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    • hi all. bit of advice please. I had a Three contract up until November last year. At £11pcm for 24mths. Paid every month on time via their online portal. When I ported over, I received a letter from Three thanking me for being a customer blah blah blah.. It also said IF I owed anything a final bill will be sent. No final bill ever received - I get a phone call around the first week in December form an Indian sounding man who was extremly difficult to understand. Said he was calling from Three, and wanted me to confirm my details - something of which I didnt as something didnt sit right. He said I could log into my account and review my bill as I owed money and then hung up. After the call I thought I'd best log into my account just in case.  Couldnt log in. Account access denied. Logged on to chat - they said as I ported over and I was no longer a customer my access was suspended. Couple of weeks later I had another call from a local area number and answered again it was some Indian guy telling me I owed money, wanting me to confirm details. I refused and he said details will be sent out to me to my email on account and my home address as it was important. Once again nothing.. 15th Dec I received an email from PastDue in my name RE Three. Email stated they were contacting me about Three an I should receive a letter soon regards to this matter. Says about visiting their website.  22nd Jan another email form Pastdue. Stating they have yet to receive a response to the letter, and they had already sent me an email about this. We will continue to contact you until this matter is resolved. Again asks me to login. 23rd Jan letter received dated 13th Jan. Titled "We are here to help keep your Three Services"  Claiming I owed "Airetime Balance £201.43" and contract period was 26/11/2019 to 25/11/2020 States "We have been appointed by Three to recover the amount of £201.43. If you pay this amount in full Three may be able to waive the cancellation fee and reconnect their service for you" - what cancellation fee / re connection??? I ended the contract giving the 30days notice and paying the last bill.. Then the normal crap about its important to pay. If I'm experiencing difficulties etc. Now both December and  January Credit reports from ClearScore, Credit Karma, Credit Expert, Totally Money and Equifax all show Three as Closed and balance as Zero. (Date Satisfied /closed 17th Nov, bal 0, last updated 30th Nov) I've had nothing from Three. As far as I'm concerned I owe nothing as no final bill and no access to the portal. Should I email PastDue and do a prove it & attach proof of Credit Reports being £0 or do I do something else?  
    • Hi she did say she was cancelling and returned the equipment. It looks like they put her on a rolling contract for 24 months when she phoned before trying to reduce her payments as they kept going up. I know Sky haven't done that to me. She didn't see that email as she's had lots of stressful situations. No.letter in post or when she originally phoned about reducing her bill well over £100 they didn't tell her about this contract. Like you say there should be recordings. BT mobile contract is separate to broadband and the cancellation fee is for the broadband. They have blocked her mobile so she can't use it and that is a contract. She is phoning CAB in the morning and checking through her paperwork. I'm quite happy with Sky as they tell you upfront what is happening and have never rolled over my contract. Thanks for taking time to reply it is much appreciated. 
    • I've sent an email to a press contact And one to a journalist at the BBC!
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies

Mrs.SS v Cap One - reclaim of Credit Card Charges


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I had a CCJ against Nat West as part of a separate charges reclaim and they were VERY keen to get it removed

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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seeing as Cap One have made no contact, and it is seemingly impossible to get email/telephone contact details of their legal department.

 

I got this from their defense paperwork, which was sent to me, try these details and see if it is of any help.

 

Zsuzsi Padgett

Legal Specialist (Non Solicitor)

Capital One (Europe) Plc

 

Zsuzsi.Padgett@capitalone.com | tel: 0115 843 8419 | fax: 0115 843 6483

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mp

 

Many thanks for that :)

 

That ladies name appears on my defence paperwork as well but there are no contact details. Will send an email to try and see whats happening - if nothing else they owe me a response to my court bundle & draft directions.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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SS, I am glad I could help in some way :) it is the least I can do. If those don't work then try these I found while rummaging through old capital one threads (wendy.starr@capitalone.com) http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?88645-Wendy-Star...capital-One-Legal-Dept-Fone-Number

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The banks have hundreds, if not thousands, of CCJ's against them. However, they try to avoid them being registered and certainly try to get them removed. If you get a CCJ against a bank, you'll almost certainly be paid by them unless they appeal.

 

To SS - I hope the contact details prove useful in giving the bank a chance to settle before court.

 

Otherwise, good luck next week.

 

:-)

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so many Banks etc have files & files of CCJs against them

Sometimes, this is purely due to banks' huge size and inefficiency! They may, believe it or not, actually not know that some of these CCJs exist, or the claimant who got the CCJ has simply left it like that without pressing for enforcement, which is the whole point of getting a CCJ.

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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For all of you thinking that Cap One will just 'cave in' please remember what I said previously about it not being guaranteed...

 

We have received a court bundle today from them, so they are certainly intent on taking this to the wire. Please please get your preparations organised.

 

I will post further when Ive dissected the witness statement....to be honest, the rest just looks like bumph - T&Cs, application forms etc. However, we received it 3 days after it was due, and court date is wednesday.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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Thanks SS for keeping us up to date, I am only in need of a WS (some help would be appreciated) and I am after a good summary for two test cases and then these should complete my bundle and ready for print. If you could trow any info my way I would be more than grateful.

 

Also did you email that person from capital one, any feed back from them, just curious. Probably doesn't matter now as you have received their bundle.

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Yes I did email that person (twice in fact) but received no response.

 

Funnily enough, its the same person whose witness statement I will be reading carefully tomorrow.

 

If you dont mind, I dont want to share my WS around until after my court hearing, as to be honest, if it proves to be a flop, I wouldnt want others to suffer because of me.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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Ok I see, well post their WS up if anything.

 

I understand and appreciate that not a problem, I did remember you did say that about the WS, I can wait, I doubt it will be a flop though :). I will wait.

 

Do you have summaries for both Sempra vs IRC and Kleinwort Benson Ltd v Lincoln City Council? I have been searching the net for a very good summary and I am still at the moment.If you don't mind PMing those I would be grateful :).

 

I am wishing you the best for Wednesday! I will be here eagerly waiting for te good news and for tips as to how I should go about mine also :). All the best again for Wednesday.

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mp

 

Yes and no....

 

I received a full refund of charges plus some decent interest from Aqua, however I didnt chance my arm there as members of the Halifax group are getting a name for defending vigorously and retaining some serious legal muscle.

 

I took Natwest to court and won with compound interest, but perhaps mainly coz their legal representatives were erm....crap. They forgot to defend, so I got judgement by default. From then on it was a question of haggling / getting the money out of them. Theres a thread on the Natwest forums somewhere. Even with a judgement it was quite stressful as they try to convince you they will easily get it set aside.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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Still Surviving , good luck for tomorrow - we have a hearing with them in Sept - after they had been lapssidasical about the whole court process, they had extension after extension - never known anything quite like it!

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We have received a court bundle today from them, so they are certainly intent on taking this to the wire. Please please get your preparations organised.

Hmmnn, this is interesting. Why would they go through the trouble and expense at this level for such low amounts?

 

The legal brains on these threads should look further into this.

 

'Praying' you all the best SS. :-)

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Well Ive just spent the morning going over the WS submitted by Cap One. To me it is absolutely full of holes and inaccuracies but it remains to be seen whether the judge will agree.

 

The absolute crux of the matter is they say 'Default Sums have already been held as not being penalties in Common Law' and they quote the OFT case that the banks won in the supreme court. Now we all know that case related to specifically Bank Current Accounts NOT credit cards. Lets hope the judge is clued up on this and not easily led by a smooth barrister.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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Share on other sites

Hi SS

 

Just popped in to say Good Luck for tomorrow

 

Regards

 

ims

If I have helped you please leave me a message by clicking my star

 

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The absolute crux of the matter is they say 'Default Sums have already been held as not being penalties in Common Law' and they quote the OFT case that the banks won in the supreme court. Now we all know that case related to specifically Bank Current Accounts NOT credit cards. Lets hope the judge is clued up on this and not easily led by a smooth barrister.

SS

Have you been able to devise a well worded rebuttal of this particular assertion? Is/are there any on CAG? If this is what they're pinning their hopes on, it's worth putting heads together to come up with a strong argument against it.:evil: It's one thing us lot knowing the SC doesn't apply to non-current accounts but smooth talking barristers have demonstrated jedi-like powers over some judges before. I've also read somewhere else on CAG not too long ago that the SC ruling has/is being used by mortgage lenders to back mortgage arrears charges as well. :-x

 

Are the CAG mods aware of this 'new tactic' though? That lenders are now using this argument to defend credit card charges reclaim actions? If so, a strong direct rebuttal is needed, and possibly an update to all the relevant POC templates!:shock:

imo

The matrix is intrinsically flawed. Within it is the program for it's own destruction. If you are reading this, you are in the matrix and it's days are numbered...so watch out! :eek:

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Well guys.....I lost :(

 

Everyone here MUST now expect Cap One to defend these cases thoroughly if you are going for older charges.

 

They retained the services of a London EC4 barrister, who was extremely efficient and knew Consumer Credit Law backwards.

 

In case you think I may have slipped up, the judge actually said I had prepared one of the best court bundles he had seen this year, and my

arguing of the points I wanted to make was done most admirably.

 

However:

 

Do not expect Cap One to pay anything over six years old. They are convinced they can now overturn the provisions of the Limitations Act 1980 32.1c with legal argument and this judge certainly agreed. If you choose to use the Kleinwort Benson case now....you will get a very detailed rebuttal.

 

I very very nearly got the judge to go my way....but then he seemed to just fold and find for Cap One.

 

They are also using the OFT v Abbey National test case as concrete proof that default sums cannot be assessed as penalty. Yes yes yes I know the case didn not apply to credit cards (must have said that in court three times) but they now assert that s6.2 of the UTCCR 1999 enables the two to be linked.

 

Well....I lost but Im not gutted. The whole experience was not unpleasant (though a little dull, as the judge talked so slowly for the transcriber)

 

if your case contains charges before and after six years old, expect them to pay back the newer charges when they file their defence, then tackle you head on for the older stuff.

 

 

Sorry guys....but I really didnt let you down. I could not have argued any better for a litigant in person.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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Share on other sites

Hi SS

 

Just to say that I'm really sorry about the outcome for you today...its clear that you have put a lot of work into this.

 

I'm curious to know how they got around S32 though.....do you recall any detail or the arguments put forward?

 

Best regards

 

ims

If I have helped you please leave me a message by clicking my star

 

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI

Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial

Read Here

5. Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

6. Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

Read Here

 

How To Upload Documents To Cag

Instructions

 

I DON'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM BUT IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

 

 

 

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are perhaps inappropriate for posting on the main forum. Site rules explain this in more detail.

 

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Yes I have their argument here....

 

Basically they are alleging Kleinwort Benson clearly relates to mistake in law which was rectified by a subsequent change in law. If you allege that payment of the charges was a mistake in law, they will counter by saying the OFT review in April 2006 was not a change in law, but simply a 3rd parties interpretation of the law. The judge very strongly agreed with this.

 

Having seen their argument ahead of time, i tried strongly to argue that payment of charges was a mistake of fact, not law - as this is discussed in Kleinwort as well. The judge was giving serious consideration to this for quite some time, and I thought he was going to agree, but ultimately he decided the whole of Kleinwort related to a mistake in law, and thus could not be used to support my argument for postponement of the limitation period

 

As you can see....it is now no longer possible to just cite a crucial case like this, you must assume that Cap One will be looking to pick it pieces, and will use the personnel they need to do so.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

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Share on other sites

By the way, Im now quite chilled out after all this is out of the way. Slick132 will confirm just how much effort was put into this, and the pressure I felt under. However, I honestly beleive I did the very best I could have done as a LIP, but when these guys bring out the heavy professionals, you are really up against it from the start.

 

I must also point out that if anyone is intending to push their case into court, you simply MUST put in 100% effort. Do not forget that even in the small claims court, if the judge thinks the case was without merit, or very poorly prepared and a waste of court time, you can still get some costs awarded against you....

 

We simply must bury this idea now that Cap One will just cave in.

Card 1 - Charges reclaim £464 + Interest...ongoing

Card 2 - Charges reclaim £520 + Interest...ongoing

Card 3 - Charges reclaim £396 + £1179 Imterest **WON**

Card 4 - Charges reclaim £296 + £147 Interest **WON**

------------------------------------------------------------

4 x CCA requests

1 received.....Blank Application Form

1 received.....Terms & Conditions

1 received.....Sent agreement relating to a previous card :confused:

1 response....Have lost the agreement :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm grateful to you SS.

 

There have been a couple of losses reported in the forums lately and it appears that the banks are fighting back with even more vigour at present.

 

As you say, claimants need to be aware of these counter arguments and can no longer take the view that they will cave in before the hearing.

 

As I say, I am sorry to hear of the outcome and hopefully the points you make will help others in the future.

 

My best wishes to you and Mrs SS

 

ims

If I have helped you please leave me a message by clicking my star

 

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI

Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

4. The CAG Interest Tutorial

Read Here

5. Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

6. Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

7. Thinking of a Full & Final Settlement?

Read Here

 

How To Upload Documents To Cag

Instructions

 

I DON'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM BUT IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

 

 

 

Private message facilities are offered for users to communicate issues that are perhaps inappropriate for posting on the main forum. Site rules explain this in more detail.

 

If you receive a private message which you consider abusive, derogatory or otherwise inappropriate, whether it be about yourself or other members, please report it using the "report" icon

 

If you are approached (or have been approached) by private message with an offer of help "Off Forum" or with a view to asking you to visit another website, please inform the site team via the report icon, especially if this results in a request for a fee. Remember, this is for your own protection

my views are my own and are given in good faith to try and help people. Please seek professional advice on your case if necessary

 

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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I am sorry for the outcome of your case SS, I know you are not gutted but I am!

 

My thought of the following you mentioned.....,

 

s6.2

6.—(1) Without prejudice to regulation 12, the unfairness of a contractual term shall be assessed, taking into account the nature of the goods or services for which the contract was concluded and by referring, at the time of conclusion of the contract, to all the circumstances attending the conclusion of the contract and to all the other terms of the contract or of another contract on which it is dependent.

 

(2) In so far as it is in plain intelligible language, the assessment of fairness of a term shall not relate–

 

(a)to the definition of the main subject matter of the contract, or

(b)to the adequacy of the price or remuneration, as against the goods or services supplied in exchange.

 

^^^^ This is what we now need to gather some legal arguments against, as from what I understand they have used the above to weave themselves into the same category as the Banks (current account ruling). Without thorough arguments and further laws for the above then clearly the above surely would rule out us using Kleinwort vs Lincoln City Council to claim charges beyond the 6yrs limitation act and also that they are paid in mistake.

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