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    • OK, then use the letter dx mentions in post 34 as your starting point.  It obviously needs to be tweaked and bits cut out that are different from your case.  I would also add:   "Your clients know full well I was not the driver, so as I was nowhere near the Airport Pub I couldn't enter into any contract with your clients, even someone with GCSE grade 1 in law could work that out.  No keeper liability has been established and to boot the signage is a prohibition.   I'm sure you read DDJ Harvey's judgement in Lewes on 24 April.  Not very happy with the Unicorn Food Tax companies like your clients make up, was he?   Your clients can either drop this foolishness now or get a good hiding in court, both are fine by me.  A juicy unreasonable costs order under CPR27.14(2)(g) would do nicely to finance my winter holiday.   COPIED TO SMART PARKING"   Put the ideas together then please put up a draft of what you propose to send.
    • They haven’t served me the application or any documents at all    I only know this because I rang the court    protocols don’t apply To  them apparently      they haven’t followed any rules - just pressure all time  but I have a defence and I’m entitled to have my time in court with it 
    • You need to be very carefully want you sign or agree to !   I'm afraid 11 years won't make any difference when it comes to AST https://tinyurl.com/yylxnpmc   Rent increase https://tinyurl.com/y3xhgtsb   If they want the property back using s21 notice read on https://tinyurl.com/ycmqz9ds   or s8 notice read on https://tinyurl.com/ydhejzrk   Links take you to shelter website assuming you live in E&W.
    • I'm not to bothered about the grief they would give us, it's easier to deal with knowing they can't do anything, tad used to it now.   If a letter to them now can also deal with it without naming the BIL, then that would be good to. The OH has said she doesn't want to go anywhere near a court as that is not her thing, so need to avoid that too. Obviously she shouldn't need to go through that as she wasn't driving.    
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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    • Ahmed Alwaheeb's firms sold cars riddled with faults – and which sometimes had government recall notices. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/427369-ahmed-alwaheebs-firms-sold-cars-riddled-with-faults-%E2%80%93-and-which-sometimes-had-government-recall-notices/&do=findComment&comment=5071860
      • 3 replies
    • @curryspcworld @TeamKnowhowUK - Samsung 75 8K TV - completely broken by Currys. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/426151-samsung-75-8k-tv-completely-broken-by-currys/&do=findComment&comment=5069075
      • 8 replies
    • @skinnyfoodco Skinny Foods. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/426130-skinny-foods/&do=findComment&comment=5068996
      • 8 replies

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SORRY MEANT TO POST AS A NEW THREAD.

 

Hi all

 

 

Here is post i posted over one year ago and a post on PAINSMITH'S SOLICITOR's blog. To my mind this is the first court decision made under these regulations. "ESTATE AGENTS BE WARNED CANCELLATION NOTICE REQUIRED"

 

 

"Yes it is a contract law matter. For this contract to be legally enforceable you must have been given a NOTICE OF RIGHT TO CANCEL IN THE PRESCRIBED FORM contained in the written contract.

 

Failure to provide this mandatory written notice render's the contract unenforceable in law.

 

The relavent legistration is The Cancellation Of Contracts Made In A Consummers Home Or PLace Of Work Ect, Regulations 2008 SI 2008 NO.1861

 

I am of course replying to your post on the understanding that you were not given a cancellation notice--------- I have yet to see an Estate Agents marketing contract that complied with the law."

 

 

20 March, 2011 • 23:40 0

Cancellation Notice

 

In a recent case in Watford county courtlink3.gif an agent sought his commission for the successful sale of a property in October 2009.

The Defendant defended the claim on the basis that no Cancellation

Notice in the prescribed form pursuant to the Cancellation of Contracts in a Consumer’s home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 had been served.

In response to this defence the agent was relying on schedule 3 of the Regulations which excludes certain contracts from the Regulations. One such contract is for the sale or rental of immovable property.

However, the court held that the contract entered into by the parties was not a contract for the sale or rental of immovable property but one of marketing and as such schedule 3 did not apply.

The court also held that this was a commission contract and therefore caught by the Regulations. Therefore where no Cancellation Notice had been provided then pursuant to clause 7(6) the contract is unenforceable.

The agent’s case was dismissedlink3.gif.

Thank you to Mr Kennedy who brought this case to our attention.

 

LAWDOCTOR.

Edited by lawdoctor
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  • 7 months later...
Hello. I have been searching the internet for days to try and find a case result such as this one. Would this apply to the dreaded 'Business Transfer Agents' ? Thank you

 

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Would you be able to elaborate on your question please?

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello Honey bee.

We signed a contract with a 'Business transfer agent' a few years ago.

 

It was to sell a Guest House.

 

We paid £600 upfront.

 

No success so we terminated the contract with them.

 

Shortly after the contract had terminated, we were able to sell it ourselves.

 

Out of the blue, nearly 18 months we have received an invoice for £6k from the business transfer agent

as they say they were still contracted to be 'sole agents' as the sale of the property went through so soon after the contract terminated.

 

Regardless of this, Watford County Court appear to have set a precedence with the above ruling.

 

The internet is littered with complaints about these types of businesses sending out invoices once the property is sold

or demanding the 'withdrawal fee' of anything from £600 upwards.

 

We at least had the £995+VAT excluded from our contract.

 

Even though these types of businesses do not seem to do a great deal

but still send out the invoices even when they did not sell the property.

 

We were told there would be no cooling off period as it was a 'business to business' transaction which was signed in our own home.

 

Interpret what the above ruling says it could be applied to 'business to business' ?

 

Thank you for your time.

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What did your contract say about cancelling and if there was any bleed off period where, after cancelling, the agent would still be entitled to commission. Or was there no cancellation clause at all ?

 

If you signed it at home (away from the agents business premise) then Cancellation rights apply.. dont they ?

 

There seems to be quite a bit of information on google regarding the right to cancel.

 

http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/clock-counts-new-cooling-regulations/

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Just thinking out loud. If you sold it yourself, doesn't that make him still the 'sole agent' as you aren't an agent but the owner.

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Hello again Everyone. Thank you for your feedback. To try and answer everyone in one go -

 

 

"Just thinking out loud. If you sold it yourself, doesn't that make him still the 'sole agent' as you aren't an agent but the owner."

The contract says 'sole selling rights' (including ourselves not trying to sell it).

 

 

"If you signed it at home (away from the agents business premise) then Cancellation rights apply.. dont they ?"

It is a grey area depending on how you read the law.

 

 

"What did your contract say about cancelling and if there was any bleed off period where, after cancelling, the agent would still be entitled to commission. Or was there no cancellation clause at all ? "

We cancelled the contract with them as per the agreement. Can't say anymore than that.

 

 

"Watford county court can't set a precedence"

Thank you for clarifying. Will keep searching and hope the thought of the bad publicity it will generate for the BTA will be enough for them to eventually back down. We do have a solicitor working on our behalf.

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Hi MarkLewis1972

 

 

If your case is the same or very similar, there is nothing to stop you using the same arguments and law as the individual in that case won. But you couldn't use that as a 'precedent' in your case. Best thing might be to get a copy of the Judgement and take a closer look.

 

'"Watford county courtlink3.gif can't set a precedence"

Thank you for clarifying. Will keep searching and hope the thought of the bad publicity it will generate for the BTA will be enough for them to eventually back down. We do have a solicitor working on our behalf.'

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"If your case is the same or very similar, there is nothing to stop you using the same arguments and law as the individual in that case won. But you couldn't use that as a 'precedent' in your case. Best thing might be to get a copy of the Judgement and take a closer look."

 

 

Thank you. Do you know how I can get hold of the details of this judgement? Thanks in advance.

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You could contact Watford County Court, you only have the year to go by, so won't be easy.

 

"If your case is the same or very similar, there is nothing to stop you using the same arguments and law as the individual in that case won. But you couldn't use that as a 'precedent' in your case. Best thing might be to get a copy of the Judgement and take a closer look."

 

 

Thank you. Do you know how I can get hold of the details of this judgement? Thanks in advance.

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