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#repossessions : Unlawful mortgage charges----help!!!


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Hi, not sure where to put this, maybe one of the site team can shift it if its in the wrong place....

 

Basically I am considering using the court system to reclaim the unlawful charges made against my mortgage account, on a house which was repo'd nearly three years ago....

 

I am looking for help with exactly what I can and cant claim, there seems to be a obit ot a grey area,

 

I have charges on my account from 2006-2009 ( just using the fsa ruling dates for arguments sake) which are arrears managemnt fees, debt counsellors fees, agents(?) costs, solicitors costs, posession charges, and returned direct debit fees.

 

My mortgage ran for 4years before it was reposessed and I was continually charged arrears management, agents costs and possession charges until the house was sold, which was nearly a year after the repo.

 

Any help greatly appreciated.

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This link is a perfect place to start reading - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/entry.php?256-Sequenci-s-Debt-Diaries-Blog-Home

 

It is unlikely that you will be able to claim for solicitors costs/court action, mainly because these are contractual charges under your agreement with the lender - however, if you think they are particularly high, you can ask them to quantify them (i.e. explain exactly what you are being asked to pay for - or had been asked to pay for as you said you've been repossessed already). You would need a solicitor to tell you whether or not the charges were higher than they should be however, before you were able to claim them back.

 

Other charges are often reclaimable simply because they exceed the reasonable fees required to administer an account when it is in arrears.

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ok, quick question,

 

Found the bit about charging interest post judement, basically its a no no unless requested at court and then continually advise the debtor....... 24 October 2008 house repossessed following a last minute stay being denied. Charges and interest kept accruing until the house was sold for half its value in September 2009, leaving a shortfall of £46000 ish. According to them..... But they never had a money award and as of yet never went back to get one......They had a straight possession order........ wording being "claimant gives possession of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,xxxxxxxxxx forthwith, like I said this was a last minute stay, was in court at 10am and was evicted at 1130, all fun........

 

Am also now being chased for said shortfall with threats of further costs being added........... but they chase only me and not my partner aswell......... Debt letters come in my name only and only one copy, yet the mortgage was joint.

 

Question being, are they being pushy or is this something else I need to look into?

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Hmm, your case is a bit more complicated than the usual reclaim of charges.

 

You've got a shortfall, but that shortfall may be made up of charges AND due to the property selling at a low rate - do you know how much it sold for? - and are you aware of what similar properties were selling for at the time? The lender had a responsibility to sell the property for the best possible price and if they did not, then there is a potential claim against them for that. It's not a claim you would be able to put forward yourself however, it is likely to require expert witnesses.

 

Are you sure they didn't get a money judgment at one of the earlier hearings? It could have been as early as the first suspended possession order. Check your paperwork if you still have it.

 

Are you still with your partner? Is he/she working? If you are the only one working, that'll be why they are targeting you. You are both jointly and severally liable for the shortfall (if indeed there is a legitimate shortfall).

 

I'd suggest getting all your paperwork out - and if you cannot find it, issue a SAR notice to the lender and make a request for it all - including statements. Once you have the information you should go through it all with a fine tooth comb and list everything that should not have been charged (refer back to the link I gave you - and also take a look at some of the other threads on reclaiming charges).

 

Do you currently own a house? Does your partner? They may well be being pushy, but they are entitled to chase you for 12 years for the shortfall, and can go back into court for it if they need to... If they did issue further proceedings, you could then counterclaim - but you can't do that until you know exactly what it is you want to claim. So, if you have the statements, go through them and add everything up - and if you don't, send a SAR notice to obtain them.

 

Looks like you've got a bit of work ahead of you with a spreadsheet and/or calculator!

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I'll be going off line shortly - and am in court all day tomorrow - but continue to post any questions you have and I am sure someone will help (and if they haven't by the time I get back tomorrow evening, I'll pick up where I left off).

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hiya...

 

mite is say thanks for your considerd response:oops:

 

Yes am still with partner, both working now..... although its been a rough couple of years.

 

I had complete breakdown following the repo, severley medicated for a while... partner was forced into bankruptcy in June 2009, now discharged. I returned to work in September last year, all be it part time, House was advetised for £119,950 following repo by lenders estate agents, this was actually starigh ofter the rep on October 2008 they actually sold it for 73000 in September of 2009....work that one out. We have paperwork from the lenders estate agent that also states that an offer of £110 000 was made and refused by the lender in Feb 09, why we dont know....

 

Still got my mortgage paperwork, bit of a horder that way, will have to have a read...

 

As for property we are currently renting via a private landlord.... luckily we had a great housing officer at our local authority who was able to swing a private house for us, even with the cardinal sin of a repo on our files......

 

Thanks again

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hiya...

 

mite is say thanks for your considerd response:oops:

 

Yes am still with partner, both working now..... although its been a rough couple of years.

 

I had complete breakdown following the repo, severley medicated for a while... partner was forced into bankruptcy in June 2009, now discharged. I returned to work in September last year, all be it part time, House was advetised for £119,950 following repo by lenders estate agents, this was actually starigh ofter the rep on October 2008 they actually sold it for 73000 in September of 2009....work that one out. We have paperwork from the lenders estate agent that also states that an offer of £110 000 was made and refused by the lender in Feb 09, why we dont know....

 

Still got my mortgage paperwork, bit of a horder that way, will have to have a read...

 

As for property we are currently renting via a private landlord.... luckily we had a great housing officer at our local authority who was able to swing a private house for us, even with the cardinal sin of a repo on our files......

 

Thanks again

 

Your partner having been bankrupt probably is the reason why they're going after you - did she have the mortgage included in her bankruptcy?

 

Sounds to me like the offer of 110k should have been accepted, and if they received significantly less than that several months later, they may well have been not acting in your best interests - they are supposed to secure the highest price they can get. You will need a solicitor to look into that aspect however, I don't think it's something you can do yourself.

 

If you have got all your paperwork, follow the info I gave you yesterday and work out any additional charges etc, and then take it from there.

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ok, been thru my mortgage file and the only court order I can find that even mentions money is, from August 2006, which reads;

 

hearing the claimants solicitor, the court orders that

1. The defendant give the claimant posession of xxxx.xxxxxx,xxxx on or before 28 September 2006

2. The defendant pay the claimant £73,644.95 for mortgage arrears.

 

I kinda succcesfully challenged that and got a suspended po...

 

Providing we paid mi plus £100 per month I think.....

 

 

The last one actually reads

 

Defendants application to suspend is dismissed.

2. Claimant may issue warrant of possession forthwith

3. permission to appeal is refused.

 

I was evicted that morning.

 

Also have found sales statment from incasso llp, regarding sale of house, on 2nd September 2009.

 

That states,

 

Balance on account before sales proceeds posted £107, 051.72

Sale Price £ 73,000.00

 

Asset managers fee £11,901.24

Solicitors costs £ 517.50 conveyancing fee

£270.48 Complex team fees

£26.45 TT Fee

£11.00 Land registry

 

Sealing fee £125

Redemption interest 0.00

Total £12,851.67

 

Redemption monies received from solicitor £60,273.33

 

Shortfall on account £46,778.39....

 

So question, what is an asset managers fee?

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So question, what is an asset managers fee?

 

The asset manager is the person that looks after the repossessed properties - they arrange the workers that go in to wind down the property - that is, they disconnect all the services, drain the heating system, clear out any furniture etc and insure the property (block policy insurance). The asset manager then arranges for any repairs to the property and instruct an estate agent to market the property once all of the aforementioned is done. They then act on behalf of the lender in accepting/declining any offers on the property.

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It is lawful - but the question is whether it was a reasonable amount. You'd need a solicitor to tell you that (they will be able to ascertain what an asset manager, in your specific case, would charge).

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hi, thanks for your help so far,

 

i have a charge for "agents" costs that keeps cropping up, its very irregular and never for the same amount, this is during the life of the mortgage, in your experience do you know what this could be defined as?

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Anything that looks suspicious and is above a nominal 8-12 pounds (or thereabouts) charge, is probably reclaimable, particularly when it's labelled as something that isn't immediately recognisable. For example, a charge for a failed/returned DD is a valid charge, but not if it exceeds the reasonable costs - often lenders (sub-prime and prime) will charge 20-35 pounds for such a charge, which does not reflect their actual costs, so that charge will be reclaimable.

 

Please bear in mind that whilst many of the charges are reclaimable, it will only be PART of the charge that will be repaid if you are successful in your claim - this is because some of the charges are valid, just not at the rate that is considered reasonable.

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understood, thank you.... spreadsheet finished..... got about 4k in poss reclaimable charges..... thanks again....

 

 

Sorry for jumping in on your thread. Is it possible for you to tell me what I can claim back from my mortgage company?

I have my SAR, and not sure what I can caim back.

 

Many thanks in advance x

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hi,

 

is is my understanding that you can request, returned direct debit fees, arrears management fees, debt counsellor fees, POSSIBLY very POSSIBLY (big word see) "agents costs" and solicitors costs although with solicitors costs you have to prove that they are not reasonable or in proportiion to what a solicitor should charge....

 

You will however, if you are succesful in any of the above, only get a percentage, as they are entitled to charge, it is just a matter of how much....

 

If I am wrong I am sure Lea_HTH will correct, but I think thats the gist....

 

Hope it helps.

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DCA has the crux of it. Good stuff.

 

I repeat my earlier word of caution with regards to things like 'asset manager fees' and 'solicitors fees': these are professional fees that will need another professional to assess whether or not they are fair and reasonable for the work carried out - I am not saying they should not be challenged, just that you might need professional help to do so.

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Anything that looks suspicious and is above a nominal 8-12 pounds (or thereabouts) charge, is probably reclaimable, particularly when it's labelled as something that isn't immediately recognisable. For example, a charge for a failed/returned DD is a valid charge, but not if it exceeds the reasonable costs - often lenders (sub-prime and prime) will charge 20-35 pounds for such a charge, which does not reflect their actual costs, so that charge will be reclaimable.

 

Please bear in mind that whilst many of the charges are reclaimable, it will only be PART of the charge that will be repaid if you are successful in your claim - this is because some of the charges are valid, just not at the rate that is considered reasonable.

 

On what basis is only part of the charge reclaimable? Maybe the FOS would award partial refunds of charges but in my experience if the lender cannot prove the charge is fair and reasonable (which they cannot), then the County Court will award you the full charge plus interest either statutory 8% or at a restitutionary rate.

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Hi,

 

Just an update,

 

Had two letters from Redstone, one stating that they have my letter and enclosing their complaints procedure, saying they would investigate and respond within 28 days....

 

The second states that they have not concluded their investigations and that they expect to have done so within the next 10 WORKING days.

 

Is this normal Redstone or are they going to keep sending me letters saying the same thing.? Ie we havent finished yet.

 

Should I be pushing the matter or no?

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Found the bit about charging interest post judement, basically its a no no unless requested at court and then continually advise the debtor.......

 

Hi - noticed your comment in earlier part of this thread and wondered if you could let me know where to get this info re interest on judgement costs - I have had costs added to my mortgage but then it was sold on to another company who are now adding interest to it. I want to challenge this as I cant see anything in the court order about interest either - thanks.

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Hi - noticed your comment in earlier part of this thread and wondered if you could let me know where to get this info re interest on judgement costs - I have had costs added to my mortgage but then it was sold on to another company who are now adding interest to it. I want to challenge this as I cant see anything in the court order about interest either - thanks.

 

Hi Campari

 

I posted this on a tread I started fot Swift Advances and below that is the reply I got Killerschick who used to work for CAB.

 

7 NOTICES OF POST-JUDGMENT INTEREST

7.1 From 1 October 2008, creditors will be required by section 130A of the

1974 Act59 to notify the debtor if they intend to charge post-judgment

interest under a regulated agreement in connection with a sum that is

required to be paid under a court judgment. The creditor will not be

entitled to charge interest on the judgment sum until the first required

notice has been served.

 

7.2 Further notices must be given at intervals of not more than six months

for such time as the creditor wishes to charge post-judgment interest.

7.3 The notice may be incorporated in any other statement or notice under

the 1974 Act. The provisions do not apply in respect of post-judgment

interest which is required to be paid by virtue of a court order.

7.4 The 2007 Regulations set out the information and forms of wording to

be included in notices of post-judgment interest.60

7.5 The first required notice must include a prescribed statement indicating

the creditor's intention to charge post-judgment interest, and the

procedures involved. This must indicate the rate of interest payable, and

the date from which it will be payable, and that further notices will be

given at least every six months for so long as the creditor intends to

charge post-judgment interest.61

7.6 In addition, the notice must indicate the amount on which post-judgment

interest will be charged. It must also include prescribed statements

highlighting the debtor's right to apply to the court to vary the terms of

the instalment order or to reduce the amount of interest payable, and

that the debtor can obtain advice and information about dealing with the

59 As inserted by section 17 of the 2006 Act

60 Regulations 34-35 and Schedule 5 as amended

61 Schedule 5 Part 3

OFT1002 24

debt from a number of organisations (with contact details taken from the

OFT default information sheet).62

7.7 Subsequent notices must also indicate the total amount of post judgment

interest charged since the date of the last notice, the dates on

which interest was charged, and the rate of interest (and whether this

was variable).63

 

As far as I am aware the rules relating to post judgment interestlink3.gif apply to county courtlink3.gif judgments or CCJ's not possession orders. Generally interest continues being charged in accordance with the contract when a possession order is granted as the loan is still live. In the case of CCJ's obtained after default on unsecured loans the debt is crystallised and the contractual terms no longer apply so the rules on post judgment interest come into play along with some quite complex law in the case of CCA regulated debts. Therefore as far as I am aware (and I would not claim to have a definitive answer here) Swift do not need to issue you with the notices described in the OFT guidance.

 

Hope this is helpfull

 

LL:|

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