How long till another Beryl Brazier case?

[DonkeyB]

Here’s a tragic case that could have done with some digging. Wonder if anyone harassed the Bank of Scotland about this?

 

http://www.debtmanagementtoday.co.uk/newsstory?id=1182&type=newsfeature&title=tragic_mother_s_suicide_caused_by_debt_stress

[Desperate Daniella]

I don't even think this case was even mentioned in the national press - and it should have been. We really do need a journalist to take up all these stories. Any ideas anyone?

[Dial Square]

That is so so sad Donkey B. It makes my blood boil. I'm very lucky that even during my most worrying moments with my old debts, I never ever felt suicidal but for everyione like me there are hundreds who would consider this path. And most of them will be totally unaware that there is help at hand such as CAG. That poor lady couldn't even tell her husband.

[Desperate Daniella]

Apart from the whole thing being absolutely tragic and awful, it appears she had repaid the money anyway, but obviously her account had not been updated and she was being chased for money she didn't actually owe. Logically of course she should have called the police and reported them for demanding money with menaces, but these people so terrify you logic just flies out the window.

[count orlok]

My feeling is that (from past experience, both personal and with friends/aquaintances) if a DCA feels that someone is at risk because of mental or physical ill-health, then they are seen as an "easier target" and are often pursued more vigourously. Appalling behaviour, I know, but DCAs by their very nature, are only after one thing - profit at any cost

I feel I must concur. I have a heart condition as well as a few other problems, and my wife has emphysema and asthma. Both are conditions would be exacerbated by stress with consequences one would not wish to imagine. In my experience whenever we have told a DCA about this, they have not asked for proof. Instead they used this as a reason to become more threatening, in particular ramping up the threats of doorstep collectors especially when told there was a real risk to life.

 

Perhaps they are hoping to put in a claim against the estate, believing this would be a more profitable route?

[babybear39]

My sincere condolences to her family and friends. The hotel staff must feel extemely upset also.

 

We should have a sticky to post these stories and I will then ask the site team if this can be addressed at the highest echelons of the banks/DCAs etc. concerned.

 

If, as has already been mentioned, the debts were paid, the matter can be taken up using Furguson V British Gas Trading, the Beryl Brazier case and other such cases.

 

My knowledge of corporate manslaughter is vague but surely there's someone on CAG who can help with this.

 

Come on CAG, it's time to shout about it NOW!!!

[DonkeyB]

Here’s a more enlightening quote from the story in another paper, from the poor woman’s husband, taking about Bank of Scotland:

 

“I was unaware of this harassment. It only came to my attention after she passed away. They recognised they made errors and have made a financial donation to our children’s trust fund.”

 

It’s here:

 

http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/localnews/highwycombe/8967370.Debt_problems_led_woman_to_take_drug_overdose/

 

Absolutely unbelievable. A donation to the kid’s trust fund? It should be a manslaughter charge.

[theghost]

Interesting topic - how should people be treated differently if they have mental issues ? What is to stop everyone claiming the same to get DCAs off their backs?

 

The same applies from a regulators point of view. How do they know who to believe? I have heard from someone who worked in regulation of debt collection agencies that it was common for consumers to lie through their teeth and claim harassment in order to try and get the regulators to stop the DCA chasing them Therefore I daresay there will be some scepticism from the regulators as well as the DCAs.

 

Unfotunatley I think its one of those things that is only revealed when its too late.

[Desperate Daniella]

There are people on this forum who have provided all sorts of medical evidence to prove that they and/or their partner have a serious medical condition, and in many cases this evidence is just ignored by the banks themselves and they or their DCAs continue to harass.

 

When I first joined CAG I remember a case where a cagger was supporting his friend who was taken to court by a bank when he was dying. He was caused immense stress for many months and died just two weeks after he was in court.

[theghost]

But what do you want the banks/DCAs to do about it?

 

I am not being obtuse but if we are saying banks/DCAs should take into account medical conditions then we must have somesort of path that they should follow if the debtor be seriously ill.

 

I am guessing stopping all DCA acitivity isn't going to be it.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

? I expect them to write not call when they've been told NOT to call. I expect them to not call people's place of work; I expect them NOT to use intimidation or to misrepresent what can happen to the debtor. I expect them to READ letters and respond appropriately. I expect them to follow the law. If they can't enforce a debt because the financial institutions have not loaned it properly, I expect them to stop trying to enforce it. There would be many people on this site who would have negotiated payment plans however minimal years ago if financial institutions acted in a responsible and reasonable manner at the outset when they were advised of a change of circumstance...

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I could not agree more.

[theghost]

? I expect them to write not call when they've been told NOT to call. I expect them to not call people's place of work; I expect them NOT to use intimidation or to misrepresent what can happen to the debtor. I expect them to READ letters and respond appropriately. I expect them to follow the law. If they can't enforce a debt because the financial institutions have not loaned it properly, I expect them to stop trying to enforce it. There would be many people on this site who would have negotiated payment plans however minimal years ago if financial institutions acted in a responsible and reasonable manner at the outset when they were advised of a change of circumstance...

 

Of course, but that is what you would hope any DCA would do!

 

I want to know how people who are mentally impaired should be treated any differently, if at all.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There are many reasons to treat with care those with disabilities of any sort with care and understanding none more essential than the

fact that it cannot be immediately obvious what reaction may be provoked by the harsh and indiscriminate methods used by DCA's and

lenders who in some cases have taken advantage of impaired clients (personal experience).

[DonkeyB]

Here’s a couple of old but still relevant features:

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/consumer_affairs/article6584793.ece

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/oct/28/accounts.saving

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

If that doesn't prove the point nothing ever will, and the abuse will continue and more tragedies will happen!

[babybear39]

A DCA, who will remain nameless until I've concluded my business with them ,when I was ill last year, rang my number and spoke to my daughter asking if they could speak to me. They shut up pretty quick when she retorted with "good luck, she's in a coma". The DCA then asked which hospital so that they could verify the information! A few minutes after calling my landline the same bloody idiots tried my mobile to which my daughter told them to GFT

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This kind harassment needs to be stopped by some new legislation and punitive action against

the offenders.

[paulh1818]

I don't have any disabilities - mental or otherwise but the tactics of various dca's certainly changed my everyday behaviour if I'm truthful. I can see how someone more vulnerable would have a real hard time coping. There needs to be changes made.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Agreeing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brokebutnotbeatn]

The changes don't need to be to the current law and guidelines but with the regulatory bodies tasked with enforcing them. 3 strikes and you're out. DCAs only behave in this way becasue nothing is done to stop them - paltry fines following years of half-hearted investigation. They are like children - continuously pushing the boundaries and continuously getting away with it. Lack of enforced regulation is tacit approval to continue with the behaviour. In this industry you are guilty until proven innocent in their eyes. It can change but it will take time. I could go on and on, but I won't...

[lamb909]

Another agreement here from quite a new member, I was and still am thinking suicidal thoughts, am getting help from CPN and GP's but to be honest they don't understand this particular issue. If it carries on much longer then, well, I don't know.......... just hope peeps will still help me on here. Must say though its only 2 or 3 DCA's that make me feel that bad, the others not so much. There is nothing to stop me doing it, no close fsmily that I speak to, no partner, no kids and sometimes just think "what the hell, just do it", luckily I havent but sometimes I really, really could. This site and its members have to be honest saved me doing it, I don't know where I would be without it and them. Its a lifeline.

 

Sorry ffor waffleing

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Always feel free to talk if three is any thing that is troubling you or threatening you there is help and understanding

available from people who have suffered or are suffering as you are!

[izzitme101]

Speaking of a campaign, and getting cag more widely manetioned, is it possible to have car stickers with the url made up?

If a site team or owner could arrange for them to be made, im sure lots would buy them, i would certainly have one on my car, and a small bit of profit for running the site out of it as well.

 

On the problems side, i have aspergers myself, which makes things difficult, 5-6 years ago a letter from 'them' would have had me in a right panic, i currently have a cc that has had no activity at all for 3 years, awaiting an answer to queries i made at the time, and an overdraft, with which i have tamed the dca, and they now accept payments i make without question

All thanks to the advice on here

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I would subscribe to that.