##parking : Littering from vehicle - FPN issued...

[Jamie839]

Hi all,

 

Please bear with me, fairly new here. I work for a bus company as a driver. Before Christmas 2010, my boss (registered keeper) received a letter from the local council requesting details of who was driving a particular bus at a certain time/date. Reason for this request, was that the driver was allegedly seen to throw a cigarette end down a drain while standing on the footpath next to the bus in question. It turned out that I was the alleged driver at the time, so my boss furnished my name/address to the local council.

 

About a week afterwards, a FPN arrived on my doormat for the alleged offence. I wrote to the council protesting that DEFRA guidelines hadn't been followed as a written caution hadn't been included in the initial contact with my boss (as suggested by the guidelines). The chief executive wrote back to me, explaining that DEFRA guidelines HAD been followed. I wrote again, suggesting that this was incorrect. Lo and behold, my boss received another letter asking for the same information he initially furnished to them, yet this time, their letter includes a written caution. The council have written to me advising they will respond further when they hear from my boss.

 

His position is that he has already furnished them with the information they are requesting and he won't be doing so again.

 

Where does this leave things exactly?

 

Any advice much appreciated!

 

Rgds.

[nero12]

Where does this leave things exactly?

 

sorry of hijacking your thread however I have an interest in what advice is given as FPN's have to satisfy certain criterea, im thinking the council is trying it on here.

[Jamie839]

sorry of hijacking your thread however I have an interest in what advice is given as FPN's have to satisfy certain criterea, im thinking the council is trying it on here.

 

Well my initial thought was just that. That's why I did a bit of research and bamboozled them with the DEFRA guidelines. The guidelines (which are not law I might add, but councils should follow them as best practice) recommend that a FPN should not be issued if a prosecution cannot be secured with the evidence already collected. The guidelines also state that if a council should request further information after issuing a FPN then this is a further breach.

 

Rgds.

[havinastella]

There is no requirement for a registered keeper to provide details of the driver for alleged littering offences under the EPA.

 

Respond in writing to the address given and copy to the Chief Executive separately in the form of a complaint.

 

Dear Sir,

Re: FPN No. (I assume it's got a number. you don't say)

 

I refer to your letter and FPN dated 8 April 2011.

 

This FPN has been served fraudulently as there is no legal basis for the council to serve a FPN on the registered keeper of a vehicle for offences allegedly committed under s87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The reference to the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 is also spurious in that the purpose of the section referred to is only to amend the relevant section in the primary legislation and in itself does not create any offence.

 

I require you to respond in writing with an apology for exceeding your statutory powers and notifying me that this FPN has been cancelled.

 

I have copied this letter to the Chief Executive to register a complaint under the council's Complaints Procedure.

 

YF

[Jamie839]

There is no requirement for a registered keeper to provide details of the driver for alleged littering offences under the EPA.

 

Respond in writing to the address given and copy to the Chief Executive separately in the form of a complaint.

 

Dear Sir,

Re: FPN No. (I assume it's got a number. you don't say)

 

I refer to your letter and FPN dated 8 April 2011.

 

This FPN has been served fraudulently as there is no legal basis for the council to serve a FPN on the registered keeper of a vehicle for offences allegedly committed under s87 of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The reference to the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 is also spurious in that the purpose of the section referred to is only to amend the relevant section in the primary legislation and in itself does not create any offence.

 

I require you to respond in writing with an apology for exceeding your statutory powers and notifying me that this FPN has been cancelled.

 

I have copied this letter to the Chief Executive to register a complaint under the council's Complaints Procedure.

 

YF

 

Havinastella, thanks for your reply.

 

What you're essentially saying here, is that the EPA doesn't give the council the power to ask the registered keeper for the drivers details? That is how I understand your post. Correct?

 

The FPN wasn't actually issued to the registered keeper, it was issued to me, at my address after my boss (the registered keeper) furnished my details to the council. The reason he did this was that he was under the impression that he was obliged by law to reveal this information. This now appears not to have been the case according to havinastella.

 

Rgds.

[newmoses]

The onus is on the council officer who allegedly saw you throw litter to positively identify you.If he/she can't do that,then there is no case to answer.

[lamma]

The need to identify the alleged offender before issuing the FPN.

See DEFRA.

[B & T]

Am I alone in wondering why this alleged offence was not dealt with by the Council jobsworth 'on the day'?

After all, the alleged offender was standing on the footpath at the time.

 

OP - the title of your thread appears to be somewhat misleading as the allegation of littering as described in your post was not made from a vehicle.

Edited April 20, 2011 by B & T
additional sentence.

[sailor sam]

Am I alone in wondering why this alleged offence was not dealt with by the Council jobsworth 'on the day'?

After all, the alleged offender was standing on the footpath at the time.

 

OP - the title of your thread appears to be somewhat misleading as the allegation of littering as described in your post was not made from a vehicle.

 

Agreed. This is not a motoring offence.

[lamma]

How in name of Hades is throwing a butt down a drain "littering" ?

Nothing was left on the street !. (nor in 'water' in the S.87 sense).

 

Which (appalling) council is this ?