my credit has been damaged by these guys already?

 

Thank you so much for your help

 

Diego

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

Can you check your contract and just make sure they didn't get you to sign a 24 or 36 month contract. If, by any chance you did, they would be scuppered due to the High Court ruling about contract length. If your contract was, in fact, just for 12 months, I suggest you send a final letter:-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

I refer to your letter of xxdate, in which you ask for proof that I started university in Sunderland in the summer of 2010. This was supplied to you with my letter of xxdate.

 

You previously asked, in your letter of xxdate, that I provide proof of my new address. This was supplied to you in my letter of xxdate. I am aware that Ashbourne and other gym admin companies have a habit of "losing" letters which deal with cancellation. I will not, therefore, be providing you with further copy documents.

 

Your offer to accept £90 for July, August and September 2010 makes no sense. I paid the agreed membership fees of £25 per month up to and including the last payment made on 5th July 2010. This was payment for the final month as I left for uni in early August 2010.

 

It was explained to, and agreed with, the club's owner that I could leave without penalty when I had to move to Sunderland. I was paying a higher monthly membership fee because this was the only way I could leave without penalty when I had to move away. I was not willing to commit to paying for 12 months and only joined the gym on the clear understanding that I would not have to.

 

In these circumstances, I will not be paying you any further monies, nor will I engage in any further communication with you.

 

I refer you to the comments I made in my last letter about you making further demands, or posting any adverse credit data. If you make any further demands of me, I will make a formal complaint to the FOS asking them to formally investigate this matter.

 

Please now close your files as it will not be worth your while pursuing this matter further.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Edited January 23, 2012 by slick132
typo

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

Any update on this please.

 

The OFT are still keen to hear from anyone who is being chased by Ashbourne using contracts that have been ruled unfair by the Judge in the High Court case.

 

Have you checked to see which of the contracts you have using this OFT page - http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement/consumer-enforcement-completed/ashbourne/

 

Also, see this thread - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?320766-Ashbourne-Management-Services-Ltd-Contracts-longer-than-12-months&p=3563434&viewfull=1#post3563434

 

[diego_prado]

Hi there Slick

 

Sorry I have not been in touch with you guys. I am actually in North Texas as I go University over here. My parents still live in London and they tell me they are still receiving letters weekly asking for money and I did not receive a response from them to the letter I sent out to them.

 

My question right now is what can I do as they do not respond and dont want to communicate with me, they just send weekly letters demanding the money.

 

Many thanks

 

Diego

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

To know exactly where you stand with AMSL, we need to know for sure if your contract for longer than 12 months or if it was one that was ruled unfair by the Judge in the AMSL High Court case. As you're in Texas at the mo, you won't be able to check on this.

 

I therefore suggest you simply let AMSL and their "solicitors" keep sending you weekly demands. If neither you nor your parents respond to the demands, they'll realise that all they're doing is wasting their postage.

 

So, until you come back and can let us know about the contract, ignore them and don't respond at all.

 

[diego_prado]

Hi Slick

 

I managed to get my parents to send me a copy of my contract and it is a 12 month contract.

 

Where do I stand with this contract slick?

 

Many thanks

 

Diego

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

See if you can identify the contract using the first link that I gave in post #17 above.

 

Have AMSL continued to make demands for payments.

 

Did you send them the letter that I suggested in post #16.

 

[diego_prado]

Hi Slick

 

After looking around I matched my contract to the following: Contract 8

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/consumer-enforcement/ams/contract8.pdf

 

I did send the letter off that you done in post #16 but they just ignored it and did not reply back to me.

 

The last letter they sent was last week sometime

 

Thanks

 

Diego

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

The OFT summary of the judges comments in relation to the individual AMSL contracts is here - http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/consumer-enforcement/consumer-enforcement-completed/ashbourne/

 

You will be pleased to see that Contract #8 is held by Mr Justice Kitchin to be unfair and unenforceable. The OFT comments as follows:-

 

The Court held:

 

various terms of Ashbourne's standard form agreements are unfair contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular:

 

- Terms in contracts 1 to 10 which required consumers to pay in full for the remainder of the minimum membership period if they wished to cancel during this period. This was both because the minimum term operated as a "trap" for consumers who overestimate the use they are likely to make of the gym, and also because the contracts unfairly gave Ashbourne the right to demand too much in payment;

 

- Terms in contracts 6, 8, 9 & 10 which require the consumer to give cancellation notices to Ashbourne rather than the gym. In fact the contracts were between the gym and the consumer, and so the consumer should be able to deal directly with the gym.

 

The judge also held that in contracts 1 to 8 it was not sufficiently clear who the consumer was contracting with -Ashbourne or the gym, and contracts 9 to 13 were only sufficiently clear if the name and address of the gym was entered in full on the contract.

 

So the bottom line here is that you cannot be made to pay anything by AMSL.

 

If you get any more mail from AMSL at all, please let me know and I'll put you in touch with the OFT contact who will add this to the complaints logged against AMSL. They already have a Penal Order against them and further complaints could mean fines for AMSL or those connected with the running of the company.

 

[diego_prado]

Slick that is great news!!

 

In previous letters they say they will make credit claims do you think they have gone through with that?

 

Is there a way I can check if my credit has been affected?

 

Diego

[slick132]

Hi Diego,

 

........ they say they will make credit claims do you think they have gone through with that?

You mean they've said they'll report the "debt" to credit reference agencies.

 

To see if they have done this, you can send a postal request for your credit file enclosing the £2 fee to Experian, Equifax or Call Credit. See this guide - http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/credit.aspx

 

Get this done from a UK address if you can. I assume you could use your parents' address.