Pcn for parking in resident bay, CONTRAVENTION CODE: 85

[Dablink]

Hello all,

Just got a parking ticket for parking in a resident bay. No signs on display to show its a resident bay and time allowed to park. Although on further investigation after getting the PCN I found out there was a sign at the entrance of the estate which you can see from one of the pictures is almost hidden at the right hand side (I didn't see the sign when I drove in...honestly). Pictures uploaded...ticket also uploaded

 

UPDATE: On the ticket envelope it says APCOA working for hackney council. LONDON BOROUGH OF HACKNEY.....also on the ticket it says hackney council...scanned and uploaded...is this a private PCN?....cos if thats the case I know I should ignore it...

UPDATE 2: They also got the colour of my car wrong!!!!....does that count also?

 

Cheers and thanks to all comments in advance.

Regards

Edited March 22, 2011 by Dablink

[sailor sam]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Unfortunately we cannot read the ticket as it is too small. try uploading via Photobucket.com. In the meatime, why not ring the LA to check that APCOA are actually working for them. To be honest I would imagine they are as they are using the term 'penalty' on the sign as well as the council's logo. The wrong colour stated on a PCN isn't normally relevant providing the VRM and make are correct. What were your reasons for parking there... were you visiting a resident?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I reckon that this is a PPC contracted by the council on a local authority estate.

As such it has the validity of any other PPC ticket IMHO

[starfarer]

That's council PCN. Code 85 is usually issued in car parks when parked in reserved permit bay without a valid permit. Some councils do issue on Housing estate but not ALL. Check with Hackney whether they enforce housing estates. Googling came up with these http://www.hackneyhomes.org.uk/hhs-parking.htm. Most places these "homes" residential parking is private and councils don't enforce them. This is very easy mistake to made by new CEO in the area.

[Surfer01]

The sign does state "Penalty Charge Notice" as opposed to "Parking Charge Notice" so probably is legal. However if there is poor signage it could be a way out.

[Dablink]

Thanks guys for the advice...I would try loading through photobucket.com...

[Dablink]

Okies I uploaded all to photbucket but unfortunately the forum can't allow me to post the link until I have 20 posts...(which would take a while cos I dont wanna spam the website just because I need 20 posts....that would be very bad and I'm sure the mods wouldnt like that)

 

So I would have 2 wait a little bit longer....sorry guys...but thanks all the same...

Edited March 22, 2011 by Dablink

[Dablink]

Hello all,

 

This is what I plan to send out....please feel free to comment...

 

Dear Hackney council services,

I’m writing an informal representation in regards to the above penalty charge notice (PCN) issued against vehicle with registration xxxxxx on the grounds that “the alleged contravention did not occur” and “there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority” in this case Hackney Council. I hereby state my case below:

 

Ø There is no traffic management order which establishes the restriction which I'm alleged to have contravened; consequently there is no restriction and no contravention.

 

In the event that there is such a traffic order and you believe it occurred and should be enforced under the provisions of the Traffic Management Act 2004 then could you provide me with evidence to this effect? I would also require the following:

i. Parking Order for the parking area.

ii. Authority for the sign on display

iii. Authorisation and order from the Department for Transport for the single sign and not merely an assertion from you in statement or letter.

 

May I also point you that the only single sign at the side of the fence in the estate (attached to this letter) was hidden away, non reflective (which would have made it more visible to the public at night) and has no glare from the sign itself (lighting). This does not conform to the regulation (section 64 of the Road Traffic Act 1984) which makes any restrictions on it non-enforceable and unlawful. This sign is also chipped away and peeling all over. I did not see this sign on making my entry into the estate and looked all over the premises for any signage when I parked my car.

I then proceeded to make my way into the estate and as I got to the second floor I noticed a figure loitering around my car. This figure was peering into my car and I tried to get the figure’s attention. A casual glance was given to me and I could make out some activity going on with the figures’ back to me. I had no idea who this was until I arrived at my vehicle and noticed the PCN which shows this figure is a CEO. I would like to inform you the CEO in question was not wearing a recognizable uniform or hat to portray him as a CEO of Hackney and would like to request for the details of what comprises a CEO’s uniform as checks should be made by the CEO before each shift and putting into consideration a CEO may not issue a PCN unless wearing the prescribed and recognizable uniform.

Ø The presence of double yellow lines (shown in the picture also attached) also gives the vicinity/area the appearance of being on street and so it was reasonable to expect to find familiar on street signage on the wall or on poles around but on finding none, considered that no restriction applied to the bays (which was basically why I was checking and rechecking for signs)

 

This brings me to the second part of my informal representation: “there has been a procedural impropriety on the part of the enforcement authority”

Ø The PCN issued states at the back “if the penalty charge is not paid within 28 days a Notice to Owner requiring full payment may be served on the owner of the vehicle by Hackney Council” (The 'within' rule gives the effect of an extra day) but the front section of the PCN states “This penalty charge must be paid no later than the last day of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge notice was served”. So which of the rules do I follow? Do I make use of the information on the front or the back of the PCN? With this confusion in place this makes the PCN invalid.

Ø Ref to also at the back of the PCN, 4th line, paragraph 1 (highlighted in the copy sent) “the amount payable is reduced by 50%. This statement is also confusing. I have no idea what is being reduced by 50%.

Ø On a final note the PCN wrongly describes my vehicle as a xxxxx. Please see a copy of my V5 log book showing the color of my vehicle (xxxxx).

Hugs and kisses

x x x

[sailor sam]

You havn't responded to my post (#2). Have you established that the PPC are actually issuing on behalf of the LA? Were you visiting a resident?

[Dablink]

You havn't responded to my post (#2). Have you established that the PPC are actually issuing on behalf of the LA? Were you visiting a resident?

 

Hello Sailor Sam...sorry about that...I gave them a call and didt get through 9no one picked)...so couldn't confirm if the PPC waz issuing on behalf of hackney....also I was at a residents home in that estate itself

[sailor sam]

Hello Sailor Sam...sorry about that...I gave them a call and didt get through 9no one picked)...so couldn't confirm if the PPC waz issuing on behalf of hackney....also I was at a residents home in that estate itself

 

I suggest you establish that the PPC are legit b4 sending the letter also, there is no need to send a copy of your V5. The PCN will be flawd if the make or VRM is wrong and nothing else. Is there any visitor bays there... if so, were you in one?

[Dablink]

I suggest you establish that the PPC are legit b4 sending the letter also, there is no need to send a copy of your V5. The PCN will be flawd if the make or VRM is wrong and nothing else. Is there any visitor bays there... if so, were you in one?

 

Ok...would chase that during the day (PPC being legit)....In regards to the visitors bay...there are none in that estate to my knowledge..I would also scrap the car colour angle...

Edited March 23, 2011 by Dablink

[Dablink]

The sign does state "Penalty Charge Notice" as opposed to "Parking Charge Notice" so probably is legal. However if there is poor signage it could be a way out.

 

Thanks for the heads up Surfer01

[starfarer]

Did you also checked with council that they enforce in Housing Estates?? As I already posted earlier, not necessary that all councils enforce these. Also a new CEO starting up in area get confused with these permits as normal resident permit. Could be long shot but still better to enquire..just in case.

[Dablink]

Did you also checked with council that they enforce in Housing Estates?? As I already posted earlier, not necessary that all councils enforce these. Also a new CEO starting up in area get confused with these permits as normal resident permit. Could be long shot but still better to enquire..just in case.

 

Yea...just made a call to the council and I was told they do enforce in housing estates...and its 24hrs...

[Dablink]

Call made to council just now...they confirmed they do enforce in that estate and APCOA works for them...

[starfarer]

Still your letter looks good enough and well thought out. Who knows....they may not have TMO/TRO for the place. And definitely they never keep record whether CEO's uniform was checked before the start of the shift .

[Dablink]

Still your letter looks good enough and well thought out. Who knows....they may not have TMO/TRO for the place. And definitely they never keep record whether CEO's uniform was checked before the start of the shift .

Thanks