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Oh My Goodness.... so you have a TR4 with Eurosail UK 2007 1NC PLC - a Mortgage Sale Agreement - who is on the Title? is it them as well??

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Never got the Mortgage Sale Agreement but the TR4 is interesting. It shows the beneficial interest of the Eurosail from the inception of the loan. It also shows that the transferor and transferee of the loan are both Sunil Masson, a director of Eurosail, signing away the loan with the power of attorney set up when the loan was sold on. So there is nothing to link the Eurosail with SPPL on the TR4. The Land Registry apparently cleared the wholesale transfer of the loans in London and apparently did the checks of the power of attorney and the mortgage sale agreements centrally so the registrars who were in local LR offices never ever saw the agreements which linked SPPL and the SPV and just rubber stamped them. This means that the Land Registry documents for the properties that are used for the security do not have the MSA and the PoA documents with them as they are held elsewhere so you cannot get at them through the LR. Do you think it is worth trying to get hold of the MSA?

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As you know...mortgage securitisation is as complex as property law....and with the two interconnected - we are having a real game trying to look into the various types of securitisation models..

 

What you need to do is get as much info as possible and get it all filed - this will include the MSA.

 

does this help you in any way?

 

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/eurosail-uk-2007-1nc-notice-162417271.html

 

This extract is from the document found in the Prospectus:

 

"prior to the Closing Date, drafts (subject to minor amendment), and after the Closing Date,

copies, of the following legal documents:

(i) the Master Securitisation Agreement (incorporating the Master Definitions Schedule,

the Common Terms, the Paying Agency Agreement, the Cash/Bond Administration

Agreement, the Mortgage Administration Agreement, the Bank Agreement, the

Liquidity Facility Agreement, the GIC and the Post Enforcement Call Option

Agreement;

(ii) the Trust Deed;

(iii) the Deed of Charge;

(iv) the Mortgage Sale Agreement;

(v) the Collection Account Declarations of Trust;

(vi) the Bullet Cap Agreement;

(vii) the Currency Swap Agreements;

(viii) the Fixed/Floating Swap Agreement;

(ix) the Fixed/Floating Swap Guarantee;

(x) the BBR Swap Agreement;

192

(xi) the BBR Swap Guarantee;

(xii) the Scottish Trusts; and

(xiii) the Corporate Services Agreement.

10. The Issuer does not intend to provide post issuance information to Noteholders in respect of the

Mortgage Pool or the Notes.

11. Any certificate or report of the auditors of the Issuer, or any other person called for by or provided to

the Trustee in accordance with or for the purposes of the Transaction Documents, may be relied upon

by the Trustee as sufficient evidence of the facts stated therein (whether or not such certificate or report

and/or any engagement letter or other document entered into by the Trustee in connection therewith

contains a monetary or other limit on the liability of the auditors of the Issuer or such other person in

respect thereof)."

 

http://www.ise.ie/debt_documents/eurosail_6688.pdf

 

Hope this helps?

 

Apple

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/28/idUKWLA812620120528

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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Hi I know i should start a new thread but cannot find out how to :(

Basically I have had my statement from Preferred/acenden which states the following;

 

Payment Arrears £4437.53

 

Charges as a result of missed payments £2.127.13

 

Total overdue balance £4636.01

 

Other amounts due £198.48

 

It is the charges i am concerned about can i claim them back ?

 

I appreciate any support with this, thanking you all in advance.

 

Not ignoring you - just to say, you will find loads of help on claiming back charges in the early part of this thread - me thinks or go to 'new posts' and search from there - or as you said - see if you can get a new thread started : )

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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i found out today that the SPV with whom I have the loan, Eurosail UK 2007 1NC PLC, lost its credit licence in March of this year, and is down to one director (source Companies House) The OFT told me when I rang them and asked about the lapsed credit licence that the company had more than likely ceased trading! Being without a licence makes it a criminal act to take any legal action, and must surely make the loans and mortgage agreements unenforceable?

 

Your concern is only with the company you directly deal with when it comes to credit licences.

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Hi I know i should start a new thread but cannot find out how to :(

Basically I have had my statement from Preferred/acenden which states the following;

 

Payment Arrears £4437.53

 

Charges as a result of missed payments £2.127.13

 

Total overdue balance £4636.01

 

Other amounts due £198.48

 

It is the charges i am concerned about can i claim them back ?

 

I appreciate any support with this, thanking you all in advance.

 

The first thing you need to do is get all of your statements and SAR them, preferably a few times with a few days between, (even better if you have a joint account as you can cross-check them) and get a statement of arrears. Look at why they have charged you and for any mistakes. You will need a calculator, pen and paper and a couple of days to go through it all, and by days that will mean working hours and not just a couple of evenings. Request everything from them including receipts for 'legal' work and 'court costs'.

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Hi thanks for replying, I will ring and SAR them and pay the £10 later today. It is not a joint account. I have asked previously for proof of legal costs and was told we don't get individual bills just one for all of our customers from the solicitor !!!!!!

 

I am at the point of just wanting to give the keys back I have been under a suspended order for just over 2 years and never missed a payment until June because my daughter was ill in hospital and i needed extra money for transport etc. I have also attempted to sell the house for over 3 years now but with no luck :(. Catch 22 Acenden will not let me rent because of the arrears yet i have people ready to move in if i could rent it out so i don't see the problem as long as Acenden get their money.

 

Fed up now with it all, I want to get on with my life but feel it is on hold at the moment.

 

Thanks again

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Hi Sappho - (have you had a look at the discussion thread on Mortgage securitisation yet? there may be useful titbits that may help here)

 

In answer to your question, this is a complex area with regard to securities - because it is not only the FSA as an Authority that is involved.

 

I know of at least OFT - credit licences, the FSA - SPV's register whilst they are registered and selling securities through the ISE (Irish Stock Exchange) or the LSE (London Stock Exchange) not to mention a whole host of Legislation - that underpins the various regulated Authorities...

 

But, yes the Administration Company must be licensed as well as they actually administer the loan payments.

 

Apple

[COLOR="red"][B][CENTER]"Errors do not cease to be errors simply because they’re ratified into law.” [/CENTER][/B][/COLOR][B][CENTER] E.A. Bucchianeri[/CENTER][/B]

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You need a CCL to deal with any debts, credit or just to give free advice. As long as the admin. holds one they can act on behalf of the company to a consumer. It may sound like a grand title having a Consumer Credit Licence but they were easy to get and I've had one. They used to last 5 years but the stakes have been upped and more proof is insisted upon as well as having to pay more, but it's a drop in the ocean to these companies. If you ever do come across a company that contacts you and doesn't have a CCL then pass it on to Trading Standards. I had a 009 process servor, he didn't make the 007 grade with his unstealthy tactics, but was brought to task when his licence to unthrill had lapsed.

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Hi thanks for replying, I will ring and SAR them and pay the £10 later today. It is not a joint account. I have asked previously for proof of legal costs and was told we don't get individual bills just one for all of our customers from the solicitor !!!!!!

 

I am at the point of just wanting to give the keys back I have been under a suspended order for just over 2 years and never missed a payment until June because my daughter was ill in hospital and i needed extra money for transport etc. I have also attempted to sell the house for over 3 years now but with no luck :(. Catch 22 Acenden will not let me rent because of the arrears yet i have people ready to move in if i could rent it out so i don't see the problem as long as Acenden get their money.

 

 

 

Fed up now with it all, I want to get on with my life but feel it is on hold at the moment.

 

Thanks again

 

Don't call them. Get everything in writing and with proof of delivery. If they are saying you can't have a breakdown of legal costs then that's just rubbish. You have a right to see what you are being charged for.

 

Don't give the keys back whatever you do! The debt will only increase and you'll be funding 2 homes and one of which you aren't living in.

 

Back to basics..Can you afford to still stay in the house if you're cut some slack? Would the rent cover the costs of the house, plus pay off the arrears over time, and let you move away? You'd still need insurance and have other costs as a landlord.

 

Is it a 1st mortgage, 2nd mortgage or a loan? Do you have any equity in the property? What have you been ordered to pay?

 

It's a horrrible situation to be in, especially when you've had a child that has been ill and with circumstances beyond your control. There are things you can do and I'd start collecting as much as you can and lodge a complaint with the FOS to start with. You'll have to have exhausted everything with Acenden first but that doesn't take much. Despite arrears, it is unfair that they won't let you rent out your home to keep up the payments. The contract is completely biased towards the lender and, you'll find that even people that have kept up with payments are refused to let or charged a ludicrous price to do so.

 

You can hold on and do something, so don't give up and think anyone doesn't care.

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Just got a response from the Office of Fair Trading. The SPV's do need a CCL. They have told me to take it up with the FSO whilst they investigate, so yet another wait for an answer!!!!

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Good news Sappho. Had a look on the OFT website, once a licence has lapsed, it can't be renewed. The company had to apply for a new licence.

 

It is also true for CCA regulated loans both the administrator (acenden) and the creditor (spv) have to have a licence. If it was FSA regulated only Acenden need to be authorised/regulated.

 

To make sure no problems arise in terms of the CCA did your loan meet the CCA requirements in term of amount and date ?

 

You just have to make sure your loan is still with that specific eurosail

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Not sure the FOS will be help though, they aren't regulators and can't as a rule take any enforcement action. If you look at the CCA agreement threads the FOS won't say if an agreement is enforceable or not.

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I wonder if an unenforceable agreement has an impact upon the rights associated with the charge, as it is a secured loan.

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Well, I am in the dark too. Though I live in hope I don't for a minute think this is a magic bullet - though it would be a good one to fling down in front of a judge. Cause a delay if nothing else. i think it is yet another anomaly caused by the nonsense that is securitisation. What exactly is the SPV? It's not a broker, a mortgage company, it services the loans for their own investors but at arm's length, does not engage with the consumer (as you rightly point out Crapstone) other than to take the borrower to court and take their property off them. Indeed we don't even have a loan anymore it's an MBS. Eurosail 1NC did use to have a CCL until it lapsed which implies that it did need one in the past, and the other Eurosails all have CCL's. Acenden themselves say quite firmly that Eurosail 1NC DOES have a licence. Something may come out of this.

 

Sappho

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Has anyone else had an annual statement recently that is totally wrong and then had another letter following to say that they beggared it up and apologise? A 3 year old with an abacus could do better. They've listed figures that were deducted but with no deduction on the statement and also not under their refund. Plus a strange amount of £329, ( that's not the exact figure)taken under 'insurance' and then refunded a week later.

 

How can they not do a simple annual statement and properly conduct an account? Well they can pay me again as I shouldn't have to put up with their faults.

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Hi

 

Not been on here for good while I had a perfect credit rating before mortgaged with this lot. I had a mortgage with the abbey before never defaulted. I was passed on to these by a broker in 2008 the libor rate was out of control my mortgage was based on 3month libor. They were sending me letters every week and putting rate up but had to wait 3months for it to go down. I know this rate was being manipulated. Almost cost me my house still over £5000 in arrears but paying it off monthly most of this is charges and stuff, what should I do to start getting these people to pay for the damage they have done. I haven't done anything yet about charges. The libor scandal is just proof to what this company has done.

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Hi

 

Not been on here for good while I had a perfect credit rating before mortgaged with this lot. I had a mortgage with the abbey before never defaulted. I was passed on to these by a broker in 2008 the libor rate was out of control my mortgage was based on 3month libor. They were sending me letters every week and putting rate up but had to wait 3months for it to go down. I know this rate was being manipulated. Almost cost me my house still over £5000 in arrears but paying it off monthly most of this is charges and stuff, what should I do to start getting these people to pay for the damage they have done. I haven't done anything yet about charges. The libor scandal is just proof to what this company has done.

 

Your rate would have been fixed for 3 months and would not go up or down before the date due so it would not have changed weekly. The rate at that time seems to have been manipulated downwards so you may have gained an advantage rather than a loss. You need to address the charges first and and get all your statements together. SAR them and ask for EVERYTHING and then go through every single charge, credit and debit since you've had the mortgage. A couple of evenings with a pen, paper and a calculator and you should see some faults.

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Just had a modest victory from the FSO. Had a number of charges refunded on the grounds that when I was making the monthly contractual payment on time they were wrong to impose late arrears fees or litigation fees despite the fact there were uncleared arrears (from past charges)

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Excellent news....any chance you can post up the 'decision' on here (minus the personal details) This will hopefully help others...

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I will post extracts from this decision later on today.

 

The rest of the decision was not good news and I will be challenging it. Acenden started legal proceedings in August 2011 for repossession after we were late paying in May last year. We made the payment up in full within three weeks so we have had no missed payments at all and all arrears solely consist of charges, nearly all of which they have agreed to refund. The FSO have upheld Acenden's right to repossess on the grounds of one late payment. The application for repossession was made one month into the statutory period that Acenden have to answer a complaint from us - which was for the unfair charges to be reimbursed - and under the OFT guidelines for unfair practice, taking legal action whilst they are considering a reasonable complaint is defined as an unfair practice ( according to the OFT. I would argue that if a practice is "unfair" under OFT rules then they are in breach of the FSA requirement to "Treat Customers Fairly") As our complaint was successful it was of course "reasonable"!!!! I also argue they have breached a number of MCOB rules as well as their action was blatantly not after all attempts to negotiate had failed, as we were paying the monthly contractual payment with an overpayment according to an arrangement. Although they agreed to remove many of the charges in response to our complaint (and have subsequently agreed to remove others in response to our complaint through the FSO) and agreed in October last year to adjourn their application for repossession they refused to remove their application from the listings and told us they could only do so in person - which is a lie - so for six weeks the repossession application appeared on the court listings until the day of the hearing in December. We have now been charged £414 for their adjourned application, which presumably includes the cost of travel across the country to remove the application - something they could have done in five minutes on-line - and we do not see why we should pay for an action they should never have taken. Had we gone into court we think the judge would have probably dismissed their case for repossession so it was a vexatious application in any event. Presumably Acenden were hoping we would not defend the case and not attend and they could get our house without a fight. I have complained about their refusal to abide by OFT guidelines and Acenden say they do not have to. I'd like to know why as it is a consumer credit act agreement. I would also like to know why the FSO thinks they neither have to abide by OFT guidelines or MCOB rules and why Eurosail does not have a consumer credit agreement but the FSO to date has refuse to answer these points.

 

Not giving up on this one. anybody out there with any advice or experience with MCOB?

 

Sappho

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I've copied the above 3 posts to a thread for Sappho so those wanting to help can do so here. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?360657-Sappho-s-Loan-2nd-Mortgage

 

I'm leaving it here too for more general comments and discussion.

 

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Thanks apple, I think I now get this. So Eurosail 1NC needed a CCL for the very early period when it was floating the Mortgage Notes on the Irish and London Stock Exchange and when the charitable Trust arrangements were being set up. Now that has been done Eurosail 1NC no longer needs it for its current role and the significance of March 2012 is that it was a five year licence which has now lapsed. As 1NC was an early one the rest of the SPV's will presumbably be letting their CCL's lapse as well and we should see this over the coming months.

 

So is this important to us? Well, not on the surface of it, however, in the case of second charge loans, the FSO has jurisdiction only over companies with CCL's, so unless I've missed something the SPV's will be out of the FSO's reach - for the second charge loans anyway. Please tell me I'm wrong......

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