SD help needed URGENTLY - Facing Bankrupcy proceedings

[testing-times]

Hi I need urgent assistance if possible.

Town&Country aka Gamma Finance took over a loan debt that I could no longer afford to repay. I was in verbal contact with them October 2010 when I agreed a repayment plan £40 a month. I paid in November but due to illness missed Decembers payment. I contacted them in the new year Jan / Feb via e-mail to inform them that I would need to reduce this to £20 because of financial changes in my employment reducing my wage by £300 a month.

 

I rang them on the 3rd March 2011 to see if they had recieved payment and the person I spoke with confirmed that they had recieved my e-mail and £20 would be okay and reviewed in 3 months time. I made a payment that day.

 

On the same day they produced statutory demand paperwork for the £5,507 I owe them and it was delivered to me on the 11th March 2011. I contacted Town&Country on the 14th March 2011 and said I had received a letter demanding the full amount. They tried to get me to say what I had recieved i.e. SD but I just said a letter. When I said I was in a payment plan for at least 3 months the reply was - ' Weve looked into this and there is equity in your property and we want to secure against it or they will go ahead and make me bankrupt'. I asked how much will I need to pay to stop proceedings and they said £100 a month. I said I couldn't afford that and offered £70 which is the most I could pay. (I am paying off mortgage arrears and arrears on two secure loans on the property also). The representative said he would go and speak to his managers and get back to me later.

 

The next day I had a phone call back and they want me to pay £70 a month, plus the £150 for the SD and put a charge on the property with £300 solicitors costs otherwise they will go ahead and continue with bankrupcy. 'it has to be on our terms'!.

 

My Mrs is furious because she sees it as bully tactics to scare me. I am worried I will lose the house obviously so I need some good advice quickly. Unfortunately everything has been done verbally.

 

If I have no other option but to give in and have the charge put on the property does this involve court or just solicitor paperwork and can they just sell the house from under me by underhand tactics ?

 

Please can someone help ?

[harrassed senior]

What date was the SD received - you have 18 days in which to deal with this.

 

My first piece of advice would be to stay off the 'phone, you can see above just how muddled everything gets. Insist on everything in writing in future.

 

There is NO COST for the issue of an SD that I am aware of, although it is a legal document, it is actually just downloaded from the internet and served, how did you receive yours, there is a special way to do this, it cannot come by ordinary, unsigned for post.

 

To get a Charging Order they first need to get a County Court Judgement.

 

When did you take out the Loan, have you applied for a copy of your Agreement to make sure it is enforceable?

 

Personally, I would continue to make payments that YOU can afford, but with the answers to the above questions, more help will be available.

[42man]

I presume it is an unsecured loan.....firstly you MUST set aside the demand, making a repayment plan is not potentially enough to set aside. However I imagine that there are a significant amount of charges (was there any PPI too ?)

 

I would send off for a copy of your agreement by way of a CCA request....also can you post up the particulars of the claim on the demand too ? (but don't be specific with dates.....)

 

How old is the loan ?

 

As has been said above you have 18 days in which to set aside from the date you received the demand....

[42man]

I also have to ask did you get this loan through a broker ?

[jimbo45]

Hi there

I'm not an expert at dealing with an SD - but it would appear that a DCA won't go the whole hog of making you Bankrupt as it would cost too much money. They are just trying to scare you into re-submission.

 

Once you've dealt with the SD -- as I said I can't help you with that one although others will surely guide you through THAT process then the Charging Order issue can be handled.

 

Before this happens they need to go to court at least 3 Times.

 

1) they need to get a CCJ.

2) They have to go back to court if you DON'T comply with the CCJ. They will get an Interim CO and they can't do it if the property is NOT soley registered in your own name or other factors such as elderly / disabled people living at the property or young kids.

3) They have to back to court again to get a final CO.

 

In any case on around 5,000 GBP of originally UNSECURED DEBT I wouldn't worry as INTEREST STOPS STONE DEAD from the date of the CO.

It's almost unheard of for a forced sale on the property for a debt of that size anyway.

 

I'd just sit it out -- let them get the CO and then after another 6 months or so offer them a lowish 10% Full and Final settlement.

 

You can easily say -- you are not moving forthe next 20 years or so (even if you want to move next week --but don't tell them that) and meanwhile the debt is rapidly losing value due to inflation etc.

 

Contary to popular belief a CO doesn't stop you from selling a house -- all that happens is that the CO is paid to the creditor (Last in the queue after outstanding Mortgage / other proper secured loans) from the proceeds of sale.

 

If there isn't enough then it's "Tough Ladies -- you know what !!".

 

Also after you move thats the END OF IT -- you can't be hassled for that debt as its with the property and not you.

 

Courts really don't like the AGGRESSIVE use of CO's on unsecured debt like credit cards etc. and these days it really isn't any point for a creditor going for this unless just to frighten you.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[42man]

"but it would appear that a DCA won't go the whole hog of making you Bankrupt as it would cost too much money. They are just trying to scare you into re-submission"

 

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you jimbo.....just type in Lowell, Hamptons or Moorhead James / Connaught and you will see that these companies will go straight to SD/BP stage without any kind of previous court action....some solicitors will work on a conditional fee agreement for clients (DCA's)

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Does not government guidance state CO,s should not be

made for less than £25,000?

[42man]

"I'd just sit it out -- let them get the CO and then after another 6 months or so offer them a lowish 10% Full and final settlement." ----Why would they want to take a settlement when they have a charge on the house for potentially the full amount and 8% interest ???? And if you go to court there are costs too.....which are likely to go against you......

[42man]

You set the stat demand aside and do NOT agree to a charge or pay £150 to fill out a document that takes no more than 10 minutes to do.......if you want help please let me know...

[42man]

Yes Brigadier...BUT they are asking him to take a charge VOLUNTARILY.....and if it gets down the line and he wants to set aside the charging order for any reason due to a dispute of ANY kind then estoppel could become and issue and then they would have him over a barrel....

[jimbo45]

Does not government guidance state CO,s should not be

made for less than £25,000?

 

Hi there

 

two points

If it DID go to court for Bankruptcy then it's unlikely this would be granted for a relatively trivial amount of 5,000 GBP ( I say relative because to the individual debtor who is in hard times 5,000 GBP can seem as hard to get as Abromovitch's Billions) .

 

Bankruptcy will only occur if the debtor is overwhelmingly in debt with no possible means of ever digging him / herseklf out of the hole and a brand new start is the only option.

 

The Court is much more likely to suggest some type of possible repayment fees maybe as low as 10 GBP a month. Bankruptcy isn't granted as an automatic right.

 

As far as the CO process is concerned the proposal to make these only valid for debts of 25,000 GBP or more whilst Coalition policy isn't actually law yet.

 

Please also note INTEREST CANNOT BE CHARGED ON A CO that was granted for ANY DEBT that falls under the various CCA acts -- 99% of debt on this Forum is in this category.

 

Note that for OTHER debt the amount is 5,000 GBP so if the debt falls OUTSIDE the CCA pay off the 150 GB or so to bring it within the 5,000 GBP limit.

 

Statuatory 8% Interest is only allowed on a CCJ UP TO the date of the CO.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[Basil Fawlty]

First step must be to ask them to produce a CCA surely? If they cant do this within 12+2 days, put the account in dispute. This along with possible charges on the account plus the SD being sent by ordinary post would be enough to set aside?

 

BF

[Basil Fawlty]

Hi there

 

two points

If it DID go to court for Bankruptcy then it's unlikely this would be granted for a relatively trivial amount of 5,000 GBP ( I say relative because to the individual debtor who is in hard times 5,000 GBP can seem as hard to get as Abromovitch's Billions) .

 

Bankruptcy will only occur if the debtor is overwhelmingly in debt with no possible means of ever digging him / herseklf out of the hole and a brand new start is the only option.

 

The Court is much more likely to suggest some type of possible repayment fees maybe as low as 10 GBP a month. Bankruptcy isn't granted as an automatic right.

 

As far as the CO process is concerned the proposal to make these only valid for debts of 25,000 GBP or more whilst Coalition policy isn't actually law yet.

 

Cheers

jimbo

 

If bankruptcy occurs then they will be happy to take the £5000 from the assets (the house).

 

BF

[testing-times]

You set the stat demand aside and do NOT agree to a charge or pay £150 to fill out a document that takes no more than 10 minutes to do.......if you want help please let me know...

 

Thanks. I need advice on setting the SD aside.

What if I fail to get it set aside - will they cancel the offer and just make me bankrupt ?

If I complete the paperwork to set aside and submit inside the next two weeks, how long will the court take to hear my appeal for it to be set aside. (Reason is I am in the North East training people on FLT's for work for a week and it would just be my luck to get it that week).

 

I spoke to a solicitor over the phone and he said take the charge and pay the £70 a month. I'm going to CAB tomorrow - will they be able to offer any help ?

 

Whats a CCA ? The original debt was for a loan so they probably do have some original signed paperwork

Edited March 16, 2011 by testing-times

[harrassed senior]

You will need to visit the Court with you 'set aside' paperwork, so I am sure you could also tell them the dates you will NOT be available.

[42man]

I can assist with a defence but you will need to answer the questions above.....a court date for an SD is usally 1-2 months after you have applied to set aside....

[harrassed senior]

If they have not sent you the relevant paperwork, for set aside here is a link to where you can download them, and then you will be ready for the advice on how to do so:

 

Forms for Setting Aside Statutory Demands:

 

 

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/forms/6-5.pdf

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/forms/6-4.pdf

[jimbo45]

If bankruptcy occurs then they will be happy to take the £5000 from the assets (the house).

 

BF

 

Hi there

 

of course IF Bankruptcy occurs -- but even here the receiver has to go through the debtors assets and its a LONG way off before a house is sold --for example there might be a Vehicle which could be sold or other assets.

 

Selling a House and pushing someone out on to the Street is the LAST thing most Courts want to do if there is any other alternative -- and as I said for a relatively small sum like 5,000 GBP some sort of re-payment plan can usually be arranged.

 

Bankruptcy is actually quite hard to get -- especially for these sorts of amounts which would in any case be handled by a Small Claims court.

 

If the debtor REALLY CAN'T pay anything -- then Bankruptcy is the only option but I'd imagine most people owning a property could probably find around 2,000 GBP of sellable assets some where and the UK is going to look rediculously stupid if it's turning people out on to the Street for around 3,000 GBP.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[42man]

Jimbo I suggest you read these threads - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?294372-Morhead-deliver-bankruptcy-order-by-hand&highlight=moorhead

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?298427-fao-42man-bankruptcy-annulment&highlight=lowells

[sillygirl1]

CAB can't do anything other than advise you to take the charge, with two other secured loans on the property it is unlikely there will be ANY equity in it after they have all had their piece of the XXX (insert whichever expletive or denegrating phrase you prefer).

 

Report them to the OFT for using SDs in this manner, you had agreed a repayment plan with them and they are the ones breaching it, not you.

[42man]

And this one - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291467-Bankruptcy-BY-COURT-for-£4000.-help&highlight=bankruptcy ....there are quite a number on here, a few of whom didn't even know they had been made bankrupt...ME included....

[42man]

Sillygirl is quite right

 

This is a quote from the previous Undersecretary Of State For Trade And Consumer Affairs

 

"debt collectors who issue stat demands without giving debtors reasonable opportunities to agree a repayment schedule are likely to be in breach of the OFT's debt collection guidance. This guidance outlines the type of business practice that the OFT consider unfair and therefore incompatible with fitness to hold a consumer credit licence.

 

In addition to this, the government has recently strengthened the OFT regime to give them greater powers to investigate and take action against unscrupulous or incompetent firms. The OFT will be targetting its monitoring and scrutiny activities on debt collectors.

 

If you wish to comment on a company's non-compliance with the OFT's guidance, you can do so by going to the OFT website and downloading a complaints form, which has been established so that debtors and their representatives can provide them with the information they need in order to investigate complaints quickly and effectively. The form can be found at: The Office of Fair Trading: Debt collection practices "

 

However this will not be enough to set aside the demand.....

[testing-times]

Loan was through Everyday loans.

No PPI as far as I am aware as I was earning good money at the time but will need to check this.

I will ask for copy of CCA.

Loan is 3-4 years old.

 

Thank you for all comments so far and it is making me a bit more positive.

Edited March 16, 2011 by testing-times

[42man]

OK so Everyday loans (as a broker) sold you a loan with Gamma Finance....I presume there was a brokers fee you paid too ? in which case there was likely to be a secret/undisclosed commission....do you have any of the previous paperwork ? Have they sent you a default notice ?

[jimbo45]

Jimbo I suggest you read these threads - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?294372-Morhead-deliver-bankruptcy-order-by-hand&highlight=moorhead

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?298427-fao-42man-bankruptcy-annulment&highlight=lowells

 

Hi there

I'm not saying that they won't ATTEMPT to do it -- but the chances of it being granted are not high fo smallish (by Bankruptcy terms) amounts.

 

In the first thread the amount of debt wasn't specified -- but if it were say 35,000 GBP then that's a different ball game to 5,000 GBP or so which comes under SMALL CLAIMS.

 

In both the threads the DCA was acting improperly in any case so the Bankruptcy petition would have had no chance of succeeding.

 

Some people are too frightened by the whole Court process.

 

In my experience you are much more likely to get a better deal from a Court than with any DCA or real scumbags like Lowells etc.

 

The trick of course is that you have to present your case CLEARLY -- and with the modern educational system being what it is I suspect that this discriminates SEVERELY against some of the younger generation.

 

Never give income statement or any other information to a DCA. Save this for a Court hearing and even in Final Bnkruptcy stages you can make an arrangement WITH tTHE COURT -- not with the DCA. If the DCA don't like it -- Tough.

 

Cheers

jimbo