CCA reply from Hillensden/ DLC, translation, please

[bob1835]

Hi Everyone,

[goto post 73, details until them are wrong]

 

I’ve found out recently that my mother and her partner took out a 900 pound loan out with Scottish Finance in 2002. Originally paying back 30 pounds a week for 2 – 2 ½ years until her partner died. She then paid either 15, 20, 22 pounds a month ever since.

It was passed onto DLC in 2008 and they keep calling her to increase the repayment amount, even though they know, she’s on the basic state pension. I’ve been to the CAB and they gave me a CCA request to send off, and then return to them with the reply.

Unfortunately, the local CAB is now in crises and not answering their phones, or taking on any new cases. And I’ve been told it’s going take at least a month to get a return appointment. So I was wondering what to do next, basically.

 

it appears my mother has repaid over 4000 pounds so far in ‘interest’ and the balance is still higher than the original loan. It’s around 1200 pounds.

 

I sent the CCA request to DLC, and received a reply from Hillesden. Inside an envelope with a ‘return to DLC if undelivered’.!

 

Their reply to the CCA says that they are ‘awaiting a copy of your original agreement and statement of account from your original lender…..’. I visited, what was the local office, of London Scottish and found out that they went into liquidation in 2008. And that they had left all their files behind, which the new occupiers (who I spoke to) had to shred and take to the tip.

 

So basically, I think I need to know whether to wait the 21 days that Hillesden would like, which means the letter should hopefully wound arrive just before my new CAB appointment, and taken both letters there. Or should I send them a ‘failure to provide a copy…’ type letter and take all three letters along to CAB.

She's not paying any money at the moment so should I send a in dispute letter? Or have they admitted that in the '...not able to enforce..." section. Any info, suggestions, or advice would be really helpful.

 

Thanks, bob

[Revenant]

Hi bob

What a load of fleecers

Ignore the 21 days as the requirement is 12+2 days (12 days + 2 for postage) after that non-compliance puts the account into dispute and payments stop, if past the time limit already send this . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

Well it seems that the paperwork may have gone for good but that doesn't help with the money already paid and I think I'd ask for thier complaints procedure and go formal about the harassment of your Mum knowing that she's receiving her pension

Good luck

R

[dx100uk]

thats disgusting

ruddy fleecers!

 

dx

[stuck03]

I am also having trouble with dlc. This site is helping me loads. They are horrible people and to take money and pester your mum is awful. Good luck with everything x

[bob1835]

Thanks for the replies, so if the paper works gone there's nothing they can do to enforce their claim ? Is there anything i can do to close the matter, so that there's no more harassment of my mother?

I was wondering what they are trying to get at in their last paragraph - other than to confuse people.

So far i've printed off the letter suggested by revenant and plan to send it off on monday unless there's any other advice. Worried that something may back fire land my mother in a worst situation. Had hoped to blame in on CAB if this had happened but suppose it's my responsibility.

[Revenant]

Thanks for the replies, so if the paper works gone there's nothing they can do to enforce their claim ? Is there anything i can do to close the matter, so that there's no more harassment of my mother?

I was wondering what they are trying to get at in their last paragraph - other than to confuse people.

So far i've printed off the letter suggested by revenant and plan to send it off on monday unless there's any other advice. Worried that something may back fire land my mother in a worst situation. Had hoped to blame in on CAB if this had happened but suppose it's my responsibility.

 

 

Afternoon bob

 

Try not to worry as you taken the first steps to help your Mum and so far so good

 

They may try to palm you off with a re-constructed CCA I guess but if the OC has folded and the paper work destroyed I wonder what format they'd base thier attempt on plus they would also need the T & C's that were in place when things were started plus any amendments

 

You and your Mum have the best weekend you can and get that letter sent

 

Regards

 

R

[bob1835]

Hi Everyone,

 

My mother received a phone call today from DLC – they left a message and asked her to call back today. She ignored it.

I would like to put a stop to these phone calls, she’s in her seventies and very frail, doesn’t really need the stress of dealing with these people over the phone.

 

I did ask in my CCA letter, that all further contact should be made via letter as she finds the calls stressful, so either they didn’t get the message or they chose to ignore it.

 

I know about the letter in the library, but this isn’t constant harassment by phone, so can’t use that – but I think I read somewhere on here that if you request that all contact be made by letter only that they have to respect it? Anyone know anything about that?

 

Plan to send off the dispute letter first thing in the morning.

 

Cheers, bob

[Revenant]

Evening bob

Get that phone letter done as well and send it with the other one

Harassment is nothing to do with frequency but how it's perceived by the recipient

Go get them

Regards

R

[bob1835]

Hi Revenant,

 

thanks for the advice, but i was hoping to find a 'I have requested that all future contact be made in writing only, and under section "$%#4 of the 19%$ act you are required to comply, etc' type letter. I sure i've something like that but can't find it now...and leave the other letter for later,

 

thanks, bob

[twinkle1977]

Try this - worked for me with Aktiv. Send it recorded (worth it for £1.30 ish)

 

Dear Sirs

Harassment by telephone

Your Ref: ****

I am writing in relation to the telephone calls that my mother has received from your company, which we deem to be personally harassing.

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

If you continue to harass my Mother telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

Yours faithfully,

[bob1835]

Hi Twinkle,

 

thanks for the letter, I think it's the kind of thing i'm looking. But don't really know what 'harassment' is in law.

She not receiving continual calls - I just want eveything in writing and no stress from dealing with callers.

 

I plan to add another polite request 'please make all further contact via letter...' and if they again call, use your example, thanks and goodnight everyone, bob

[Revenant]

Hi Twinkle,

 

thanks for the letter, I think it's the kind of thing i'm looking. But don't really know what 'harassment' is in law.

She not receiving continual calls - I just want eveything in writing and no stress from dealing with callers.

 

I plan to add another polite request 'please make all further contact via letter...' and if they again call, use your example, thanks and goodnight everyone, bob

 

Morning bob

Below is the link to the letter twinkle adapted

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

This is a definition of "Harassment" . .

behaviour that annoys or upsets someone sexual harassment

 

 

 

(Definition of harassment noun from the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)

 

I would look at it as the first call was bad enough but the second and subsequent calls no matter about the timescale were upsetting your Mum therefore she feels harassed

Regards

R

[PGH7447]

it does not matter whether the calls are constant or not, you have made a formal request for them to stop so they have to stop.

 

Also in my opinion I would sar these creeps and demand all papers and statements for this account, lets see what they cough up.

 

by the way have they ever sent a statement of accounts? which by law they have to do on a yearly basis

[bob1835]

Hi everyone,

 

Sent account in dispute letter, what i think I was asking for above was something similiar to the door step visitor template letter. But having re-read it, maybe it was the first paragraph that i was recalling. I don't suppose there is something simliar for phone calls. Quoting OFT guide lines, common law etc, stuff. But not claiming harassment (yet) just a ' I have requested, therefore..' type thing...

 

I know it's anal but thought i should mention that the original CAA request I sent was based on a CAB template and they quoted the 1974 s 77/79 while CAG letter quotes s 77/78.

 

Any difference? So I changed template to earlier letter.

 

cheers, bob

[harrassed senior]

Hi, in a similar position myself (State Pension etc.) Since taking advice from CAG my life has turned around.

 

Now, DLC/Hillesdens. Dealing with them myself they are trying to 'prove' my alleged credit card debt, very similar to the above, what they don't know, because it has been sold on so many times, is that it is NOT a CC debt at all, I know what it 'might' refer to but certainly not going to do their job for them, so am still awaiting 'proof'. I get intermitent letters from one of the two, but they keep forgetting which hat they are wearing!!

 

I think I have a link to the OFT guidelines which you can quote, so will go and find in a moment.

 

Personally, I think your Mum has paid enough, if she is willing and you are too, get her to sign an 'Authority' for you to act on her behalf in this one matter and send it to them, they can still use her address, but your name. It may be worth £10 to send for a SAR - this would normally go to the Original Creditor, but, as they no longer exist send it to Hillesdens. This 'should' prove, the original sum + interest on the original Agreement, plus all payments received and where the rest of the interest is being added. Cease all payments and confirm the account is in dispute until such time as they provide all the paperwork under the SAR as required by law. They have 40 days to comply.

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf See in particular No.2 Page 3

[bob1835]

Hi harrassed senior,

 

Thanks for the link to the OFT stuff, I've sent the in dispute letter this morning and just received a CAB appointment for the 30 of march. So i don't expect anything more to happen before then, except maybe the odd phone call.

 

Does anyone know if I did Send a SAR request would there be any charges or interest that can be claimed back. We now know, that the worst that could possibly happen is that she'll have to have to pay 1 quid a month (although this now seems very unlikely) but it'll be really nice for my mum if she could get some of the 4000 grand in interest she's paid refunded, a couple of hundred would be a great moral victory and a nice weekend away.

[PGH7447]

if charges and interest have been aplied then yes you can claim back the charges and the interest applied to the charges

[bob1835]

Got reply from DLC for the CCA request today. There's a signature on it and it looks like my mothers. But there appears to be a lot of weird stuff going on. Hope to scan and post tomorrow once i've been through it a few times, and a few times more.

[bob1835]

Hi Everybody,

 

I hope someone can help. Finally got CCA reply from Hillesden/CBL, after 32 days.

Last thing I heard from them that they were ‘still awaiting a copy of your original agreement and statement of account from your original lender London Scottish…’ As London Scottish went into liquidation in 2008, and after I visited their old office and speaking to the couple that took over the shop front (who very kindly shredded all files, before hiring a skip to take the room full of files to the rubbish tip) I thought the chances of seeing any paperwork was around zero. But here it is….

 

If, as they said in their first letter, that they had to get this agreement from Scottish London, and Scottish London had all their paper work shredded, where did this come from?

 

The basics are, my mum believes she took a 30 per week loan for the value of 900 pounds back in 2002-3 (can’t remember year but pretty sure it was in February). But she can’t remember if she’s seen this document before. There’s no mention of 900 pounds in the agreement as far as I can see. And she wouldn’t have signed it if she had seen the total amount payable. Or the weekly repayments of course!

 

If anyone can comment on the scans and the comments below I’ll be very grateful, a few questions that I can think of are:

1) Does this satisfy the CCA request?

There are also two sets of statements enclosed, but I’ll come to those below

2) Is this agreement enforceable??

 

Although the signature appears to be correct:

There seems to be a lot of errors and inconsistencies and some very, very strange claims.

 

The agreement appears to claim that my mother, who was on the basic state pension, was given a loan where the weekly repayments were 150 pounds a week, to be paid back over 20 weeks. How can they give a loan like that??? How can she be expected to payback more than her total weekly income??? Sorry about shouting…

 

The statement from London Scottish shows that most of the early re-payments as mainly 20 pounds a week, with a few as 25 quid, for over 30 weeks: and then went down to ten and then five pounds a week for around 70 weeks: Until the account was passed on to DLC.

So, how can the original credit agreement claim that the amount agreed to be paid back as 150 quid a week when their own statements say she was paying only 20-25 pounds a week? Seems more nonsense, or is that what the agreement claims? Confused.

Except: that my mum re-members the original re-payments to be 30 pounds per week, which her and her partner repaid until he died around two years(+) later.

 

 

 

 

 

The last four lines of the London Scottish statement goes,

 

......................................Details of.transaction.......................Credit........... Balance

Dec 2007 home collected ..........cash .........................................10 ............ 2,000 (rounded up)

Aug 2008 interest rebate .......................................................................... 2,000

Aug 2008 insurance rebate ....................................................................... 2,000

Aug 2008 write off contract ..........2,000............................................... ....... 0.00

 

Anyone know what this means? O.K they sold the loan on, but did LS get 2,000 quid back from tax or something – and can they do that and still sell the debt on ???

 

Unfortunately we don’t have any receipts from this period as my mum threw a lot of stuff out a couple of years after her partner died.

 

The DLC statements starts in September 2008, and their cover note states that, they ‘have also enclosed a statement of account from our systems to show payments received since our acquisition on XX August 2008. But we have receipts from six months earlier to show she was already paying them. So these records are incomplete as well as inaccurate.

 

There’s also a ‘miscellaneous internet payment’ my mother’s never been on the internet ever, and wouldn’t know how to start a computer. It’s bizarre.

 

One of the receipts we have for this period doesn’t show up on the statement at all.

 

Also, all the dates are wrong, on both the original agreement and the LS statement of account. My mother’s not completely sure about everything after all its long time ago for everyone, more so if your elderly, but is certain she took the loan out in Feb of either of either 2002 or 2003, because her partner was diagnosed with stomach cancer in 2004, he was given 1-2 years to live, (and died 18 months later) so they just would not have taken this out went it’s claimed.

 

Any point in uploading the statements from London Scottish and DLC? If so just say.

 

So any info, comments, suggestions on what you think of this reply would be very welcomed,

 

all the best

bob

[FORMISTER]

Hi, firstly looking at the first page I can see that the 150 (K) is the amount of installments and the payments are £20 per week, 150x20=£3000

 

Also did she have a previous loan which she re-financed with a new cash advance (E)

 

Also looking at (D), why if she was on state pension did she have insurance with it? She can't lose her job or have time off receiving her pension what is the point of it? And a box for insurance doesn't seem to be ticked, so why has it been added?

 

Also the loan was signed in july 2005 as you mentioned this couldn't of been can you obtain statements from the bank account that period when the loan was paid out?

Edited March 26, 2011 by FORMISTER

[bob1835]

Thanks for the comments Formister,

 

Yep my eye sight just isn't what it was, that accounts for the 150x20 amounts being confused.

I'll ask about the poss. of a previous loan, but she did say they recieved 900 quid cash in hand.

Interesting point about insurance, I can only suppose that they thought they had to take it with the loan.

Don't know which of the six PPI box's should have been ticked, but yep they're all as clean as freshly fallen snow.

 

As for details form the bank account of that period, my mother paid a home collector and has thrown the book away. But if you meant London Scottish I could alway send for a SAR to both DLC and London Scottish, anyone think that's worthwhile???

 

One thing that I did notice, was the dating of the form. Should my mother had dated when she signed??? It's obviously been dated twice by the company.

[FORMISTER]

Do you think this is a reconstituted agreement and possibly the signaure is a copy?

 

Also has interest been added to the account since the DCA has purchased the account?

 

I am wondering about the possibility of the agreement not being enforceable due to fact that the figures include PPI which you have not applied for as no evidence of a box being ticked can be seen. This could make the agreement inproperly executed.

They could then claim that the agreement is a reconstituted copy (as they are entitled to do) and that they have forgotton to tick the box, but if that was the case they would of commited fraud by faking the signature. just thinking aloud here.

[bob1835]

Thanks Formister,

 

I don't really know if this is a reconstituted agreement, but i'm really surprised that a company that went into liquidation in 2008, and had all their records shredded by the new tenants of the premises, could find a hard copy of the original agreement. Which i think you need if they were serious in taking my mum to court.

 

I'm really trying to find some reason that makes this 'copy' unenforceable.

 

So, with a signature - they must be claiming that this is a copy of the original and not a reconstituted agreement, right?

 

I'll be seeing my mum tomorrow and go through the time line and other details with her again.

 

But if it is a reconstituted then that may be why both dates were done by the same person. My mother never dated this, so does anyone know if that make it unenforceable?

 

As for the CCA reply itself, does that include the agreement and the sets of statements. I'm wondering if the statements are in error (six months misssing + other errors in the DLC alone) should i reply and ask them to try again? Or would it be worth sending a SAR request to both companies?

 

Anythoughts, comments or suggestions would be very helpful, as i'm sure you've realized i'm not very good at this stuff.

 

Although two months ago my mum was getting calls to increase her 22 quid monthly payments, as they said she wasn't paying enough from her pension. So thats not going to happen, one modest success so far, but it'll be really nice to put a stop to this rather than going down the a quid a month forever route,

 

alll the best,

bob

 

p.s. no mention of interest being added,i'm going to add up payments and do the sums again this afternoon, but do i know that that there's a lot of errors in the DLC statement.I'm assuming that they have to declare any interest added , and not just give an incomplete statement.

[FORMISTER]

Well if they are claiming that it's the origional CCA then it's not a problem, if they are claiming it's a reconstituted agreement then it would be fraud for entering her signature. They can use a recon agreement to take you to court and it becomes a bit of a judge lottery. But they won't win an increase if she is on a state pension, they know this.

 

I think maybe a letter to ask if this is a recon or the origional executed agreement would be helpful.

 

If it is the origional agreement and the figures include PPI on credit but there is an absence of any PPI ticked on the agreement then I believe the agreement hasn't been executed properly and is unenforcable, but I would like to check with other Caggers on this.

 

If the account was terminated and then sold on, there should be no interest added (unless it states that there can be in the agreement, which i very much doubt there will be).

 

There are quite a few other things to look at by the sound of it , but we should deal with these first.

[FORMISTER]

I think maybe the date on the signtures could be said to have been written by the same person if the agreement was signed in her home, was it or was it sent through the post?