Phoenix bailiff complaint.RE:CTAX enforcement .next move advice???

[ajd01]

I need some advice pretty quick so i klnow where i stand.I had letter dropped of the other day saying that i have to make a payment for £442 for my council tax But i only owe £227...I did break break a payment plan that i arranged,but over £200 in charges added???.This is the first letter i had and it was hand delivered,no van ect??I rang today but the ballif in charge said he does not have to provide a detail of charges and they are attending on thursday.

what should i do,i do have the money to pay it all but i wantr to know what these charges are for.

 

Please,any advice

 

cheers

[FairPlay77]

As the letter was hand-delivered you, technically speaking, owe them £24.50 for their visit, and if they have made a second visit you owe them a further £18. Providing that you have not allowed them into your home and have not signed a Walking Possession Order, they cannot add on additional fees. If you you have done the above, the matter is more complicated.

 

You may,also find that an amount has been adding on to cover the magistrates' court costs (the council should have referred the matter to the court before calling in the bailffs).

 

Find out from the council what the total amount is (including any court costs) and pay them directly. DO NOT PAY THE BAILIFFS, as they have obviously tried to defraud you by adding on extra charges. The bailiffs are obliged to give you a breakdown of their charges: they are lying if they say they do not have to do so. Find out at which county court they are registered and file a complaint against them and the individual bailiff concerned.

 

By the way which bailiff company is involved?

[ajd01]

Hi,First off..Thanks for the reply.

The wife did sign a walkin order back in march,i was not home at the time.The company involved is pheonix.

I can understand them charging,but this just seems like they are taking advantage.Like i said the money is not the problem,i do have it and can pay,buit i just annoys me that the ballif is saying the do not have to show me a breakdown of cost.I did think of paying direct to the council minus there fees but would they still be able to continue withthere actions.Should i pay the ammount and then file a complaint or stand firm and demand that they show the fews??.

[surfaceagentx20]

On the back of the walking possession form there should be set out what are known as Schedule 5 charges. These are charges which the bailiff is authorised to make under the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. The 1992 Regs have been amended umpteen times since 1992.

 

Look at the walking possession form and see if the charges are there. They should be. It's a breach of Regulation 45 to not do so.

 

Here is a statement of what I belive the bailiff's charge should amount to

 

A(i) First visit (no levy) £24.50

A(ii) Second visit (no levy) £18.00

 

B Levy Fee £24.50 + £100.01 - 500.00 4% £5.08

Levy Fee total: £29.58 (Round Up = £30.00)

 

E(ii) Walking Possession Fee £12.00

H Release Fee £24.50

 

Total: £109.00

 

In other words the total you should be paying the bailiff to be completely shot of him where council tax arrears was £227.00, is whatever is now owing for council tax arrears + £109.00.

 

If he doesn't accept £109.00 ask him where he thinks you're going wrong with the calculation and compare what he says with the Schedule 5 figures.

 

x20

[kermit2482]

The bailiff is entitled in this case to charge a van call as this is an enforcement visit as the poster has breached the WPO!!!

[ajd01]

I have just looked through the schedule on the back of the form and i can see where the £109 is coming from...That is brilliant help.I will comfont them with that on thursday.

As a matter of interest should i still file a complaint if the figure on the letter is wrong??It also threatens to turn up with locksmith and police to gain entry for goods,surely this is threating behaviour,or can they actually do this??

It really annoys me,not so much for myself but thinking about others that maybe could'nt pay and dont know where to get advice from that they just add charges.

 

Anyway,grounds for complaint if the figure he has written on is wrong???..

and by £130 ish

[ajd01]

The letter he left was : Notice before removal..

 

And he certainly did not come in van,so how can they charge for this??

[surfaceagentx20]

Kermit,

 

The right to make a van charge would only exist if the bailiff attended with a vehicle 'with a view to removing the goods'. Since the bailiff came armed with a letter to deliver saying 'pay up or we'll come to collect the goods on Thursday' , his attendance was not 'with a view to removing the goods' but rather with a view to delivering that letter. The 'view to removing the goods' is diarised for Thursday, a day set in the future.

 

Subject to what you or other subsequent posters may say is the folly in my argument, I would attend the bailiff's office at any time between now and Thursday with cash sufficient to meet whatever is owing for council tax arrears, plus £109.00.

 

x20

[kermit2482]

I think you will find that all bailiffs arrive in a van otherwise we would not be able to charge van calls, and if your not in when we call for an enforcement (van call ) Then you are charged as such and a letter is left, this is because it was not the bailiffs fault you were not there when they attended, remember a bailiff does not have to notify you of his/her intention to call, however as per usual on this site you lot will make all the excuses you can, No wonder TT and WWOW dont post anymore, you lot keep shooting yourselves in the foot.

 

Also the truth of the matter is as advised on this site YOU IGNORE them then you all crib about the charges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

FACT NOT FICTION !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I make this post in generalisation and not aimed directly at the original poster.

[ajd01]

Kermit,

These arrears are from when i was working for 12 months in the US and lost track of things in UK.Yeah i should have paid it,but things do slip sometimes.

My wife was actually here at the time he called,he was in a car and was actually very abusive towards her with a really tough guy attitude.Maybe some including yourself do things the right way,but this clown didnt,and i can tell you if it had been me answering the door he would have been more polite.

You are balliff i presume with the way have worded your reply??In that case can you tell me if has to give me a breakdown of charges??

[kermit2482]

Kermit,

These arrears are from when i was working for 12 months in the US and lost track of things in UK.Yeah i should have paid it,but things do slip sometimes.

My wife was actually here at the time he called,he was in a car and was actually very abusive towards her with a really tough guy attitude.Maybe some including yourself do things the right way,but this clown didnt,and i can tell you if it had been me answering the door he would have been more polite.

You are balliff i presume with the way have worded your reply??In that case can you tell me if has to give me a breakdown of charges??

 

Most unusual for a bailiff to arrive in a car, our council would not permit this and im sorry you have had the misfortune of coming across as you put it a so called tough guy!!!

 

As for the charges your not being unreasonable to ask for a breakdown of charges, however this must be put in writing to the company the bailiff works for and give them a time period in which to respond.

[robin9342]

ajd01, If, as you say you have enough money to pay, then go to the council and pay the liability order. This then stops any bailiff action. Technically, they would still be entitled to their legitimate fees (NOT the van fee, because the bailiff has NOT attended "with a view to remove").

 

BUT they cannot use the liability order to enforce their fees once you have paid it. They would have to take you to court to get their fees and that is unlikely because a judge would not be impressed to see their illegal overcharging...

[surfaceagentx20]

1 A debtor does not need to be in when the van turns up to enforce the levy in circumstances where there has been a breach of the terms of the walking possession order. The bailiff would be within his rights to break an entry. So let's say he turned up with a van (which he didn't) why not get on with the purpose of the visit? (for answer see para 4).

 

2 I would agree that even a bailiff is entitled to the courtesy of being allowed a little time to produce a statement of fees. Thing is, a statement of Schedule 5 Fees to date is easily completed by the bailiff on the doorstep. Why does he need more time? Why does he need to receive a request in writing which includes a date by when the statement of fees is to be supplied? Does he require thinking time?

 

3 And when he has kindly produced his statement of fees, will he accompany his statement with a gentle request that payment be tendered within 14 days? I don't think so.

 

4 The answer is plainly that the typical bailiff's modus operandi is geared towards the maximising of the fees and to this end he cares precious little for either [1] his client or [2] the debtor. Client councils and the like know this but merrily turn a blind eye to the mischief that is done in their name. Debtors, primarily the low-waged, the vulnerable and so forth, will continue to endure suffering from Messrs Bailiff & Council LLP until someone somewhere develops a conscience. No one with council tax arrears should hold their breath. And likewise bailiff firms will have to get over the fact (which I am sure they will accomplish with effortless alacrity) that their tactics are questionable, their charges are regularly inflated and so are frequently available to challenge, and that owing to all of which, their esteem in the eyes of right-thinking people is somewhere around pavement level.

 

With apologies and rant over

 

x20

[palomino]

and if your not in when we call for an enforcement (van call ) Then you are charged as such and a letter is left, this is because it was not the bailiffs fault you were not there when they attended, remember a bailiff does not have to notify you of his/her intention to call, however as per usual on this site you lot will make all the excuses you can,

 

Nor is it the persons fault that the bailiff called while they were out. You think it perfectly acceptable that you can charge a person for going about their normal and lawful affairs.

 

And you wonder why you attract vitriol ...

[tonycee]

however as per usual on this site you lot will make all the excuses you can, No wonder TT and WWOW dont post anymore, you lot keep shooting yourselves in the foot.

Also the truth of the matter is as advised on this site YOU IGNORE them then you all crib about the charges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FACT NOT FICTION !!!!!!!!!!!!

.

 

Thats a lot of toys to be throwing out of your pram.

 

Calm down deary.

[ajd01]

Just a quick update.

Spoke to the balliff today and asked for a breakdown of fees and he started reeling numbers off.I used the fees stated on here and said that is what i get(thank you x20).Once i did this he actually did not want to speak to me and said he was unwilling to deal with the case,would not be turning up tomorrow and was passing it back to the office and i should ring them.....Strange????

Now the really strange thing...from £442.44,i speak to the office and they give me total ammount of £277.44 (£50 fees)...Now i dont know how they got this slight difference in fees but who cares it is settled..

[tonycee]

Spoke to the balliff today and asked for a breakdown of fees and he started reeling numbers off.

 

Made up numbers to extort the maximum amount from the unsuspecting public.

 

I used the fees stated on here and said that is what i get(thank you x20).Once i did this he actually did not want to speak to me and said he was unwilling to deal with the case,would not be turning up tomorrow and was passing it back to the office and i should ring them.....Strange????

 

Well done to for sticking to yours guns. Here is another example that if you stand up to them, they know, or least least should know, that they are wrong.

 

Now the really strange thing...from £442.44,i speak to the office and they give me total ammount of £277.44 (£50 fees)...Now i dont know how they got this slight difference in fees but who cares it is settled..

 

Not strange to those of us who expect it, I am really pleased for you that it is settled.

 

Top marks.

[letsmakeamark]

Done and dusted. Send them a sar and see what they say. Works very very well.

[kermit2482]

Nor is it the persons fault that the bailiff called while they were out. You think it perfectly acceptable that you can charge a person for going about their normal and lawful affairs.

 

And you wonder why you attract vitriol ...

 

Thet get a letter 1st visit and second visit before van call stage How many ruddy chances do you have to give people to respond before charging a van call !!!!!!!!!! Typical answer from a poster of this forum!!!!!

[kermit2482]

Just a quick update.

Spoke to the balliff today and asked for a breakdown of fees and he started reeling numbers off.I used the fees stated on here and said that is what i get(thank you x20).Once i did this he actually did not want to speak to me and said he was unwilling to deal with the case,would not be turning up tomorrow and was passing it back to the office and i should ring them.....Strange????

Now the really strange thing...from £442.44,i speak to the office and they give me total ammount of £277.44 (£50 fees)...Now i dont know how they got this slight difference in fees but who cares it is settled..

 

Glad its all sorted for you

[palomino]

Thet get a letter 1st visit and second visit before van call stage How many ruddy chances do you have to give people to respond before charging a van call !!!!!!!!!!

 

and

 

remember a bailiff does not have to notify you of his/her intention to call

 

I'm confused.

[letsmakeamark]

Kermit seems to be a traditional bailiff dishing out traditional advice. It could be though he may have your case and at the same time be following you about on this forum !!!!

[kermit2482]

Kermit seems to be a traditional bailiff dishing out traditional advice. It could be though he may have your case and at the same time be following you about on this forum !!!!

 

 

I can assure you i dont have the case and rest assured i wish the op all the best!!

[ajd01]

just a quick question to see if anybody else has had this and the reason they may be doing this.

the debt is related to council tax that i just pay direct to the council via there website..

but the bailiffs keep posting letters through the door.the one that says we called but you were out,and we will be returning ro remove goods..

strang thing is they do this somerime before 8am when we are in bed??

 

Anybody else had this and what are they trying to achieve...

 

confused

[ploddertom]

just a quick question to see if anybody else has had this and the reason they may be doing this.

the debt is related to council tax that i just pay direct to the council via there website..

but the bailiffs keep posting letters through the door.the one that says we called but you were out,and we will be returning ro remove goods..

strang thing is they do this somerime before 8am when we are in bed??

 

Anybody else had this and what are they trying to achieve...

 

confused

 

The Council have passed your details over to the Bailiff for collection - I assume you know you have a Liability Order against you. They are visiting early in the hope they can possibly levy against some goods outside - car perhaps - which will bump their fees up. The chances are they have already charged you for 2 visit fees - total £42-50 - this should be detailed on the letters they are posting.

 

As long as you keep on as you are they will eventually pass the account back to the Council and as you are paying they will find it difficult to take any further action.

 

PT