Jump to content


HSBC d&G taking me to court with no CCA **Discontinued***


TWW
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4561 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Sorry for having to post this again but the mail address I used previously was hacked so I can't use my old account.

 

HSBC and I have been playing the give us the money/where's the CCA game for a while now. Last year they issued CC papers to whic I responded with the following defence.

 

1. I XXXXXXX of XXXXXX am the Defendant in this action and make the following

statement as my defence to the claim made by HSBC Bank Plc.

2. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of

Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

3. The Claimants' particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of

action and they are embarrassing to the Defendant as the

Claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and

does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In

this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following

matters

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not

disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding

the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in

relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to the

method the Claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any

other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim.

 

b) A copy of the purported written agreement that the Claimant

cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the

basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been

served attached to the claim form.

c) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any

default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged

accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

4. On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a request for a

copy of the agreement which forms the basis of this claim, this

was sent special delivery and signed for by a Mr/Ms Whittle at

08:16 on the 20th July 2010. The acting solicitors have not seen

fit to respond to that letter.

5. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of

claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

6. The Claimant pleads that that this claim concerns an agreement

regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974. However, the Claimant

claims nterest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act,

1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled

to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts)

Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section

2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

The general rule.

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the

relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money

due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

7. I respectfully request the court’s permission to submit an

amended defence should the Claimant file fully particularised

Particulars of Claim.

Statement of Truth

I XXXXXXX, believe the above statement to be true

and factual

Signed

Date 4th August 2010

 

I then wrote to the solicitors stating the above. They have replied basically saying that they don't need the agreement and if I do not sign the enclosed 'Letter of Consent' (that will never happen) to withdraw my defense they will continue to apply for summary judgement.

 

Since then they wrote offering me the oppertunity to withdraw my defence and agree with them totally, which I declind.

 

They have now applied to have they stay set aside (successfully) and the case transfered to my local court.

 

My undertsnding is that without the CCA which they admit does not exist (it being dated c2001) they do not have a case. WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE?

 

Thanks for your help

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 156
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

My undertsnding is that without the CCA which they admit does not exist (it being dated c2001) they do not have a case. WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Have you admitted it's your account? Do they have statements or other financial info linking you to it? If no to both you can mount a "wrong person" defence. Otherwise most courts seem to be quite happy to accept reconstituted agreements at the moment so the fact that they don't have an original agreement means the odds (although probably not the law) are on their side. If you want to fight this purely on a CCA basis you would probably need to touch base with one of the solicitors firms that have had recent court successes in this respect.

"Why CCJ when you can CCA!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only reconstituted cca they have sent me is one statement and a blank application form. I'm not sure they even know the address I was at when the account was started.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You need to make them work a bit harder than that, perhaps something along the lines of "yes I did have several debts from a very long time ago but all the details here are wrong so this probably isn't one of mine. Please demonstrate unequivocally that this is actually my debt by at least providing an application form with my signature on it and I would be happy to discuss payment options with you. I also require this at the very least in order to provide assurance that the alleged debt has not been sold to another party." Also, you need to make them provide a total statement history showing exactly how the amount owing is calculated.

Edited by payingonlyencouragesthem

"Why CCJ when you can CCA!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

"How do I get them to send me evry document that they might rely on?"

 

You could SAR them to see what sort of ammo they've got, that's possibly the next best step to take. You need to try to be able to show the court that you were willing to discuss settlement terms with them if they could prove beyond reasonable doubt that the debt was actually yours and it hasn't been sold to someone else. If the SAR info fails to do this write to them demanding something with your signature on it plus documentary proof that the full amount claimed is correct.

"Why CCJ when you can CCA!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having looked in detail at their submission. They have the date of the alleged contract wrong, the address wrong, admitted that they have no copy of the contract and I have no recollection of ever signing the CCA and I know that I did not recieve any T&Cs or any credit card at the only meeting where I signed anythin. All of this I can prove with documentation from themselves. Shopuld be an interesting appearance shouldn't it?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having looked in detail at their submission. They have the date of the alleged contract wrong, the address wrong, admitted that they have no copy of the contract and I have no recollection of ever signing the CCA and I know that I did not recieve any T&Cs or any credit card at the only meeting where I signed anythin. All of this I can prove with documentation from themselves. Shopuld be an interesting appearance shouldn't it?

 

There's always a judge lottery danger that they will simply get a stay and be told to get their house in order via corrected dates, details, reconstituted agreements etc. IMO you do need to put them to strict proof that they are chasing the right person for the right debt. You might need to blow a bit of smoke up the relevant aperture:madgrin:

"Why CCJ when you can CCA!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends on what their submission relates to. If it is for a summary judgment application, you need to use the courts rules [CPR 31.14 & 31.18] to get documents and information out of DG solicitors. Have a look at the sticky above on using these two rules.

 

IMO a SAR application when you are at this stage is not much use (a) because the Bank take their allotted 40 days to the minute (b) it costs you £10 instead of zero for a CPR letter © the SAR application gets dealt with by a central team in Sheffield who have't a clue about a legal claim - or pretend they don't and (d) the information they supply isn't much use unless you are trying to calculate excessive charges.

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

Link to post
Share on other sites

What would be the best way to blow that smoke?

 

You basically need to find out everything they have on you and then thread an arguement through it that casts doubt on your actual ownership of the debt (yes you may have had an a/c but are you being chased for the right one? Is the amount correct? Might you have been a subsidiary or joint account holder not the actual / only borrower?). You could tell them that you would be happy to negotiate with them if they could show you something - anything - with your signature on that proves you applied for the credit and the debt is exclusively yours.

"Why CCJ when you can CCA!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

My understanding is that HSBC / DG definitely need an agreement with your signature on it unless...

 

1) this relates to an overdraft :scared: (and not a credit card / personal loan).

2) it's caught by cca2006 (I see you refer to 2001, so presumably not a concern for you).

 

I'd take Docman's advice in the first instance and slap them with CPR request - or did you already do one first time around? They may not respond but I suspect CCA agreement and default notice will be the ultimate battle ground. I would also SAR them just to see what it throws up - if you can spare the tenner.

 

Regards

 

 

The Lantana

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have also noted that on the 'true copy' of the agreement (which I never actually signed), there is nowhere for the bank to sign. I thought both parties were reqired to sign it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They don't actually need to have someone from the creditor sign in a particular box. It would be enough if they just stamped it - as long as it's got your signature on it.

 

The important thing to remember is that you must make a positive assertion in your defence that, while you may have signed an application form, you did not sign an enforceable agreement

Link to post
Share on other sites

They have admitted that the document does not exist. I know I never signed any agreement and I have no recall of every even signing an application form.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all.

 

I am now in need of some serious help with my defense as the court date has been set for July. The POC state as follows.

 

"The claimant's claim is for the balance outstanding under a credit card agreement dated xx/xx/2003 and numbered xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The defendant has failed to make payment of the arrears of instalments as required by the Statutary Default Notice served by the claimant dated xx/xx 2009.

 

AND the claimant claims

 

1) £xxxx.xx

2) Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at a rate of 8.0% per annum from the date hereof at a daily rate of £1 to the date of judgement or sooner payment.

 

No document ere attached to the POC, only blank forms have been sent to me and they have admitted that the originals do not exist. The judge has ordered that 14 days before the hearing all documents must be sent to all parties and the originals must be produced in court.

 

Where do I go from here?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi TWW

 

Check out my thread-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?277541-HSBC-Court-Claim-received-this-morning-Please-Help

 

may be of some help.

 

Andyorch & Docman were exceptionally helpful.

 

They issued a court summons. I defended the claim. I sent a CPR request. They sent a bunch of statements, an aplliaction form that someone at D&G Solicitors had kindly filled in with my name, some T&C's, a DN template.

They didnt have the CCA or the DN that I requested in the CPR request.

They then sent me the 'I must consent form'.

I never completed it.

The case was stayed becuse they never responded.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Honeypot

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. We seem to be having the same issues but mine is further on in that I have a court date. What I need is help with preparing my defense. Is there anyone on here that you think might be able to help?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have and they have admitted that they do not have the originals of the CCA or DNs or TN. They also do not have the first statement.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...