Re: Never Paint Again / All Seasons Wall Systems - Warranty Issue - and Data Protection Registration Issue

[lotus12]

Hi, we’re new to CAG and are looking for any advice to help sort the problems on our home.

 

The replacement of the render and coating with a paint product by Andura on our home was carried out by All Seasons Wall Systems Ltd in April 2008. Some minor problems were swiftly rectified the following year.

 

We raised our concerns of further problems in the spring of 2010 and in a letter dated 11th May 2010 they confirmed an estimated start date for the remedial work would be 6th July 2010.

 

All Seasons Wall Systems Ltd did not arrive at that date but after numerous phone calls they sent a letter dated 27th July 2010 stating that the remedial work discussed will be carried out as promptly as possible but you could not give an exact date at this time due to the adverse weather conditions but they would contact us in the near future.

 

We have had no satisfactory replies to our calls to their customer service number. We sent a letter on 7th December 2010 detailing some of the problems with the coating (including photographs) and requested they contact us but again no response.

 

Following a suggestion earlier in this thread we sent a letter by recorded delivery on 28th January 2011 again setting out our concerns and requested that contact us within seven days. The Post Office has confirmed the letter has been delivered but we have not been contacted by All Seasons Wall Systems Ltd.

 

We also sent a copy of the above letters and photographs by email to NeverPaintAgain for any help and assistance they could provide to resolve our issue. They have not made contact either.

 

The question is where do we go from here?

 

Trading Standards or ask one of All Seasons Wall Systems Ltd competitors to complete the repairs and pursue through the Small Claims Court.

 

Any suggestions?

[Surfer01]

Notify Trading Standards anyway and then also take advice from them and let us know.

[honeybee13]

Hello there and welcome to CAG. I'd be inclined to tell Trading Standards regardless. We've always found them helpful, but also the more complaints they receive about this company the better, I'd say.

 

My best, HB

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

Have moved your posts into your own thread.

[Guest ALL SEASONS WALL SYSTEMS]

F.A.O; LOTUS 12. RE ALL SEASONS WALL SYSTEMS LTD

All seasons wall systems ltd would like to reply to lotus 12 with the following;

We are sorry to read on this forum that you are dissatisfied with our service,

as we are a reputable Company with many satisfied customers.

As we do not no your identity, we would like to take the opportunity to assure

you if you can get in touch we will deal with this issue immediately.

You can contact us on telephone number 08000966768

We feel it important to point out that we try our upmost to keep in communication

with existing customers both by phone and post.

To the best of our knowledge and from our records, THE FEW existing customers

that require a service call for what ever reason, have been contacted and given a

date to rectify, if their is a claim to be made under the Guarantee.

We look forward to hearing from you to get this issue sorted.

Kind Regards

ALL SEASONS

[Conniff]

F.A.O; LOTUS 12. RE ALL SEASONS WALL SYSTEMS LTD

kind regards

ALL SEASONS

 

Just for your information, if you contact the administrator (or any of the site team) if you wish to respond to posts. You should do it this way as they like to confirm that you have the official capacity to speak on behalf of the company. Your username will then become green.

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks Conniff,I do think that Admin will take a look at things.

Essentially,it is very good to see ASWS here to try to offer resolution to our member.

But it should equally be made clear,that we will expect to see our member updating their thread here to report on any progress or hinderance whether it be positive or negative.

And additionally,we would not expect our member to have to agree to any confidentiality clauses or agreements in consideration of getting their complaints sorted.

Such action would be viewed as hostile and counter productive to any business seeking to argue they had best business practices.

[lotus12]

Yesterday I phoned All Seasons Wall Coating Ltd who were helpful in trying to explain the relationships between the various companies involved with the work on our house.

From this discussion, and I know this is appears odd, I can confirm that I did not have a contract with either neverpaintagain or All Seasons Wall Systems Ltd.

That said All Seasons Wall Systems Ltd have agreed to carry out the repairs to the coating, even though they believe they have no obligation, and we have arranged a meeting later this week.

[Surfer01]

So with whom is your contract.

Edited March 3, 2011 by HSBCrusher
please be careful when posting ;-)

[ScarletPimpernel]

This sort of confusion over with whom a customer has a contract seems to be a regular feature of cases involving Never Paint Again.

[lisag]

Very odd. Who did you pay then lotus12?

[lotus12]

Hi, I'm meeting All Seasons Wall Systems Limited on Friday and will let you know of any developments.

[alanfromderby]

I think it would help everyone if the NPA website clearly identified what involvement they have, and which company is actually carrying out the work. It is worth noting that ASWS only give the NPA website on their paperwork. It also seems from the above that neither company are involved in this contract. To me this is not a transparent way of doing business.

 

If NPA want us to back away from discussing this issue then clarify on your website which company does the work, who the contract is with, and what their direct contact details are - including registered office etc. For total transparency, include on your site a full set of terms and conditions for people to read before they sign up.

 

Finally, this has dragged on now for several weeks and we still have not seen that the repairs have been carried out. If NPA, ASWS, or whoever, wish to show that they are interested in customer care then get your heads together and sort out your procedures. Rather than slagging off our users, and moaning about people posting their views, just resolve your customer care problems. That will do far more for your reputation than moaning about bad publicity.

[ScarletPimpernel]

In case he's forgotten, I asked Guy Bell to clarify the not insignificant question of his apparent lack of registration with the Information Commissioner. He didn't reply, so whilst he's sorting out the problems raised by customers on CAG, perhaps he'd be kind enough to explain what's happening with his ICO registration.

[alanfromderby]

Yes you are right. I see that neither All Seasons Wall Systems, or Never Paint Again, appear on the Data Protection Register. So the Never Paint Again website is operating illegally, and unless All Seasons Wall Systems are using an ancient card index system to record everything then they are too. Well! Well! Who would have thought it?

[MARTIN3030]

My thoughts on all this,is that there are more twists and turns here than a Rock 'n Roll convention.

It reminds me of question time in the House of Commons.....the only difference being that at least when replied to there,at least half of those listening will believe the answers.

[stbrown]

Hi I have just joined CAG and am involved in the wall coating business.......

.......dissapointed that Guy Bell has not responded to the questions asked of him here

because this type of attitude does nothing to help our industry.

 

if anyone would like to check out All Seasons Wall Systems Ltd .....

....on web check at companies house they will see that they are about to be struck off

 

..........they set up All Seasons Wall Systems ( south ) Ltd in 2010......

.....Also All Seasons Roof Systems Ltd ...

.....at the same address..........is about to be struck off........

........they also set up...

....All Seasons Roof Systems ( south ) Ltd............seems a classic run for a year or to.....

......throw it up the wall.....

......ignore the complaints

 

........set up another company to avoid the guarantee.

 

So Guy on your website you state you have done thousands of properties.....

.......if you have used these guys to do the thousands of contracts.....

.......i think you will be getting a lot of problems in the future. better to look for another contractor...........FAST.

 

To Lisag and Lotus 12......

 

.......if you dont get anywhere with this try contacting Andura ......

.......because they should share some of the blame here

( after all you used one of there " APPROVED CONTRACTORS "...

...the MD there is Mr Danny Bayer.......

..........im sure he wont want this publicity.)

 

Regards all

[alanfromderby]

I notice that Andura was mentioned on MSE, but they do at least have their own website, and I did not see any immediate connection. Is there one, if so, what is it exactly?

[alanfromderby]

Just to put everyone's minds at rest about the above data protection issue.

 

I gather that All Seasons are dealing with their "administrative error", and I have been assured by Mr Bell that as NPA is not a limited company, and just a broker, he is "sorry to say" that he is "exempt from the ICO ruling". He also says that, "All info we receive is always treated in the highest of confidentiality".

 

I am sure that this will reassure everyone that he is complying with the law, and that a website which contains a form on which you enter your name, address, telephone number and type of property etc., that is then electronically processed, and presumably forwarded to another company, is exempt from the Data Protection Act, and has not been breaking the law for several years.

[MARTIN3030]

Ohh dear....will NPA be having a new meaning then ?

Never Post Again ?

[ScarletPimpernel]

I have been assured by Mr Bell that as NPA is not a limited company, and just a broker, he is "sorry to say" that he is "exempt from the ICO ruling". He also says that, "All info we receive is always treated in the highest of confidentiality".

 

I am sure that this will reassure everyone that he is complying with the law, and that a website which contains a form on which you enter your name, address, telephone number and type of property etc., that is then electronically processed, and presumably forwarded to another company, is exempt from the Data Protection Act, and has not been breaking the law for several years.

 

Tomorrow, then, I will let ICO know that they have been misleading everyone for several years by insisting that the law requires any business that processes data must be registered. I'll point them in Mr Bell's direction so that they can contact him if they are confused.

 

Edited to add:

 

To avoid any misunderstanding, the Information Commissioner says (here):

 

 

Q: Does the Data Protection Act apply to me?

 

This might seem an obvious question. However, the Act applies to a particular activity – processing personal data – rather than to particular people or organisations. So, if you “process personal data”, then you must comply with the Act and, in particular, you must handle the personal data in accordance with the data protection principles. Broadly, however, if you collect or hold information about an identifiable living individual, or if you use, disclose, retain or destroy that information, you are likely to be processing personal data. The scope of the Data Protection Act is therefore very wide as it applies to just about everything you might do with individuals’ personal details.

 

Q: How do I know whether the Data Protection Act applies to my business/organisation?

 

The Act will usually apply unless you are an individual holding personal information for your own domestic use, eg an address book.

 

 

 

Q: When is it a criminal offence to breach the Data Protection Act?

 

If a company or other corporation commits a criminal offence under the Act, any director, manager, secretary or similar officer or someone purporting to act in any such capacity is personally guilty of the offence, as well as the corporate body, if:

 

• the offence was committed with their consent or connivance; or
  
• the offence is attributable to neglect on their part.
  

In addition, where the affairs of a corporate body are managed by its members, any member who exercises the functions of management as if they were a director can also be guilty of the offence that results from their acts or omissions.

The criminal offences created by the Act include:

 

• unlawfully obtaining, disclosing, or procuring the disclosure of personal data;
  
• selling, or offering to sell, personal data which has been unlawfully obtained;
  
• processing personal data without notifying the Information Commissioner (and other offences related to notification);
  
• failing to comply with an enforcement notice or an information notice, or knowingly or recklessly making a false statement in compliance with an information notice;
  
• obstructing, or failing to give reasonable assistance in, the execution of a search warrant;
  
• requiring someone, for example during the recruitment process, to exercise their subject access rights to supply certain information (such as records of their criminal convictions), which the person wanting it would not otherwise be entitled to. This offence, known as “enforced subject access”, is not yet in force; and
  
• the unlawful disclosure of certain information by the Information Commissioner, his staff or agents.
  

 

I couldn't find anything about sole traders being exempt, but as always am happy to be corrected.

 

I wouldn't want anyone to think I was insinuating anything; I'm just quoting what ICO (and the law) says.

[alanfromderby]

http://www.ico.gov.uk/notify/self/question1.html

 

Let's work it through then:

 

Q1 - YES, you are obtaining the full name and contact details through your website.

Q2 - YES - it goes without saying that the data is sent to your computer.

Q3 - YES - it is your website, so you have control on what happens to the data.

Q4 - Possibly NO - but the list notes that it is not an exhaustive list. But to be fair, we will say NO.

Q5 - Clearly NO - your website is not just for your own family.

Q6 - Clearly NO - you are not compiling a public register.

Q7 - NO - you would not be in business if you were not aiming to make a profit.

Q8 - N/A

Q9 - Half way down page under the heading "Advertising, Marketing and Public Relations", paragraph 3 says, "If you are marketing goods and services for others, you will need to notify."

[LoisMcFee]

I notice that Andura was mentioned on MSE, but they do at least have their own website, and I did not see any immediate connection. Is there one, if so, what is it exactly?

 

Andura are the paint manufacturers, they only supply to "authorised dealers" not the general public. Firms such as All seasons then purchase the product and using their own contractors "do the work" It seems with NPA doing the marketing. I don't think the Andura product is being called into question but the marketing and application problems are not helping their brand.

 

On another completely separate issue, the NPA website now has Visa/Mastercard logos indicating that NPA has a merchant account and can take credit card payments. If NPA only advertise All Seasons etc and do not have customers why are they showing these logos ? I'm pretty certain that Visa and Mastercard have draconion rules on the usage of their logos, if All Seasons can take credit card payments then the logos should be on their site and not the NPA site.

[alanfromderby]

Thanks LoisMcFee, and welcome to CAG, that is a very helpful first post.

[Surfer01]

There seems to be a post from a TerryD62 missing. What is happening? Is CAG being censured?