Fredrickson / Iqor / DWP

[Muddeh]

Hi folks,

 

I am hoping that someone can point me in the right direction. I have read a lot of the great advice on this fine website but would like to clarify a couple of things, specifically whether benefit overpayments are statute barred.

 

I received a letter just over a week ago from a company called Frederickson International (lovely bunch) which demanded that I contact them regarding an alleged debt that they were collecting. Having no knowledge of them or any debt, and the fact that the letter contained no other detail "because of the data protection act" or some excuse, I treated this letter the way I would any other letter that looks like spam, and ignored it.

 

I did however take a check of my credit file with Experian and reassured myself that I have no "stealth debts" or any other debt that I could be being chased for.

 

6 days after the first letter I have received a "LETTER BEFORE ACTION" notice from Frederickson, demanding a small sum of money on behalf of their client iQor who were collecting on behalf of DWP. No proof provided, just a demand for payment with a threat of costs, court, etc.

 

Clearly I'm going to pay them money just because they have asked and offered no proof....

 

I found this odd so I rang the DWP to ask them about the alleged debt. It apparently dates to 1994 so is 17 years old.

 

My limited knowledge of the law tells me that they effectively have 6 years from the 1994 date to collect any overpayment (statue of limitations). I understand that I will still owe them outside that date range, but they won't be able to enforce the debt in a court. (please correct me if I have that wrong!)

 

The DWP also confirmed that they have no record of ever chasing this overpayment either in writing or by phone and passed the case directly to iQor without ever contacting me and they confirmed that they have my current address due to my sons disability payments. I suggested to them that their conduct by passing this on to a collection agency without contacting me, who have started to send me harrasing and "frightening" letters is disgraceful. The chappy I spoke to couldn't agree more.

 

I'd really appreciate advice on whether income support overpayments are covered by the statute of limitations and what sort of response I should send to Fredricksons.

 

Sorry for the long ramble,

 

Thanks

 

Muddeh.

[Muddeh]

Disapointed that I appear to have the only thread on here that didn't get a single reply Oh well.

 

I sent Fredericksons a polite "go away, I acknowledge no debt, its statute barred" letter and in the absence of a reply from the knowledgeable folks on here, I rang up the insolvency helpline UK (http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk) and they confirmed that income support overpayments can indeed become statute barred after 6 years.

 

I have now received a letter from "Bryan Carter" Solicitors on behalf of Frederickson's threatening to take me to court over the 17 year old debt if I don't pay within 14 days. (three letters from Fredericksons and Bryan Carters in the space of 10 days.)

 

I'm guessing this is more bluff and bluster as at no point has either Frederickson's or Bryan Carter replied to my letter or offered any proof that the debt can be enforced.

 

So I guess a letter to Bryan Carter now saying "Go away this debt is statute barred" ?

 

Advice would be appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Muddeh

[acerbic]

I think you are doing the right thing here, BC, as you know, are bullies. If, and that's a big if, they instigate court action, you can use the CPR to get them to discolse the documents they'll be using in court. You can still evaluate your position after that seeing these docs.

I think the insolvency people are correct, it's statute barred after six years without payment or acknowledgement of the debt, but some companies will try anything to get a pound of flesh.

 

Hope this helps you decide what to do, and let us know of any developments, we can help.

[count orlok]

You have to tell them it is SB and you won't be paying because it is SB. Untill you do thay can and will ask for payment, even though they know it is SB. Once you have told them to cease, they must.

[Muddeh]

Receive another letter, this time from Frederickson's.

 

I took some further (Free) advice from the legal helpline that I get with my house insurance.

 

Thanks guys, it's appreciated.

 

I've had another letter from Fredrickson's.

 

Fredrickson's are now saying : "We confirm the account is not statute barred as you were invoiced for the outstanding balance on XX/XX/XXXX" (Basically a date from last year, some 16 years after the alleged debt was supposedly incurred.)

 

They then go on to tell me how DWP may deduct this from my pension in like 30 years.

 

They then talk about how irrespective of ability to enforce, the debt is lawfully due etc. and could I please pay now.

 

It sounds like they have hit a wall and they know the debt isn't enforceable by them. But it still irks me that they lie about things like sending invoices and saying the debt isn't statute barred when it is. Cretins.

 

So, I'm drafting a letter saying basically :

 

• I still do not acknowledge this alleged debt.
  
• You are idiots for trying to mislead me with lies about invoices (office of fair trading guidance on debt collection)
  
• Even if you did send an invoice for the alleged debt last year, it was statute barred then and still is. pretending to send me an invoice does not magically restart the statute clock after 16 years. (section 5 of the limitation act.)
  
• You contest that it's statute barred, My lawyer states otherwise so Prove it.
  
• I've told you twice now I'm not paying, now you are harassing me bugger off or I will initiate action against you for harassment.
  

 

Too much ? I know it's childish but I really want to tell them where to get off due to the deceitful and misleading way in which they have tried to extract money from me and for their bull**** intimidation tactics sending solicitors letters and so on.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Muddeh
Typo & Extra info.

[dpick]

Just ignore them as you say the debt is SB though the DWP can take the debt off any future benefit/ state pension that you may get in the future. Ignoring hurts them more than writing to them, if you write to them they think they may be able to get a payment from you.

 

dpick

[acerbic]

I totally agree with dpick, why waste the postage? Just ignore them. The only time you need to even consider what action to take is if a county court claim were to be issued, (even then, you have an absolute defence of SB). Ignore them and get on with your life knowing that they can do absolutely nothing to you.

[Muddeh]

Thanks for the advice folks. I've decided to leave it and ignore them. If they send anything else through I'll deal with it it due course, but for now they can take a running jump .

 

Cheers

[borisbeaver]

Being invoiced does not change the status of the SB, only if you were to either acknowledge the debt or may a payment.

[count orlok]

You could take out a full page add in the national dailies saying you owed x the money and give em a few quid to boot, but that would not change the status of the SB. Once SB allways SB.

[ArtisanUK]

Thanks for the advice folks. I've decided to leave it and ignore them. If they send anything else through I'll deal with it it due course, but for now they can take a running jump .

Please take Frederickson's egregiously disingenuous letter to your local trading standards department, as the untruths you have detailed are so grievous as to cast serious doubt on whether they should continue to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

 

Telling someone that an alleged debt to the DWP can be stopped from their pension 30+ years hence is such obvious nonsense that one might wonder what the letter's author thinks of this planet and how soon he will return to planet Kwacko.

[dpick]

I am afraid that the DWP stopping money from future state pension payments is correct the same rules do not apply to DWP as to normal creditors.

 

dpick

[achvour]

I am afraid that the DWP stopping money from future state pension payments is correct the same rules do not apply to DWP as to normal creditors.

 

dpick

 

I would agree. I have a debt going back to 1985 with the DWP for overpaid Income Support. They have been taking 1/3 of my benefits since 2000 to clear it. If it isn't cleared by 2014, they will take 1/3 off my OAP until it is cleared

[Muddeh]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks for the comments

 

ArtisanUK, taking your point, I've contacted both Trading Standards and the OFT to complain re their fitness to hold a license due to their nefarious business practices.

 

I had not heard anything from Fredrickson's for a while, I fgured they had got the message. No such luck!

 

Today I received another letter from them stating that they are giving me a "final opportunity" to pay before they recommend their client to "instruct solicitors to issue a claim" at my address.

 

They also kindly offer to take my payment by credit card and further state I have to contact them within 48 hours to avoid "proceedings".

 

So the letters I've sent them asking them to substantiate their claims or **** off seem to have been ignored, as is the point I made to them about harassment.

 

One thing I have noticed though, that is a subtle change in the language used. They have stopped directly threatening or mentioning court action, instead they allude to "proceedings" or "issued claims". Is this because they know what they are saying has no legal basis? Should I expect a court summons ? To be honest, I would love to stand up in court and destroy them.

 

In terms of writing back to them, it seems that no matter what I write, they ignore it and continue to harass me. At what point can I take action against them ?

 

Cheers,

 

Muddeh

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I think sending a SAR to the DWP might give you the full picture.

 

Certainly the threats to attach the state pension seem spurious to me,these people have no idea of the laws

and regulations that govern the of the minimum the law says you must have to live on.

A letter to your MP?

[Muddeh]

I think sending a SAR to the DWP might give you the full picture.

 

Certainly the threats to attach the state pension seem spurious to me,these people have no idea of the laws

and regulations that govern the of the minimum the law says you must have to live on.

A letter to your MP?

 

I spoke to a very unhelpful and uninformed person at the DWP today as I wanted to get as much info on this as I can (short of a SAR which I plan on sending next), I asked her when the last payment was listed against this debt, and she said December 1994.

 

I asked her if 16 years and 6 months does not make this statue barred and she said no because they routinely sue people for up to 20 years after an overpayment. She categorically told me that the SL does not apply to benefit overpayments. She also refused to discuss the behaviour of their supplier, or rather their suppliers supplier, (IQOR --> Fredrickson) in the attempted collection of this so called debt and stated I have to complain to Fredrickson. Bit difficult when they won't acknowledge my complaint.

 

I chuckled and thanked her for her help.

 

Not really sure what else to do. I've drafted a strongly worded letter to Fredrickson, sent a complaint to the OFT. Contacted the FSA who told me they have no jurisdiction over collection of benefit overpayment by a 3rd partly on behalf of the DWP and I have to complain to the DWP or the "Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman".

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

What a shambolic lot I have been through this and have had confirmed that these debts are in purview

of the Limitations Act.although only the Secretary of State can write off the debt.

 

The debt remains alive and they can check if your circumstances have changed and if you can now pay.

The rules say that they can recover debts from means tested benefits if your income is above the minimum set in law.

 

I have dealt with one case where a DCA had confirmed that an overpayment was SB but DWP had genuine records of payments

during the 6 years.

As this mistake was made by the DCA on behalf of DWP they

agreed that no court action would ensue,but they would contact

periodically to see if the persons had any means to pay, contact was made once in 18 months.

Edited May 12, 2011 by BRIGADIER2JCS
Extra insight

[Muddeh]

short update : I finally got to speak to someone today at Trading Standards (or consumer direct as they seem to call themselves) The took details of Fredrickson's behaviour to date and then said as they aren't "traders" there is nothing they can do.

 

Oh well. See what the OFT have to say next

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

My feelings are that you shoul now escalate this with a complaint to The Secretary of State For Work and Pesions an

your MP.

As the secretary is responsible for employing this useless mob of leaches.

[Rhinotested]

I also received a letter of this sort today and have taken much interest in what has happened here. I too shall be sending in a letter stating I have NO IDEA what debt this is. Wish me luck

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Rhino, please give some more details

on what the debt to to the DWP is and

how it occurred, have you been contacted

by DWP debt management before this letter,

I have considerable experience in dealing with

this type of debt and you need to be careful

how you approach the matter, we can help

you more easily with more information before

you write anything.

 

Brig.