HFC Marbles Loan Inhibition Order Help

breakanegg · June 16, 2009

Hi there,

I took out an HFC loan in December 2004, it was for around £9K. I

have made payments every month and in December last year the DDs stopped from my account.

I have received a letter which has me panicked and I don't know what to do.

It is saying that I am in arrears,

the debt has been cancelled

and I have to pay the whole lot off, over £6K

and I am being charged £15 every month since January

and I didn't even know it.

I assumed that was it paid off when DD's stopped.

I didn't hear anything from them till recently.

The letter I received says as follows:

This is a SUBSEQUENT ARREARS NOTICE given in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because you are behind with your payments.

This is relating to a Credit Agreement dated 20th December 2004 under Account Number xxxxxxxx made between you and HFC Bank.

lf you already have an arrangement with us to pay you need take no further action.

lf you have not already contacted us since the termination of this agreement,

please do this as soon as possible to avoid further action.

It then has a table listing balance of £6495 on 21st January 09, administration fee of £15, £37 interest, and then the same every month since with a current balance of £6640.

I'm really confused. I honestly didn't know there was still a balance outstanding!

I also don't get statements or anything on this account, it was just a DD that came out of my account every month for about £190.

What should i do?

Should I ask to reinstate the DD?

It seems an AWFUL LOT to still have outstanding after 4 years of paying £190 on a £9K loan.

Especially since I calculated that I've paid over £9K already!

That being 48 months at approx £190 a month!

Can I write and ask for anything? Is there any way I can challenge this?

To make matters worse I was made redundant a few weeks ago.

Although I'm trying really hard to get another job this hasn't came at the best of times

Any help would be much appreciated.

what_todo · June 16, 2009

how did the dd stop?

have you got any paper work from when you took the loan out?

if so it should a date saying when the loan is fully paid.

johnnymitch · June 16, 2009

This sounds suspiciously like a 'Managed Loan' to me breakanegg - which is all about paying interest but nothing off the capital ....

If you haven't got a copy of the agreement as whattodo is asking - then you should send them a CCA request for copies of it - to see when it was due to be terminated - Letter N on this link is what you want .......

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162353

Incidentally , can you find out who stopped the DDs ? It's usually a helluva job to get them to stop them .....even when it's justified ......

breakanegg · July 20, 2009

Hi guys,

Thanks for advice.

I went ahead and sent the CCA request and Subject Access, with a covering letter explaining I cannot find the original agreement and genuinelly though the loan was paid.

I checked with the bank and the time the DDs stopped was around times I switched banks, they're meant to automatically take over all your DDs.

This one slipped through and I never noticed and as I didn't receive any statements or anything until letter I didn't know there was problem.

I know ignorance isn't an excuse but I can't change that now but hopefully I can sort this mess out if I can understand what to do next, that's hopefully where you guys come in :-)

I got back a letter, the first sentence of which says

"I am unable to uphold your complaint".

"I note from my records that an agreement was made between yourself and HFC Bank Ltd trading as Marbles Loans on 20 December 2004.

The agreement was for a loan amount of xxx over 84 months at 6.9%APR. "

I thought the loan was for less time than this, however I am unable to find the original agreement, because it was so long ago.

"HFC Bank has been unable to provide a photocopy of your original agreement.

However, please note that in accordance with Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 we provide a copy of the executed agreement that does not include information which it is permitted to exclude such as the signatures and signature box.

Upon the original agreement becoming available, HFC Bank will forward this to you as soon as received."

I have no idea what this paragraph means.

What I received is a copy of some form of standard agreement,

definitely not the one I signed nor did it contain any specifics (amount, duration, interest) of my loan.

"As no payments were made to the account from October 2008 to May 2009 the account was registered as bad debt on 29 May 2009

this means no further interest charges will be applied to your account.

The account is currently held with our Collections Department,

who are contactable on 0870 010 2434 to make alrangements to pay the remaining balance.

It is a requirement of HFC Bank to ensure that an accurate reflection of how the account is run is registered with the credit reference agencies.

Should you remain dissatisfied, the bank is obliged to advise you of your right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, as this letter constitutes our final response."

I do not understand the underlined statement.

According to the SAR information I am still incurring a late payment fee every month and they are still applying interest every month.

The final paragraph looks like a final letter?

Does that mean I now need to take my complaint to the FOS?

Please excuse my ignorance.

I'm not sure what to do here.

If I have genuinelly screwed up

I had hoped to reinstate monthly payments but they wont allow me to do that.

Although being honest the full monthly payment would be a problem right now as I was made redundant a couple of months ago and am still desperately looking for work.

They have said they believe their charges are fair and so won't refund them.

Any advice on what my next step should be? I've had a look through the forums and the examples doesn't really seem to apply here.

johnnymitch · July 20, 2009

Has the copy which they sent you got your details on it breakanegg, i.e.name, address etc - or is it just a copy of what they think you would have signed. A blank document is not acceptable as a true copy of the agreement and they are well aware of that .

They may say this is their final response, but it can't be

- they put this on lots of templates to try to stop you from disputing further.....

The fact remains - if they, or their 'debt collection department' cannot produce evidence of the agreement , they cannot enforce it until they do ....

So a letter something like :

CCA Call-up letter

Reference ....... (your letter of xx xxx xx)

I am disappointed that you have failed to respond fully to my request for a copy of my Loan agreement to which I am entitled under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79). A copy of this letter is attached for your convenience.

I have previously enclosed a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

I understand a true copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days. What you have sent is not a true copy and therefore unacceptable .

I am sure you also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Failure to respond positively will be reported to the Financial Ombudsman Service and the Office of Fair Trading.

Yours faithfully

You could add :

"PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec) "

I think you also need to write a separate letter , pointing out that they stated that ' no further interest charges will be applied to your account. when this is clearly not the case . You should be able to ask that all interest charges levied after the account was closed as a bad debt should be cancelled.

As for contacting their collections agency by phone , I think I'd only do that once, to ask for their name & address so you can write to them ..... or you'll only get hassle about payments .....when you get the address , write and say you 'will only deal with them in writing in the future , in case of future legal action ' ..........

Have you also had all you need from the SAR .........

If not then you need to send a non-compliance letter to their Data Protection Branch (where you sent the SAR )

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/129-data-protection-act-non-compliance-template-letters-

breakanegg · July 20, 2009

Thanks Johnny,

That's really helpful, appreciate it.

The attachment is definitely a blank of what I would be expected to sign.

Details of conditions of loan, who agreement is between etc. is blank, also as can see, looks like a copy, of a copy, of a copy

WRT the SAR, well that's a little more confusing.

I think they more or less gave me what they were supposed to,

but I suspect they've attempted to deliberately confuse me, they succeeded!

Date Description Amount Balance

20-10-07 REG-PMT-EFF DTE 186.95 8135.00

20-10-07 REG-PMT-EFF DTE 186.95 7994.48

20-10-07 REG-PMT-EFF DTE 186.95 7851.69

20-10-07 REG-PMT-EFF DTE 186.95 7709.55

20-10-07 INT CAPITALISE 43.98 7753.53

This is complete gobbledegook to me.

Opening balance of £8135.00 for example, minus payment of £186.95 = £7948.05, not £7994.48

. If the difference is interest then it is not listed and so I have no idea and am just guessing,

also if it is then what is the INT CAPITALISE payment of £48.98 on 20-10-07.

20-11-08 INT CAPITALISE 36.45 6236.56

20-11-08 PAYMT REVERSAL 186.95 6423.51

5-12-08 LATE FEE 15.00 6423.51

20-12-08 INT CAPITALISE 35.48 6458.99

3-01-09 LATE FEE 15.00 6458.99

20-01-09 DFLTNOTICE 50.00 6458.99

20-01-09 INT CAPITALISE 36.86 6495.85

4-02-09 LATE FEE 15.00 6495.85

20-02-09 INT CAPITALISE 37.07 6532.92

The above really had me scratching head.

I couldn’t figure out WHAT was going on.

The above is exactly how it is typed.

the balance of £6532.92 doesn’t seem to include the 3 x 15 late fees nor the £50 DN fee at each line, however the closing balance of £6910.56 does.

seem to have incurred around £200 in penalties since 20/11/08 and however much in interest.

was going to write to them with the standard schedule of charges based upon that, stating they are unfair blah blah blah, maybe do that separate from the CCA letter?

Feeling bit better now, like I have a plan and a little less stupid, thank you.

Sorry guys,

The charges have posted all messy and difficult to read.

I've saved the tables as a pdf as attached which is a lot easier on the eye

HFC Attachment CCA.pdf

HFC SAR EXTRACT.pdf

breakanegg · August 3, 2009

Hi peeps,

I've had a letter through from HFC which looks like a conditional offer.

Not sure what to make of this. J

ust sent the CCA follow up, as mentioned before they have sent what I would typically sign along with a promise to send the real one when they are forwarded it by Marbles, so far nothing has arrived.

Here's the exact wording of the letter:

HFC Bank would like to help you settle your account and are able to accept 50% of the outstanding balance as full and final settlement of the account.

This offer is available for a limited time only.

We appreciate that you may be finding payment of this account difficult and, to help you resolve the matter, we are prepared to offeryou a substantial discount in the amount owing iiybu are able to settle the account.

The amount required to settle is as follows:

£6,775.56 x 50% = £3,387.78

Please note that this discount is valid until 14th September 2009.

I'm going to assume that to take them up on this I would need to pay off that £3,387.78 all at once, I'm not in a position to do that.

Any advice on what my next step should be?

Thanks in advance.

johnnymitch · August 3, 2009

Hi breakanegg

IMHO this is a last desperate ploy to get some money out of you at all costs - I think they can't produce the real one .... and they're trying to rush you into coughing up anything to cut their losses ...

Until they produce the all important document - I would pay them nothing .

No CCA means the debt is not enforceable .... and they know it .

Anyone else got any thoughts on this ? Please feel free to contribute ......lol!

Sorry , you asked for advice on what to do next ...... I would write and tell them that until they produce the real document to prove they have a right to collect , that you will consider the debt unenforceable and 'In Dispute'.

breakanegg · August 5, 2009

Sweet :-) Thanks once again Johnny, I've written another letter using that exact wording. So we shall see, I'm hoping they can't find it. I'm thinking no or they'd have done so already. Either way I've got my fingers and toes crossed!

breakanegg · July 4, 2010

Hi peeps,

I have received court papers from an agent acting on behalf of HFC for a loan.

I've attached a copy of the papers with personal info blanked out, I've had a read of this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html and just looking for some guidance and clarification on what to do next.

The agreement they say was back in December 2004, I'm in Scotland but the bank are in England so unsure if Scottish/English statutory limits apply here?

I haven't a copy of the original agreement and I made regular payments until around 2009 when I was made redundant I then went through the whole disputing charges, asking for a payment arrangement, telling their DCA's to get stuffed etc. No success.

I haven't before heard from the agent acting on behalf of HFC in these documents so I don't believe they've approached me for payment before.

I am unsure of the enforceability of the agreement and I have no idea if the sum they are suing for is accurate since I have no idea what it is made up of.

I was thinking my next step is to write the following letter asking them to disclose information they are relying on including the agreement:

IN SCOTLAND

In the XXXX Sheriff Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

Dear XXX

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, I request you to provide me with the information and documents detailed below.

I request that the information should be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, it may hamper proceedings and result in me filing an unnecessary defence or counter claim.

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it may delay or frustrate the equitable resolution of this matter and result in unnecessary cost for both parties.

Yours sincerely,

XXXX (type, don't sign).

I'm unsure if all information in the above thread is accurate since the case will call in Scotland.

What do you guys think? Is sending the above the best next step?

Bump!

Any advice on this be much appreciate peeps.

I have submitted form saying I plan to defend and paid £80 but no sure what to do next.

Can't afford solicitor so gonna need to defend myself. According to sheriff clerk's office (who can't give legal advice), sheriffs don't like you defending yourself at Ordinary Cause. Well that's not my fault can't afford a solicitor!

Hi peeps,

I have been issued with an Inhibition Order by HFC and am frantic with worry and unsure what to do next. I do own property and in fact have my flat (in Scotland) up for sale because I am now working and living in England.

I had a loan with HFC.

I stopped paying it as I was out of work and couldn't afford repayments.

Tried to make token payments but kept sending letters from various DCA's, even one offering settlement at a much lower amount.

I did not respond to DCA letters.

I then got work and moved to England but they commenced court proceedings against me.

I am a contractor and if I don't work I don't get paid coupled with the travel to Aberdeen I couldn't afford to tend court.

I instructed a local solicitor who charged an utter fortune for not very much,

I asked him to get proof of the debt and breakdown of the debt and he never did.

I discharged him because I couldn't afford his services, particularly when he wasn't helping me.

I then received a letter from HFC's solicitors saying that Decree had been granted (they are writing to me at my address in England) and that had gone to court Audtor for inspection.

I didn't know of the court date, whoever issues that I assume has tried to serve documents in person and not posted to my England address.

I have now received an Inhibition Order which prohibits me from selling any property in Scotland.

the problem is I am selling my flat in Scotland,

I cannot afford to pay rent down here and the mortgage on a flat.

It was up for sale in the beginning of January,

long before I got their inhibition order.

Does this mean that I cannot sell?

Does anyone know if they will inform potential buyers?

I imagine this would put a few off and in this market.....

..I can't have the few interested buyers being scared off.

Shouldn't I have been given a change to defend this action?

Finally, this being battled in the Scottish courts is a real hindrance, it's just not workable.

Is there anyway I can get this case heard in England?

The debt is for around £9000+costs.

I have no idea what the total sum sued for is,

nor their costs and

I have no idea what these costs are made up of.

Thanks to the useless solicitor who is now chasing me for £2000 for doing nothing!

Thanks in advance,

Breakanegg.

Court Papers re HFC Breakanegg .PDF

breakanegg · July 16, 2010

Hi Peeps,

I really need some help and advise,

I posted a thread here but have received no responses and the court case is progressing.

I'm at a loss as to how to proceed,

the procedures are a minefield

and I cannot get help because I cannot afford legal representation,

cannot get in touch with Citizen's Advice,

they NEVER answer their phone.

Please help.

I submitted the form stating I wished to defend as it was nearing the cut off date, paid the £80.

now I've received a letter from the court stating

"Intimation of Options Hearing, you are give notice that in this action:

23/07/2010 Is the last day for lodging defences

22/09/2010 Is the last day for making adjustments to the Writ or Defences

01/10/2010 Is the last day for intimating, together with your grounds, a note of any preliminary pleas

06/10/2010 Is the date of the Options Hearing."

now I'm really panicking because I have until just next Friday to submit a written defence and I've no clue where to start.

I have not seen the agreement they refer to so cannot comment on the enforceability.

I haven't seen the Default Notice so I cannot comment on whether that met the requirements.

I have received no statement of account so I have no idea what the whole amount they are requesting is made up of and whether that accurately reflects what I owe.

Does someone have any idea how I would go about defending this?

I am unsure whether I should be issuing a CCA request at this time, i.e. send me a copy of the executed agreement.

If so can someone please advise if I send this to HFC or the solicitors that are acting on their behalf in this action?

Should I also ask for a copy of the Default Notice and a statement that gives a breakdown of the sum they are claiming?

I'd really appreciate some help peeps.

Sorry if this comes across as pushy or impatient it's just that with next Friday being the deadline

I'll need to do something before Wednesday/Thursday latest to submit to court

and I haven't had any feedback on previous post so thought maybe in wrong place.

Many thanks in advance.

sillygirl1 · July 16, 2010

What is the company taking you to court and who are their solicitors, you will get a lot more help when we know this.

You should also get the moderators to change your thread to breakanegg v xxx/xxxx

breakanegg · July 16, 2010

Thanks for reply.

Posted copy of court papers in the other post, but for ease have attached again here.

It's HFC that are pursuing the loan and their solicitors are called Patten & Prentice.

Unsure how to get a moderator to change the title, if one is reading could you please change title of post to Breakanegg v HFC/Patten & Prentice?

Many thanks

Court Papers re HFC Breakanegg [1].pdf

**unclebulgaria67** · July 16, 2010

I understand that there are many legal advice centres in Scotland.

Check Money Advice Scotland - Find Local Money Advice Agency

You really need advice from someone who knows about the Scottish legal system.

Normally, you should request all the paperwork from the claimants, that they will be using in court. e.g credit agreement, default notice, statements of account.

From the information in your posts, it appears that in the first instance, you only need to outline the basics of your defence by next Friday. Then once you get hold of the full information from the claimants, you can submit further defence information before the date in September. I am sure if you asked the Courts staff, they will be able to shed light on what you need to do.

42man · July 16, 2010

Updating title...

breakanegg · July 16, 2010

Updating title...

Thank you

IdaInFife · July 17, 2010

hiya and welcome to cag,

1st of all,

have they supplied a copy of the agreement and default notice?

do you still have the default notice?

ida x

breakanegg · July 21, 2010

Hi Ida,

Sorry took so long to reply, couldn't find my thread as one was deleted as they were duplicated....... anyway

thanks so much for reply. I have not received any agreement nor default notice and I have no idea if what they claim I owe is accurate.

Moneyadvice places only provide advice on debt, not legal issues and CAB cannot provide an appointment for months, meantime I have to submit a written defence by Friday or HFC automatically get decree I believe.

So, i was thinking of submitting an embarrased defence at this stage? Wat think?

I was thinking that cannot prepare a written statement of defence as they have not given fair notice of their claim or something like that?

Was also going to write to the solicitors with the letter from the post that I now can't find :-? but it basically asked for copies of all documentation they seek to rely on in court etc etc.

I wondered if there were any examples of written defences in the forum anyone knew of?

Many thanks in advance,

Julie x

IdaInFife · July 21, 2010

wrote something stupid! doh!

You would need to file and Incidental Appliation for the documents you need,

I will post up some threads that you can read through that will give you insight as to what you need

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/176298-need-help-court-defence.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/195822-m-more-court-papers.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/180427-rrfcfan-court-wf-all.html

these are all differen but will give you the idea of the process and stages and what you will need

breakanegg · July 21, 2010

Thanks Ida, that's really helpful, those posts are quite interesting

I think I need to submit the letter below (Letter 1) to the solicitors so I can get the documents I need.

Where I'm a little stuck is the requirement to submit a defence by Friday, which in effect means sending it tomorrow.

There are examples of defences in those threads but they're worded as if the defendents have the agreement, DN, breakdown of charges etc, I don't have any of that.

I was thinking I should then apply for an Incidental Application as you advised,

however the problem with this is (LETTER 2) it seems to be to postpone a hearing, not a statement of defence, I'm getting self right muddled, lol

Can I submit an incidental for this case,

I believe it's ordinary cause requesting postponement of trial and requirement for a written defence until I get these documents?

LETTER 1: