Hi...Help CRB Check

[CRBehave]

Hello people.

 

I read a post on this site and it seems that the community here may have some advice for me.

 

 

An associate of mine who works In schools and has 1to1 unrestricted access to children has encountered a serious problem that he needs help with. Obviously his Job requires a CRB check which up until recently was clean....

 

 

Unfortunately and for no apparent reason, someone unknown to him rang the police and accused him of Rape...

 

My Friend was in a pub the whole time with a tonne of witnesses, CCTV footage, alabies the lot. But unfortunately the police chucked him in the slammer for 24 hours...only later to realise that the claim was completely bogus and the statement made no sense whatsoever.

 

A month down the line the Police have dropped the case due to evidence, it didnt even make it too court... but the charge for rape is still on the CRB. Dispite being cleared the schools he worked in had to let him go and his career is totally destoryed, despite the fact he is cleared, the case is dropped as is 100% innocent.

 

What is the best course of action to take... is there a claim against the person who lied to the police and most importantly CAN YOU CLEAR A FALSE ALLEGATION FROM YOUR CRB?

 

I have heard that the police HAVE to press for wasting police time for the CRB to be clean...i dont know how much truth is in that.

 

Please if you have any advice or can relate to this situation...your views will be invaluable.

 

Thanks

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

I've moved this thread to a more appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Can you clarify what it is that is on the CRB check that is causing the problem?

 

For there to have been a charge of rape, the CPS would have decided that there was sufficient evidence not only to warrant a charge, but also that there would be a reasonable prospect of success. However, you say that the charge was dropped for lack of evidence.

 

Could it be that it's a record of the arrest for a sexual/violent crime that's the problem? Although clearly a major problem, it's not as bad as being charged.

 

I suspect that there are ways for this to be resolved via the police - but that is likely to be a convoluted and lengthy process. It's also possible to sue the accuser for malicious falsehood.

 

I'd suggest that your friend contacts his MP in the first instance.

[SarEl]

I am afraid that the charge cannot be removed unless the Police / CPS win a case against the person who brought the claim. eCRB's (which are required to work with children, must contain all records held on Police databases, including charges or arrests were no charges were brought. If you think about it, that's logical and important - with many abusive people get arrested or chraged but cases may not go forward due to lack of evidence - and if someone was in the sort of position repeatedly, you don't want the first you know of it to be after they've done something for the twelfth time but the previous 11 cases were never brought!

 

However, it is not true that the schools had to let him go. What is on a CRB record is not a barrier - it is a choice for the employer. If he could prove that the charge was malicious then the schools were under no obligation to refuse him employment, and could have taken the full story into acccount.

[cerberusalert]

Anyone who has incorrect information about them on a CRB check is able to appeal to the CRB with nine out of 10 of these cases resolved within three weeks.

 

http://www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/contact_us/disputes/data_source_disputes.aspx

 

A complaint to the ICO may be in order too, after all they are processing incorrect data.

[SarEl]

Anyone who has incorrect information about them on a CRB check is able to appeal to the CRB with nine out of 10 of these cases resolved within three weeks.

 

http://www.crb.homeoffice.gov.uk/contact_us/disputes/data_source_disputes.aspx

 

A complaint to the ICO may be in order too, after all they are processing incorrect data.

 

Yes - but that is irrelevant since the information is correct - he was charged. So there is no incorrect information on the CRB. The problem is that the person who made this complaint is entitled to exactly the same protections under the law. She is innocent until proven guilty. Therefore the chrage was dropped due to insufficent evidence - this is not the same thing as innocent. There have been no false allegations brought unless there is a conviction on this basis. I know this appears unfair, but I would remind people that Ian Huntley also had no convictions before he murdered two children - previous allegations had been dropped due to insufficient evidence to prosecute, but these allegations would have shown up on an eCRB even so. There is a reason why eCRB's show allegations and charges, even when they are not prosecuted, and this is the reason why. If years in the law have shown me one thing, it is that there is no such thing as fair. It isn't fair that the OP's friend should have this on their eCRB if they haven't done anything, but it also isn't fair that abusers of people can get away with having no record when their victims may be unable to provide the level of evidence required in law and then go on to do it again and again and even be placed in positions of trust with chidren and vulnerable people. There is no "fair" - just the best of a bad job. The OP has it in their power to do something about this - they have been maliciously accused so the best thing to do is to sue and clear their record.

[jimmylesaint]

This annoys me intensely! Logic and common sense seem to be for the French only. Clearly if the person in question is innocent as he was in a pub with many witnesses and CCTV as described.

Can you not make a formal complaint to IPCC, can you not sue the Police for wrongful arrest(going rate of compensation is around£1000/hour of liberty lost.)

I understand SarEl "but that is irrelevant since the information is correct - he was charged" However he was incorrectly charged? You cannot go around destroying peoples entire lives on hearsay evidence. The malicious accusation from the person and the police misactions are both at fault in my view and both should be rigorously sued!

I am in favour of innocent until proved otherwise, it makes me wonder how he came to be charged before interviewed and it all cleared up with the evidence gathered?

I also agree the law is not fair, it does get fairer though the bigger your wallet and the better and more lawyers you can hire.

[Atlas01]

A debate i've had many a time and never come to a clear conclusion.

 

(from a representation side it's clearly wrong, as a parent i'd like anybody who goes near my kids to be ecrb checked and would be 100 times more comfortable with a worker with a clear record than one with rape as an accusation on it, if i had to represent your friend i'd be fine with it, if my daughters school told me they had fired him off because of it i'd spend about 0.1 milliseconds caring about his rights)

 

 

 

Looking at the constants

 

1. That allegation isn't going to go anywhere as it stands, challenging in it being removed as part of a natural justice within the crb procedures nationally pops the words urine and wind into my mind.

2. I think your mates only recourse is to appeal on the grounds that the allegation does not constitute a fair reason for dismissal (although letting someone go may not be the same without more info)

 

Where i see the problem is there is a clear difference between dropping charges due to insufficient evidence (to me that says we think he did it but cant prove it which is all an employer needs in law to dismiss) and being cleared of the offence, there have been many cases of the reporter being imprisoned for false rape allegations, why are the police not doing this with your friends reporter?

 

How you put it he was in the pub and therefore not physically able to commit the crime, i assume there's more to it and i'm guessing here but was the offence in the pub, did he find himself at the end of the morning after "i was drunk and he took advantage" etc (actually lets not go into it) he simply needs to clear his name.

 

Bottom line is the employer will always be uncomfortable with someone working 1-1 with children because if any person says "hey, that guy has was accused of rape" If i was him i'd be demanding the police show the allegation was lies by the reporter.

 

Unfortunately this is guilt by accusation and although morally wrong it's the way it is and it's not going to change anytime soon.

[papasmurf1cx]

CRBehave... I think you need to clarify a couple of things. You mentioned that "A month down the line the Police have dropped the case due to evidence, it didnt even make it too court" The terminology you use later ie " Charge" is the cause of the problem. Was your friend merely bailed on Police bail after the initial arrest? After the month was the Police bail cancelled and your friend completely exonerated because of the facts found out during the police investigation and therefore the allegation found to be falsely made?

 

If, as I suspect, this was a malicious allegation and there was plenty of evidence to show that it was totally made up, then I think your friend should make an allegation of "Perverting the course of Justice" against whoever made the allegation and any of the people that may have assisted. Not many of these cases have been made as the evidence of guilt is not straight forward, but if as you indicate that there is CCTV, alibi evidence and other witnesses then it may be possible to convict in this case. Bearing in mind the consequences this allegation has caused your friend then I think it is justified to consider a prosecution.

 

Rape victims suffer dreadfully and deserve the full support they get after such an attack. However to use the allegation of rape against an innocent person is equally bad and the victim deserves no less support. The full force of the law should be taken against the person who has made this allegation. It is clear that any conviction for Perverting the Course of Justice would be the start point to get the allegation expunged from the official records. I would go further and have a solicitor sue the maker of the false allegation for the losses he has occurred because of the false actions.

 

I do not advocate this action lightly as I think many allegations of rape are correctly made, the problem being that the evidence to support the allegation normally comes down to one word against the other. An outright 'stichup' is disgraceful and any woman resorting ot downright lies deserves what she gets.

[Mash It Up Harry]

Where does it say in the first post that the 'friend' was charged? The first post simply says he was arrested, bailed (presumably pending further investigations) only later to discover that the investigation was dropped due to inconsistancies in the accuser's statement.

 

There's a whole world of difference between simply being arrested and then bailed and being arrested and then charged.

[SarEl]

Sorry - you are correct - and not! It does not matter whether he was charged. The arrest is relevant intelligence and shows up on an eCRB

[Mash It Up Harry]

Agreed, the only reason I raised it was because some of the advice was being steered towards the OP's friend being charged - not that it makes a great deal of difference as the arrest will still show.

 

I recently interviewed a job applicant who had a similar incident show on his enhanced check, and like the OP he was ruled out of the investigation with another person being charged. What he managed to obtain was a letter from the investigaing officer explaining why he had been arrested & how he had been ruled out of the investigation. I know that this is incredibly rare & I'm guessing that the police officer had some sympathy for the arrestee, but if he is not able to get this removed, it might be worth an approach to the investigating officer to see if he would supply some sort of explanation (this would at least eliminate the 'no smoke without fire' type of conclusions that some prospective employers may make).

[SarEl]

True - because unfortunately there is "smoke without fire" as we all know. I am not huge fan of CRB checks for a whole variety of reaons, including the fact that police records are not as accurate as they ought to be. Unfortunately, I think it is a case of there being no "right answer". Like Atlas - I might deplore some of the wrongs it has created, but as a parent I think differently. Mind you, given my daughter was brought up "right" she doesn't need to ask for CRB checks. She was taught to kick them in the g....s, gouge their eyes out, and ask questions later. So no worries there!!!

[cerberusalert]

See; http://www.newlawjournal.co.uk/nlj/content/shadow-past

[MrBlack]

True - because unfortunately there is "smoke without fire" as we all know. I am not huge fan of CRB checks for a whole variety of reaons, including the fact that police records are not as accurate as they ought to be. Unfortunately, I think it is a case of there being no "right answer". Like Atlas - I might deplore some of the wrongs it has created, but as a parent I think differently. Mind you, given my daughter was brought up "right" she doesn't need to ask for CRB checks. She was taught to kick them in the g....s, gouge their eyes out, and ask questions later. So no worries there!!!

 

Glasses ?

 

(Being a spectacle wearing person myself, I am deeply concerned by this! )

[Sidewinder]

Amusing but....

 

[papasmurf1cx]

Just to reinforce what I said above

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1361529/Jailed-The-soldiers-cheating-wife-claimed-raped-cover-pregnancy-husband-Afghanistan.html

[jimmylesaint]

I'm not a fan of CRB checks because it is bureaucracy gone wild. If i was in the above innocent situation everyone and their dogs puppies would know about the injustice.

I was most perturbed when my Child minding wife had to have a CRB check and so did i as i'd be another adult living in the same house.At the time having spent a few years and still in the Mets finest. I was most perturbed that i HAD to have this CRB check(fair enough i didn't have to pay for it so i never kicked up a fuss) I think two lady constables were taken to court for "child minding" without a CRB check! That wacky council in North London Herts, tried to ban any mums and dads who weren't CRB checked to enter into the public/council play area!

I tell you bureaucracy gone mad, knee jerk reactions that makes all of us who work with kids, want to work with kids, GUILTY until proven otherwise. This really is sad in a society that assumes guilt rather than innocence. A society where effectively i can accuse my neighbour/teacher of my child etc of being a sex pest/rapist etc and they will be part burned. Have we not regressed some few hundred years?? Or am i just not getting it??Is it me?

Yes i know if something happened to my child or loved one i wouldn't be happy but i put things into perspective, we hear about the paedophiles and tragic murders by Ian Huntley, the kidnapping of kids etc which are all sensationalised in the media so it seems we are surrounded by sex fiends. In reality i think i have more of a chance to win the lottery twice in a row then it too happen to my kid/loved ones(touch wood).

And whilst i have gone completely off topic, i'm not a fan of the DNA database.

 

Yes if there is a person who

[honeybee13]

Ah, the haloed crusader, hello Jimmy.

 

My best, HB

[jimmylesaint]

HB how are you sweety. I'm growing in strength although often get that feeling that it is me and not every one else;)

Keep up the good work, just read the flattery you got in the UKPC thread.

[honeybee13]

Keep up the good work, just read the flattery you got in the UKPC thread.

 

I did? Must have missed that. Or was that the one where they said I was ageist?

 

HB x

[CRBehave]

Apologies for the belated reply.

 

Let me clear some things up

 

My Friend was not Charged, the CRB states they were arrested.

 

There was no chance of being drunk and not remembering, all of this happened within the evening of the pub, there was no going back to someones house, it was all contained, with witnesses and alabi's.

 

My Friend has contacted the Police, they have said because the accuser has mental problems it would be a waste of my to sue they said they can supply a cover letter for the CRB but the charge will remain........My Friend made contact with them without legal backing, im assuming with a solicitor he would have more sway.

 

Is there free legal advice available? I have been told that there may be a claim for breech of human rights.

 

Any views would be welcome.

 

Thanks

[papasmurf1cx]

Having mental problems does not mean they didn't know what they were doing. I say again, make an allegation to the police that she perverted the course of justice and get her arrested. If what you say is true, and I believe you, if she said absolutely nothing to the police there would be evidence to charge her, after all she was lucid enough to make the allegation, know what the allegation was and who did it!! Pay her back with the same evidence she threw at your friend.

 

Forget the compensation angle for the time being and sort out the crime first, then get a solicitor onto clearing the official record.

[CRBehave]

If the police made there view of what they want to do...eg. dont sue, cover letter with your CRB. what pressure would you need to put onto them to change there mind? MP? Solicitor?

[papasmurf1cx]

Suing is a civil matter ie monetary compensation. The Police have no sway over that........ they merely investigate Criminal allegations. They investigated the criminal allegation of rape arrested your friend, bailed him, cancelled that bail and no charges were brought. The rape allegation was investigated and found wanting. That does not mean that the mentally ill woman did not break the Criminal law when she made up the story and got your friend arrested. Pay her the compliment of being arrested and charged herself for making false allegations which have had serious consequences for your friend.

 

Once the police has investigated the perverting the course of justice allegation, a solicitor will be able to access that investigation evidence and present it to judges to get rid of the entry that causes so much trouble, but the police need to investigate it first.... so make the allegation. If the police do not investigate it, write to your MP and explain the facts and ask him/ her why such a serious allegation is not treated with the same level of seriousness as the original rape allegation. You are entitled to the same level of support from the police. Clear?