petguard insurance problem ** RESOLVED SUCCESSFULLY **

[melbury]

Throxenby,

 

I think you should definitely complain, the more people that do the better - there is no time limit.

 

I can't believe that anybody would use Petguard again even if they do find a new underwriter.

 

It is causing all of us such worry, I am totally paranoid about my dogs feet now.

[melbury]

I received yet another long letter today from a different department at JLT - in response to the Financial Ombudsman writing to them.

 

Again they explained at some length that it is due to NIG pulling out of the pet insurance market that has caused the problem and if I want to take to it further with the FO, I should request that they contact NIG and not themselves.

 

I am beginning to think it is not going to get me anywhere.

[gevans]

We also received a letter today telling us they were cancelling our cover and couldn't find us alternative cover, which makes a mockery of lifetime cover as no other company will cover our dogs pre-existing condition. I intend to pursue this all the way to the ombudsman as it's seems to easy a get out for the company who should honour their existing policies if the client wants to renew as they advertised them

[amanda460]

I had no idea all this was going on with Petguard, i've only found out today as I was looking for a claim form to take to the vets with me as my cat came home after been missing for 3 days, he's in a right state and can't walk on his hind lega plus his tail is just limp! I thought i'd pull off a form as it looks like any treatment will exceed the £60 excess. I found the message on Petguards site and thought 'how strange', waiting to ring them at 9am to ask whats what and where i stand. I should have known they were crap, i took out lifetime cover in September last year for my cat and my dog, both healthy animals with no pre-existing conditions, i received via email documents not containing my details nor my pets, when i rang them they said they had no reference to me, i explained they'd already taken a payment from my bank so they must have, in December i eventually got documentation showing my cover. Wondering if Petguard will be honouring new claims. They have been taking my monthly premium and I haven't been contacted to advise any problems. Mmm this may turn out to be interesting and expensive! I'm ringing them at 9am, i'll post an update after that.

[amanda460]

I eventually got through to Petguard who didnt mention any problems regarding my policy and are emailing me a claim form through, i'm assuming that because my animals are healthy and don't have any long term conditions then maybe I might be ok, however if my cat ends up with a long-term condition then this may change ???

I'll keep posting updates on how my claim goes folks - good luck to you all x

[PeKay]

Hi all.

 

I got my Petguard renewal in the post today, JTL Online have contracted a new insurance company to underwrite their policies, however pre existing conditions in my dog will not be covered in my lifetime policy from the date of renewal.

 

My existing 'lifetime' policy is 2 years old as is my dog, during that period I have made claim for orthopaedic work which was not foreseen when I bought my dog as an 8 week old puppy. There may be lifetime complications with the orthopaedic work in that arthritis will appear and arthroscopes may need to be performed again.

 

The cost has also risen 150% more since last year.

 

I did not know there was a problem with Petguard until I got the renewal today and then did some research which brought me here.

 

I have read all of the posts on this thread and have done the following.

 

1. Written to JTL Online stating that in my view they are in breach of trading standard rules as they sold me lifetime policy that clearly is anything but that

 

2. Contacted BBC Watchdog and left details of what has occurred.

 

3. Prepared a letter for the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards which I will send once I have a reply from JTL Online.

 

Meantime I have now taken out a policy with Axa as some have said they have done which seems pretty extensive but will of course exclude any pre existing condition.

 

I now have to face the fact that I may have serious financial impairment because of the miss selling of the 'lifetime' policy by JTL trading as Petguard Insurance.

 

Not impressed and not going to take this lying down and may even consider a County Court action which I think may be winable.........(?)

 

Does anyone have any results from the Ombudsman?

Edited August 4, 2011 by PeKay
spelling

[amanda460]

It all sounds very wrong doesnt it....Well i did have to make a claim, as per my previous post my little cat Billy had to be put to sleep after a 3 day stay at the vets, someone had delibrately injured him, he had 2 breaks to his spine, not fractures either actual 1 inch complete breaks consistent with being swung, i was distraught but it did result in him being put to sleep and me claiming.

I rang Pet Guard earlier in the week and they say its in hand but like you lot i guess if he had survived he also wouldn't have been covered for spinal injury when my renewal comes through.

I have a dog insured with them, i'm going to leave it running for another month til nearer renewal date and then cancel, i'm not going to take the risk that in the future if something happens to her then she won't be covered for whatever the following renewal year, if this makes sense.

I'm going to contact Direct Line who have been recommended to me and see what they quote.

I think its disgusting what they're doing and they surely must be in breach of their contracts with you guys.

Keep us posted x

[fidel]

I have only just been made aware of the issues with petguard/JLT online and after doing some digging on the internet came across this thread. My dog has been insured with petguard since he was 8 weeks old and like many others I specifically chose this policy as it enabled me to tailor the cover choices to my needs and to have 'lifelong' cover for my dog. I chose the highest cover option for vet fees £7,500 and chose the option where you are covered if a condition requires treatment in excess of 12months - which of course I paid extra for in my premium. Unfortunately for my dog he has had a succession of injuries and illnesses, none of which could have been foreseen when he was an 8 week old puppy from excellent breeding lines and with no close relatives having or have had subsequently the amount of illness he has suffered. My vet bills have run into the ££££'s and I was happy that petguard paid every claim, in full with no quibbles or queries, very promptly.

 

My policy is due to expire end of August and I was shocked to receive a letter from them on Saturday curtly stating that they would be unable to renew my policy and were unable to help me with any future insurance needs - no reason or further explanation was offered. I initally assumed it was because of the sheer costs of my claims but when I went online and found their website was down and then started to Google and come up with others in the same situation I realised I wasn't the only one in this awful situation. My expectations were that as long as I continued to pay my premiums (no matter if they increased, change in excess, changer in terms and conditions etc) that my dog would be covered for everything I chose for my policy for his lifetime. Instead I find myself in a situation where I am likely to suffer significant financial burden as no other insurer will cover any illness/injury/condition that I have claimed for under the petguard policy. Indeed I'm not even sure any other insurer will even quote me - I've yet to go down that route.

 

So far I have made formal complaints to petguard/JLT online, NIG, RBS Group Chief Executive. I have written to Dog World (and plan to contact more specialist dog media and general press and media) and Watchdog. I await an initial response from petgaurd/JLT online and then I too will lodge a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman and the FSA.

 

What I'd like to know is :

 

What date were petguard/JLT online first aware that NIG would no longer underwrite their policies?

What date was the petguard website taken down?

Has anyone got copies of the actual text of all the website pages before the site was taken down?

Does anyone know just how many customers of petgaurd/JLTonline have been told their policies will not be renewed?

How many of you have been offered renewal of your insurance but with no cover for pre-existing conditions?

Who is the underwriter petguard/JLT are using now?

Has anyone got any final response from either the Ombudsman, the FSA or any other consumer group?

Is anyone considering taking legal advice or has anyone taken any legal advice over this and would they share this with us?

Would anyone else consider joining a group action if we could organise one?

 

Anyone who can help with one, some or all of these questions please chip in! I am desperate for information and as quickly as possible. I am still shell shocked over this and cannot believe that an insurance company can 'lose' an underwriter - change to another one sure, change your premiums, terms and conditions etc but just dump you when you took out 'lifetime' cover???

 

Unbelieveable, unjust, unfair and just plain wrong.

[PeKay]

JLT knew the underwiters were pulling out yet they still took premiums.

 

That is dishonest never mind the rest of it!

 

Yes I would consider a group action, I have not yet taken legal advice

[TINK660]

Hi Fidel,

Sorry to hear you are in the same position as many of us have found ourselves. I for one would be more than willing to join a group action. It has left a lot of people in a severely compromised position regarding their pets health and wellbeing. You are so right in that it is unjust and unfair and unbelievable that they can do this.

Their website has been down for at least since April. NIG actually ceased doing pet insurance I think in August last year but according to Pet Guard it was early this year that they were made aware of this (codswallop if you ask me). They are not informing people until their policies are nearly due for renewal - WHY?

I dont have copies of the documentation online - but I'm sure someone will be able to help there. There are several people on here with the same problem but I'm sure there will be many more whose pets have fortunately not acquired a lifetime condition and who have just insured elsewhere after receiving Petguards letter. I dont know what underwriter Petguard are using now and I am still waiting for a decision from the Ombudsman - I think I was the first one on here to approach the FO back in April so I am going to chase them on this one - will let you know.

Have you had a response from Watchdog or any of the other organisations or media?

[fidel]

Thanks for your prompt replies PeKay and TINK660. As I only got my 'unable' to quote letter on Saturday I have only just started firing off all my complaints letters and emails to various press/media today so as yet I haven't had any replies save an acknowledgement of the receipt of my formal complaint from Christine Archard, Executive Director – Operations of JLT online. If I get any response from anyone I'll report back on here.

 

PeKay do you know yet who the underwriters are for the new policy JLT are offering you?

 

I'm on facebook and found a group called 'petguard/JLT online are f*cking bastards' - I empathise with the sentiment of that but although I joined the group it doesn't appear to have any recent action on it although about 80 people belong to the group. Anyone else use fb? We could set up a group page and share letters, replies and experiences and hopefully begin to raise the profile of this. I don't 'do' twitter but that's another media open to us.

 

If we try and raise the issue with specialist pet press, local press and TV, national press, breed clubs etc we may strike lucky and get some coverage which will reach more people who no doubt are in the same situation and will undoubtedly put pressure on those bodies involved in this mess to do more to help us. If you include a photo of yourself and your pet, or just your pet looking suitably forlorn... this will help get your communication more notice

 

I am furious with the FSA who regulate this insurance market and fully intend to blast a few missives their way. They themselves did an interim report in 2007 which included a section on the pet insurance market (I can't post a link yet as I apparently haven't made enough posts on this forum but if you search pet insurance on the FSA wesite it comes under the search result ICOB Interim Report - Consumer experiences and outcomes in general insurance markets - look at section 5.3) I think it’s about time they carried out a full investigation and researched this market and customers’ experiences further and made some changes to what is acceptable policy wording, terms and conditions, terms of business and what is made clear in the key facts that come with every policy. It should be made very clear to you if the underwriter of the policy is not the company providing you with the policy and what possible effects there could be to your policy if the underwriter changes. I didn’t have a clue about any of this and I consider myself to be a savvy internet shopper

 

I've no idea yet about any legal standing we may have but will try to pursue this further and find out more about any possibility of a group action against the main culprit whoever that turns out to be. Regardless of that though, it's the utter unfairness and not informing your customers in a prompt and timely fashion that not only have you taken your website down but that there is an issue with your product and its underwriter - which is pretty fundamental stuff for an internet retailer selling insurance don't you think?

[PeKay]

'Regardless of that though, it's the utter unfairness and not informing your customers in a prompt and timely fashion that not only have you taken your website down but that there is an issue with your product and its underwriter - which is pretty fundamental stuff for an internet retailer selling insurance don't you think?'

Very much so.

The FSA seems to be moving quite slowly here as there are no real replies to progress requests from those who have already contacted them

 

Now as to who their new underwriter is:-

 

Amlin Syndicate 2001 at Lloyd's managed by Amlin Underwriting Limited.

 

In bold print on my letter JLT say;

 

"It is important that we draw your attention to how the change of insurer will affect your veterinary fee claims for continuation treatment for an existing condition. Unfortunately we will not be able to pay for any ongoing treatment costs arising on or after your renewal date or for any condition that has shown signs or symptoms or has been identified or investigated by a vet or is otherwise known to you prior to (the renewal date here)."

[PeKay]

You would be looking at a Class Action against JLT and NIG, possibly RBS as well

 

We will have to go through the first steps before we get there though with FSA Trading Standards and so on... letters and more letters, although if a no win no fee can be found and consulted to see if we have a case all well and good. There are no doubt specialist Law firms who deal with this sort of thing somewhere?

 

I don't twitter or facebook for personal reasons.

[fidel]

Thanks for that info PeKay - very useful. Totally understand about not using twitter and facebook - I'm very careful with my usage of it.

 

I am left wondering why it appears petguard are offering some customers renewal albeit with no more cover for pre-existing conditions and yet are not offering renewal at all to other customers like myself?

 

I've fired off emails, left right and centre trying to drum up some interest in this but no luck so far but ever hopeful. If I do get any interest from anyone I'll confirm on here.

 

Got reply from Stephen Hester's office (Chief Exec RBS) who have passed complaint on to a 'case manager' in their 'Insurance' team.

[kambrose]

I insured my 2 dogs with Petguard last September - cost of £370 for their best cover (like a lot of other people I liked the fact that I could choose the bits of cover I wanted - liked the reasonable excess, £7,500 vet fees and lifetime cover). I have made 3 small claims (just put another in - fingers crossed) Yes they will renew my cover, but not for any pre-existing conditions - they've upped the excess to £100 and want a premium of....£848!!!!!

 

NB The letter says the new underwriters are: Amlin Syndicate 2001 at Lloyd's, managed by Amilin Underwriting Limited.

[melbury]

I got very negative responses from JLT Online, basically just saying it wasn't their fault and that any complaint should be brought against NIG. I copied all of the various letters to the Ombudsman a few weeks ago and had an acknowledgement saying they are pretty snowed under at the moment, but I would be hearing from them in due course.

 

I personally don't think we will get anywhere, even though it is totally unfair and we have been left with the worry of having to find a lot of money for potential vet bills. I have taken out a new policy with More Than, but of course that does not cover any pre-existing conditions and it is the pre-existing condition he has that is the most likely thing to occur.

 

It is very worrying; I am getting totally paranoid, if he lifts a foot off the ground my heart jumps!!

 

Please all keep posting.

[fidel]

kambrose and melbury - thanks for sharing your stories and joining in the thread although I'm sorry to see you're in the same boat. The more interest we can generate the better- I really think we have been hoodwinked into buying a policy that doesn't do what is says on the tin. I don't care if it's 'standard practice'. If it is, then the standard practice is unfair and morally wrong and needs to be changed. If nothing else is achieved I really hope we can persuade the FSA to have a thorough shake up of the pet insurance market

 

I've received a pretty standard response from Christine Archard, Executive Director, Operations - JLT online. I'll try to attach it but may need to post some more before this forum 'allows' me to do so.

 

Her argument in effect is that lifetime cover does not oblige an insurer to offer renewal of a contract (and your policy is renewed every 12 months) but that veterinary fees and condition limits are reinstated at renewal, if renewal is offered, and this allows for continous treatment for ongoing or lifetime conditions .

 

My argument is that the marketing of these policies, the wording used on web sites, in policy documents, keyfacts, terms and conditions and terms of business (especially in petguard/JLT online's case) does not make it clear when you take out the policy that cover may be withdrawn if there is a change of underwriter who will not honour/renew existing customers' policies who have a 'claim' history, albeit a legitimate one. This is in essence an unfair contract which has unfair terms and conditions which are not transparent at the time you purchase the policy. I was sold a 'lifetime' cover policy that would cover my dog as long as I continued to pay my premiums. I was not told my cover could be withdrawn if a new underwriter came on board.

 

The term 'lifetime' should not be be used at all when selling pet insurance policies if this is the case. End of.

 

The FSA need to clean up the pet insurance market and stop people like us being taken for mugs by companies like petguard/JLT online and thier underwriters who by refusing to renew our policies or by refusing to continue to cover pre-existing conditions are leaving us to suffer significant financial burden if we have a pet who suffers a reoccurence of a previous injury/illness already claimed for and/or who has an ongoing and/or lifetime condition that we expected to be covered when we took out a 'lifetime' policy.

 

The more people that write and complain to the FSA, NIG, petguard/JLT, RBS the better!

[PeKay]

Got the same letter by the looks of it also today but also mentioning that NIG paid out far more in claims than they got in subscriptions from policies.

 

I can see why NIG would want to pull out and blame the greedy unsculpuous vets who pump up the bills purely in my view to fleece the insurance copmpanies, but thats another story!

[totiesquoties]

hi PeKay,

 

glad this thread is still going on, keep it going you guys, the more that read this and are aware of, the less others may not fall into the same problems. totiesquoties, well done all.

[melbury]

I totally agree about vets inflating the bills if they know you are insured - that is the first thing they seem to ask when we take our dog in - "have you got insurance?" I often wonder what the bill would come to if I said no!

 

I will certainly be asking for a price up front when he next has to have treatment for his ongoing problem, trouble is they have got you over a barrel because you want your pet fixed and when they are ill the cost isn't your top priority.

 

It seems like Petguard/JLT/Thistle are sending out pretty standard letters to everyone who has complained. I never did get a response from NIG - how rude is that?

Edited August 12, 2011 by melbury

[melbury]

Just to let you know that I received a letter from the Financial Ombudsman today saying that having reviewed everything I sent to them, they concur with JLT in that the complaint needs to be referred to NIG. They have forwarded details of my complaint on to NIG and asked them to respond directly to me. If I don't hear anything after 8 weeks, I am advised to contact the Ombudsman again.

 

Obviously the whole problem has arisen due to NIG pulling out as underwriters, but I still think that JLT/Petguard handled it all very badly with their lack of communication and shutting down their website - they acted like ostriches! Surely they can't believe that anyone will use them again for pet insurance after behaving like this.

 

In the letter I received today it says that the address for NIG is as follows (just in case any of you want to write to them yourselves):

 

Mrs Alison James

The National Insurance & Guarantee Corporation Ltd

RBS Insurance

Mail Point 5. Churchill Court

Westmoreland Road

Bromley

Kent

BR1 1DP

[fidel]

Thanks very much for that feedback melbury and the contact details for NIG. I emailed my complaint to NIG during the week but have yet to even receive any acknowledgement of receipt which I asked for.. so I'll post my complaint to them as well.

 

I'm a bit perplexed at the Ombudsman's advice but don't know enough about contracts and the legalese to understand their thinking. I suppose it could be that petguard/JLT as brokers were merely acting as agents 'under licence' for NIG and although petguard/JLT bascially handled the money and administration it was on behalf of NIG so NIG may be the main culprits.

 

As NIG are part of RBS if anyone wants to pile on more pressure I suggest they also email a complaint about this and NIG to Stephen Hester, Chief Executive of Royal Bank of Scotland who NIG are part of. I can't yet post email addresses (need 10 or more posts apparently..) but his email address is in this format:

 

firstname.lastname @ rbs.co.uk (obvioulsy all linked together in one word email address format)

 

 

Because you email the Chief Executive, it will get a reply and it will be logged and passed onto a relevant team to deal with. Whether or not we get anywhere with this remains to be seen but nothing ventured and all that folks!

 

(I for one will be like a dog with a bone on this one as I feel so strongly about being sold a policy which I consider to have been falsely represented to me)

[melbury]

I had a telephone call today at work from NIG in response to the Ombudsman contacting them. It wasn't Mrs. Alison James who apparently is the manager of that department, but a lady who works for her. I have to say that she was very nice and very sympathetic about the predicament that we are in.

 

She said that NIG have stopped underwriting ALL personal insurances - i.e. motor, household, pet, travel etc - and are now only dealing in commercial insurance. I said why, when they ceased underwriting pet insurance last August, were Petguard still selling policies? She didn't seem to know anything about this, but said she would look into it.

 

Apparently I will be getting a written response from them in due course and then have to decide whether or not to go back to the Ombudsman.

 

I did say that they would undoubtedly be getting many more complaints about this and just how upsetting it is to be left with no cover for our pets when we thought we had done the right thing.

[TINK660]

Melbury, At least you got a phone call - more than I got! but then when I complained back in April/May it was probably on a much lower scale than it is now and the FO were only just getting involved.

 

Still awaiting any news from FO.

[fidel]

Curiouser and curiouser...

 

I've been busy online getting various quotes for the new insurance policy I am being forced to take out for my dog following the 'unable to renew' farce at petguard/JLT online following as we have been told their underwriters NIG withdrawing from the UK pet insurance market.

 

I was on the Virgin Money site getting a quote for a policy that would just cover accident and illness when I noticed to the side of the screen this statement:

 

Virgin Pet Insurance is underwritten by UK Insurance Limited who are authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. UK Insurance Limited is part of The Royal Bank of Scotland Group. FSA register number: 202810.

 

Since NIG are part of the RBS Group I was mildly puzzled that it appears a RBS company is still in the pet insurance market. And then I read:

 

Note - UK Insurance Limited (UKI) is planning to become the underwriter of policies issued by other members within the insurance division of The Royal Bank of Scotland Group from December 2011. UKI is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

The change will not affect your insurance cover. To find out more, visit: LINK

 

**Well this is fascinating - I haven't read it all yet but initially I'm thinking if this is the case, then why did not the policies NIG were underwriting transfer to UKI in December 2011? Let's all have a read and see what we can find out..

 

I still can't post links to web sites but the link to the UKI transfer website with all the info is in the following format

 

www dot ukitransfer dot com

 

** Edit: I obviously got too excited and ahead of myself since we haven't got to December 2011 yet have we?! But it's still interesting that UKI is taking over policies including those underwritten NIG from that date and so it seems that RBS Group will still have a finger in the pet insurance pie. Still think it's all worth a read through to see if there's anything relevant to our situation in there.

Edited August 17, 2011 by fidel