ESA re-application following a failed ESA appeal

[semayden]

So, provided we were failed at medical assessment by ATOS 6 months or more ago - those of us attending tribunals in the near future, and who FAIL them (sigh) will be able to walk out and re'submit a claim for ESA (same condition, blah, blah) all over again? If the answer is yes, that helps calm me, lol.

[frank_begbie]

So, provided we were failed at medical assessment by ATOS 6 months or more ago - those of us attending tribunals in the near future, and who FAIL them (sigh) will be able to walk out and re'submit a claim for ESA (same condition, blah, blah) all over again? If the answer is yes, that helps calm me, lol.

 

You just keep re claiming until you retire:lol:

[semayden]

So, provided we were failed at medical assessment by ATOS 6 months or more ago - those of us attending tribunals in the near future, and who FAIL them (sigh) will be able to walk out and re'submit a claim for ESA (same condition, blah, blah) all over again? If the answer is yes, that helps calm me, lol.

 

Sorry, I know you said we could carry on claiming until the day we die - but I seriously want to know whether I can walk out of a failed 1st tier tribunal and immediately submit a claim for ESA again.

[frank_begbie]

Sorry, I know you said we could carry on claiming until the day we die - but I seriously want to know whether I can walk out of a failed 1st tier tribunal and immediately submit a claim for ESA again.

 

 

As long as your Doctor has given you a new sick note, you can reclaim.

[semayden]

As long as your Doctor has given you a new sick note, you can reclaim.

 

Thanks for answering me! Am I also correct in thinking that there would be a delay between tribunal decision and benefits being informed? In other words, I am due a dose of ESA on 5th Dec. (following 21st Nov. one) and wonder if that would be stopped in its tracks on the day of the tribunal (1st Dec.) or if it would run on for a while anyway. It's an awful time of year to be worrying about money!!!

[frank_begbie]

Thanks for answering me! Am I also correct in thinking that there would be a delay between tribunal decision and benefits being informed? In other words, I am due a dose of ESA on 5th Dec. (following 21st Nov. one) and wonder if that would be stopped in its tracks on the day of the tribunal (1st Dec.) or if it would run on for a while anyway. It's an awful time of year to be worrying about money!!!

 

I went onto JSA for a few days after my Tribunal hearing, as I wasn't sure what to do, and didn't want to lose out on any benefits.

I ended up losing a few days money doing it that way. I had the hassle of making an appointment with my Doctor (which lost me a few days) so she could give me a new sick note then reapplied for ESA.

(Doctors won't backdate sick notes, so you have to be prepared for this).

 

I am currently waiting for my second Atos "medical" appointment, which I fully expect to fail again, and will have to go through the whole process again.

This time however I intend to get a new sick note before I get the result from Atos, so I can appeal and get my claim in straight away, when I need to.

[semayden]

I went onto JSA for a few days after my Tribunal hearing, as I wasn't sure what to do, and didn't want to lose out on any benefits.

I ended up losing a few days money doing it that way. I had the hassle of making an appointment with my Doctor (which lost me a few days) so she could give me a new sick note then reapplied for ESA.

(Doctors won't backdate sick notes, so you have to be prepared for this).

 

I am currently waiting for my second Atos "medical" appointment, which I fully expect to fail again, and will have to go through the whole process again.

This time however I intend to get a new sick note before I get the result from Atos, so I can appeal and get my claim in straight away, when I need to.

 

Yes, I've already made an app. with my doc for a new ESA sicknote (booked it for the day after the tribunal = just in case!).

 

Your 2nd ATOS medical? Is this following a tribunal? I'm not sure I understand.

[frank_begbie]

Yes, I've already made an app. with my doc for a new ESA sicknote (booked it for the day after the tribunal = just in case!).

 

Your 2nd ATOS medical? Is this following a tribunal? I'm not sure I understand.

 

Yes this is my second term on ESA. Just waiting for the date for my medical now.

[taraquin]

I may be completely wrong, but I heard that if you re-apply for ESA following a failed Tribunal hearing AND it is more than 6 months from the last decision AND it is for the same illness, you will NOT receive any payment until you pass the new medical. If you reclaim with a NEW condition or that the original condition has worsened, then you will be paid.

 

Or was it that you would not get any money whilst waiting for a Tribunal hearing?

Not too sure it was one or the other.

 

There was some talk about this roundabout thing in the papers a few weeks back.

[semayden]

Yes this is my second term on ESA. Just waiting for the date for my medical now.

 

I thought we just went from tribunal to tribunal. Are you telling me that between each tribunal liies a fresh ATOS medical? Or is that for worsened/new conditions?

[count orlok]

I think what happens is: You are sick/disabled get a sick-note from doctor, apply for ESA and get turned down by ATOS (while still on sick note from doctor) go for appeal, fail appeal. You are sick/disabled get a sick-note from doctor, apply for ESA and get turned down by ATOS (while still on sick note from doctor) go for appeal, fail appeal. You are sick/disabled get a sick-note from doctor, apply for ESA and get turned down by ATOS (while still on sick note from doctor) go for appeal, fail appeal. Ad infinitum.

[frank_begbie]

I thought we just went from tribunal to tribunal. Are you telling me that between each tribunal liies a fresh ATOS medical? Or is that for worsened/new conditions?

 

Yes. Everyone knows its bull, but they have to be seen as doing the right thing. So you have to go through the same hoops as you did the first time.

Its a pain, but at least you don't have to go back to signing on and looking for jobs that are totally unsuitable for you, while being harassed byAdvisors.

[frank_begbie]

I may be completely wrong, but I heard that if you re-apply for ESA following a failed Tribunal hearing AND it is more than 6 months from the last decision AND it is for the same illness, you will NOT receive any payment until you pass the new medical. If you reclaim with a NEW condition or that the original condition has worsened, then you will be paid.

 

Or was it that you would not get any money whilst waiting for a Tribunal hearing?

Not too sure it was one or the other.

 

There was some talk about this roundabout thing in the papers a few weeks back.

 

Yes it got mentioned in the papers a week or so ago.

Because of all the appeals taking place, its costing a fortune and they don't like it.

 

I don't think they would get away with bringing that in, as people would be outraged.

 

They'll have to change the Atos medical instead, so you don't need so many appeals.

 

They've made a rod for their own back with this one.

[taraquin]

Thanks, I thought it was one of them. I presume that they would expect someone to claim JSA if they want to appeal a decision, otherwise they would have no money coming in.

 

It's as though there should be a third benefit for those not ill enough to get ESA, but too ill to claim JSA and look for a job!

[semayden]

Yes. Everyone knows its bull, but they have to be seen as doing the right thing. So you have to go through the same hoops as you did the first time.

Its a pain, but at least you don't have to go back to signing on and looking for jobs that are totally unsuitable for you, while being harassed byAdvisors.

So Taraquin is simply pointing out what's been under discussion - not what has been brought in?

 

Getting accurate info. is like getting blood out of stones. My lawyer (free legal aid) has never told me that I go for another ATOS if I fail this 1st tribunal. She has only spoken of finding an 'error in law' to be able to go for 2nd tribunal. I really feel quite mad at times and don't know who to believe!!!

[Nystagmite]

It has been mentioned; but isn't law yet.

[taraquin]

So Taraquin is simply pointing out what's been under discussion - not what has been brought in?

 

Getting accurate info. is like getting blood out of stones. My lawyer (free legal aid) has never told me that I go for another ATOS if I fail this 1st tribunal. She has only spoken of finding an 'error in law' to be able to go for 2nd tribunal. I really feel quite mad at times and don't know who to believe!!!

 

As far as I am aware, there are two options if you fail the 1st Tribunal. You can appeal to the Higher Court on a point of law, but very much doubt that you will receive any benefit whilst this progresses through the system.

 

Or you start from scratch again with a new ESA claim, another medical and if needed another !st Tribunal and currently still get your benefit whilst waiting for the second Tribunal.

 

All depends if you need the money or want to fight the DWP on a legal point of law for the principle.

[semayden]

Or you start from scratch again with a new ESA claim, another medical and if needed another !st Tribunal and currently still get your benefit whilst waiting for the second Tribunal.

.

 

Thank you for your help. I understand more clearly now. Can I 'start from scratch with a new ESA claim', based on the same condition?

[taraquin]

At the moment, yes and receive the assessment rate of ESA. You can only do this if there is a clear 6 month gap between the date of the letter that the DWP sent you telling you that you failed the ATOS assessment (the letter that you appealed against) and now.

 

There are different rules if it is a new illness or a worsening of the old one.

[semayden]

At the moment, yes and receive the assessment rate of ESA. You can only do this if there is a clear 6 month gap between the date of the letter that the DWP sent you telling you that you failed the ATOS assessment (the letter that you appealed against) and now.

 

There are different rules if it is a new illness or a worsening of the old one.

 

Hmmm, I know my ATOS assessment was on 29th March of this year - but I can't remeber where I put the refusal letter! Must search.

[semayden]

Found it! The letter saying that 'you are not entitled to ESA from 11th April 2011', which followed the ATOS medical on 29th March 2011. That will be over 7 1/2 months from there to tribunal on the 1st December. So, if I fail, I can walk out and claim immediately the basic rate ESA on form GL24 in respect of exactly the same condition (FM/ME)? Is that correct?

[Nystagmite]

You don't need to fill in a GL24 - just start a new claim.

[stalin's dead]

You can make a new ESA application with the same condition just as long as it's been 6 months from the date your previous claim was rejected. Better still if you spent months going through the appeal process. Evidently from what you have said it's been 7 1/2 months for you so yes you can make a fresh claim

 

 

Good luck

[semayden]

Thank you, all of you, for helping me so much. Honestly, I don't know what I would have done without your various inputs.

 

Just a couple more questions and then I'll be quiet!

 

a) This fresh claim - based on same condition - is the one that can be done over the phone I think. Does that sound right?. I think I did the original claim over the phone to someone in my local jobcentre.

 

b) Obviously, I am afraid that the tribunal being so close to Christmas - I could end up having no ESA money coming in for weeks. Is my 'old claim' (assuming I fail tribunal) likely to stop on the very day of the tribunal, or would it run on for a few weeks?

 

c) When I ring to make fresh claim, can they refuse me there and then - or are they obliged to let me climb on the merry-go-round again!

[stalin's dead]

Thank you, all of you, for helping me so much. Honestly, I don't know what I would have done without your various inputs.

 

Just a couple more questions and then I'll be quiet!

 

a) This fresh claim - based on same condition - is the one that can be done over the phone I think. Does that sound right?. I think I did the original claim over the phone to someone in my local jobcentre.

 

b) Obviously, I am afraid that the tribunal being so close to Christmas - I could end up having no ESA money coming in for weeks. Is my 'old claim' (assuming I fail tribunal) likely to stop on the very day of the tribunal, or would it run on for a few weeks?

 

c) When I ring to make fresh claim, can they refuse me there and then - or are they obliged to let me climb on the merry-go-round again!

 

 

-

 

 

semayden

 

6 months must have passed from the ending of your old claim to the start of your new claim. That is the most important thing to note. If this requirement as been satisfied then call the DWP and say you'd like to make a fresh application for ESA. They can't refuse your claim if the 6 month rule as been satisfied. You are treated like any other new ESA claimant. Of course you have to submit doctors notes to cover the period of application until you are, assuming you are, successful in your claim.

 

I appealed my first claim and lost the appeal. They stopped my money a week after the appeal date but the 6 month rule had been satisfied so I called the DWP, made a fresh claim asap and submitted doctors note.

 

Good luck