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    • Thanks for all responses I’ve been looking at other threads and now feel totally confused as I’m scared of actually having to go to court as I have no idea how to defend this! Torn between just setting up a payment plan and not wanting them to win! 
    • Thanks so much!    1. on planning permission my WS says: The signs did not have planning permission under the Town and County planning.  I have an email stating there was no planning permission from the council. The signs do not fall under deemed consent.  * Their WS says they do not need planning permission by being an approved operator of the trade association, and it is not for the  county court to determine planning permission.   2. Excel are trying to say I’m dishonest.  Their WS states my defence appears to be cut and pasted from websites relating to parking whose aim is to assist motorists on contesting PCN's. Large portions are non sensical and irrelevant to the claim   This is Unacceptable as the defendant has signed a statement of truth whilst clearly not being the defendants knowledge    Q Any comments?      Their WS states that I alleged I received no correspondence, and the onus is on the driver to update DVLA. I did update DVLA, but I moved numerous times due to domestic abuse. This was in my set aside and part of why it was granted. Evidence was provided at that time. Q Is this going to come up again?    *Also they question how I would be able to comment on the signs if I’m not the driver of the vehicle, as she would not have first hand knowledge, therefore it is the claimants position that she is being disingenuous.    I state that photos will be provided in my bundle. I actually haven’t submitted any but I do also know somebody who had PCN from the same carpark,   He gave me all his evidence etc, Mr Booth and he won his case. I linked to the parking pranksters article on it.  Q So is it ok to use such websites and to use photos from someone else?    Thanks    I put Excel to strict proof that any contract can exist  *Their WS states it falls foul of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999(UTCCR 1999). Claims the regulations don't apply   This is the link to Mr Booth case who won on the signage  Also the PCN is completely blurred and illegible in their WS evidence  Is this another point?    I have his his email regarding planning consent, Mr Booth had an email from the town planning officer stating that in his opinion the signage would require planning consent     http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/01/excel-parking-v-booth.html?m=1   He had a number of lines of defence, but focussed on the poor signage in the car park. Excel Parking used BW Legal who hired a local solicitor to turn up. She wasn't that well prepared and had not bothered to bring printed copies of the case. When the Judge asked her to refer to defence photographs provided of poor signage she used her phone. Mr Booth admitted that he never bought a ticket - but this was because he never saw the signage signage in the first place and so no contract was entered into. Excel provided pictures of the signage, date stamped for August 2015, but the event was in March 2015. They also provided at the last minute a witness statement from the landowner stating he gave authority, date stamped September 2015. The PCN they sent in their Witness statement was a photocopy and completely blurred and illegible. Mr Booth's arguments were that; 1. Poor signage - there were "staff only" parking signs on the building wall next to where he parked - he questioned the claimant's right to sue someone parked against these bays 2. He questioned their authority to act on behalf of the landlord 3. He questioned whether the signage had planning consent. The Judge followed this through with Excel's representative: "Did they have a contract which said these bays were exempt or not exempt from Excel issuing tickets on the vehicles parked? As Excel had not bothered to supply a copy of the actual contract, the solicitor could not confirm either way. Regarding. planning consent, Mr Booth had an email from the town planning officer stating that in his opinion the signage would require planning consent, and that there was no planning application on file. The judge said if Mr Booth had only brought this point up he may have found differently. The judge clearly had doubts about the signs where any reasonable person would think the same and that the "staff only" signs would not lead them to think there was a requirement to buy a ticket. He took a recess for 10 mins then made his judgment. Claim refused - the parking signs cause confusion , and there was prof there was a contract which allowed the charges claimed. He went on to state that he was staggered that serial claims companies like Excel do not take a photo of the signs at the time of erection. Why do they wait until litigation to take photos. There was no evidence that the signs were there at all on the date.    
    • Not anymore now that the right have manipulated voters into voting for a conservative dictatorship.   All of what you've said is just another worrying aspect of what the future holds 
    • Just like all the rubbish spouted over the past 4 years, would, would, would.  What you really mean is COULD.    
    • You're ignoring the most difficult issue in a trade agreement. It's not the tariffs or the lack of them  which is the tough part to reslove but the regulatory standards of the goods to be imported & exported that needs to be decided.   For example the EU banned the import of chlorine washed chicken since 1997 which of course hurts the US, and who are going to be very keen to include it in any new agreement with the UK and will use it to barter prospective concessions in exchange . As a nation we're going to first have to decided whether that is acceptable or not and that alone will be difficult enough to resolve. And that's just one product.   This has all the makings of a category 5 $h1t storm that will last an eternity. 
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fairfight2011

Welcome Finance : Hello Caggers & here goes another WCF rant!

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Hi this is my first ever post - I've spent the last few hours reading a sample of the various posts, can't believe WCF has 47 pages of separate threads!

 

Anyhow, I'm here for the same reason as so many of you - Welcome Car Finance have totally stitched me up...I've been paying off my overpriced second hand car for two years, thought I was close to the VT point but they moved the goal posts...

 

I don't have access to a scanner but I can copy and paste from my letters to them if need be.

 

I've just drafted the rant below - haven't sent it yet as I know I need to whittle it down and simplify it but I would welcome your opinions and thoughts while I work on it.

 

Thanks in advance and I hope between us we can bring down the remains of this lingering malingering excuse for a company.

 

Cheers : )

 

Dear *****

Please pass this letter to the complaints and compliance team as discussed during our conversation today (22/02/2011)

 

I have been informed by your colleague at the Bracknell branch of WCF that I opted to have something called GARDX when I started my credit agreement.

 

I can assure you most reservedly I did not consent to any such treatment, and as it was explained I would have incurred a one-off payment of £299 for what I now understand to be some kind of protective paint coating, I am certain I would recall such an expense.

 

Given that I collected the car from the Feltham showroom on the same day as signing the agreement it is implausible that there would have been time to apply any such treatment to the car exterior.

 

The car was second hand and had 25,500 miles on the clock, several trims were missing, there were scuffed bumpers, a broken wing mirror, a temperamental gearbox and defective upholstery - and yet still deemed worthy of over £10,000 including interest. I doubt any sane person would have paid extra to have the paintwork protected. When I contacted the after-sales department (now closed) I had a real struggle to get any of these points addressed. WCF eventually conceded to have one wheel trim and one vent re-fitted, these repairs were carried out badly and both new parts fell off the car within a week of being fitted.

 

There is absolutely no mention of the additional cost for GardX on any of my paperwork from you, and if it is being included in the outstanding figure I would ask that it be immediately removed as I am paying this off at a very high interest rate.

 

It strikes me as odd that there is no paperwork available in relation to any of the safety/mechanical checks carried out prior to my purchase of the car. The showroom (now closed) at Feltham sported massive posters advertising the fact that every vehicle had a 160+ Point inspection carried out on it. Given the amount of expensive repair work and general maintenance expenditure the car has incurred from the early days of the agreement to the present day, I find this hard to believe. Even more so as there is absolutely no written documentation to back this up.

 

I also wish to complain about the fact that I have now been told it is not possible to provide me with separate settlement figures for my hire purchase agreement and my insurance finance agreement. I was only aware of this possibility on receipt of my annual statement in January, where it specifically states that this option is open to me. I have requested these figures in writing as specified on the statement. I have also faxed a copy of this statement to ***** who was unaware of this apparently new option for customers.

 

In my recent conversations with ***** , it has become very difficult to communicate without arousing her anger and obvious annoyance. I suggest she undertakes additional training to combat these difficulties. I was not being rude or unreasonable - simply asking for clarification of what was being asked of me, as she had made two contradictory statements. (“Just write to us and tell us you weren’t aware you don’t have GardX”/…“you weren’t aware you had GardX”) Her telephone manner is curt and dismissive, and she interprets my speaking calmly and slowly as patronising and has repeatedly refused to answer questions and accused me of being rude to her.

 

Just to clarify again I am aware that I do NOT have GardX!

 

It also dawned on me after our conversation that this topic has been raised on Watchdog - if I have indeed been charged for this non existent paint treatment you can be very sure that the Consumer Action Group and Trading Standards will hear from me!

 

I think the FSA would also be interested in the differences between the sums stated on the original credit agreement and the sums on the recent statement. There is also a discrepancy between the sum stated on the credit agreement as the point at which I may voluntarily terminate and the sums disclosed in your recent correspondence on the subject. I would appreciate a clear summary of total overall costs and payments received, inclusive of interest so I can compare this to my own records.

 

I must insist that all future correspondence is in writing - it is not fair to demand that I write to you and simply refuse to write back. The tendency to return my written correspondence by calling me during my hours of work in the knowledge that you will speak to the answer phone is very poor practice.

 

(In fact ***** actually criticised me for not taking her call - I work in a ***** , it is not appropriate to stop ***** to discuss personal financial arrangements and I have made it clear exactly when I will be able to take calls; during lunch breaks and after 3pm on Fridays.)

 

I have incurred unquantifiable additional costs by attempting to resolve these issues by telephone and have neither the time nor inclination to pursue this method of communication any further.

 

I have made every exorbitant payment on time, and even increased my monthly instalments in order to settle this agreement more expediently. I have received numerous calls over the last two years inviting me to make early settlement.

 

I have been informed previously that it is company policy not to write letters, and that the company policy itself is not written down or available to read. Having raised this point with the Citizens Advice Bureau they assured me such a policy is a total nonsense. Please act in a professional manner and respond in writing within 28 days. Thank-you for your time and courtesy.

 

 

P.S. Having just undertaken some research on the internet I see that WCF have a track record of selling GardX inclusively with the car purchase price. I see on the credit agreement there is “inc GX” noted beside the make and model of the car. Therefore I am being charged interest on it, contrary to what I was told this afternoon. Secondly I was not informed or given the option on this at any point, nor was any documentation to prove the GARDX treatment was ever applied to my car - if it had been treated it would require renewal for the guarantee to be valid.

 

Finally, the only reason GardX came to light at all was as a consequence of my request for separate settlement figures, ***** listed GardX as a type of insurance and said I could not have an insurance finance settlement as I did not have “all the insurances”. Could you please clarify whether GardX is

A) optional car paintwork treatment

B) type of insurance

C) included in purchase price of vehicle

D) a one-off additional cost.

 

Or is it the cleaning kit the sales representative thrust into my hand after I signed the agreement and collected the car, saying they were giveaways taking up space in the back room?

 

If so you can have it back and I’ll have £299 plus interest for the last 2 years deducted from my outstanding balance please!

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Hi fair

 

Welcome to CAG

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.


Welcome to Consumer Action Group

 

'Challenges are what makes life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful.'

Joshua J. Marine

 

1) CLAIM BACK ALL PENALTY CHARGES CLICK HERE

2) CLAIM BACK ALL MIS-SOLD PPI CLICK HERE

3) COMPOUNDED CONTRACTUAL INTEREST CLICK HERE

4) REQUEST CCA FROM CREDITOR CLICK HERE

5) OFT- UNENFORCEABLE AGREEMENTS CLICK HERE

6) CAREY V HSBC (2009) CLICK HERE

7) DON'T BE BULLIED BY CREDITORS / DCA's CLICK HERE

8) IN DEBT DON'T PANIC CLICK HERE

9) FULL AND FINAL SETTLEMENT CLICK HERE

10) SALE OF GOODS ACT-EDUCATE YOUR RETAILER CLICK HERE

11) DISTANCE SELLING-EDUCATE YOR RETAILERCLICK HERE

12) SOGA SUMMARY CLICK HERE

13) WHICH? TEMPLATES [/url]CLICK HERE

14) DOES YOU BANK TREAT YOU FAIRLY BCOBSCLICK HERE

15) EVERYTHING HOUSING CLICK HERE

16) UTILITY BACKBILLING CLICK HERE

17) OFGEM - COMPLAINTSCLICK HERE

18) OFCOM - COMPLAINTS CLICK HERE

DON'T GIVE UP, THIS SITE WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH GUIDANCE AND EMPOWERMENT

 

Don't forget to donate to this site

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers

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Here's the VT letter I sent back in November:

 

Thursday 18 November 2010

RE: HP AGREEMENT No.

Dear WCF,

I am writing to establish my current position with regard to the above HP agreement.

I have been making regular payments of £212.57 since March 2009 and recently increased the payment to £220 pcm.

By my estimations I have now repaid £4683.97 and I understand I have to pay 50% of the total sum in order to terminate the agreement voluntarily. According to my copy of the original agreement this sum would be £5007, so I am within 2 months of meeting this point.

Before making a decision, I would like to clarify what other costs I might incur if I do voluntarily terminate, and where/when I would have to deliver the vehicle to you. I would also like to know, if there was further liability that it would be acceptable to pay this in monthly instalments if the costs were significant.

I have also previously requested a copy of the service record and checks carried out by WCF prior to entering this agreement with you, if it is possible to see this information I would be very grateful.

I have had to have various work carried out on the vehicle as there were cosmetic and mechanical issues with it at the time of purchase. It was not possible to reconcile these problems with the original dealership as they closed down soon after I completed the purchase.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Thanks & best wishes,

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i need to see the agreement

deleate personal info and google photobucket to post

if the guardex has been included in the amount of credit (the car) and not in its own colum (amount of credit) then they are in trouble

 

contact guardex with the registration number to see if welcome registered the treatment with them and did you have any policy document (insurance) to say this guardex was applied

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They responded to this (with a call) and said they could not/would not answer any of my questions but had passed on my request to the VT department - I then got a bill through saying I owed just short of £1000. (rather than under £400) and this didn't include anything for "wear and tear" which would be assessed after it was collected. I then had a letter from someone wanting to collect the car immediately - I postponed the collection and have since made another 3 payments of 220 - 4th goes out on 25th (Friday)

Edited by fairfight2011

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ooh hello postggj! - sadly I don't have a scanner but I can confirm the GX is included in the amount of credit. It says car make/model, vauxhall corsa inc GX then the cost. It is not itemised separately.

 

I will contact Gardex and see if they have any record as you suggest, thank you so much for your input! :)

Edited by fairfight2011

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Just spoken to GardX - no record of my car being treated....

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has the guardex got its own perscribed terms like ppi

 

amount of credit

amount of payments (months)

interest rate

 

when did you sign the agreement (year)

 

do you have a document called statement of price

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HI - there is absolutely no mention of GardX - other than the 'inc GX' in small print beside the make and model of the vehicle on the first page of the CCA

 

The interest rate is 19.10% over the term and there is also mention of 10% APR

 

The agreement was signed in January 2009

 

I have a statement of price but it only mentions the shortfall extra insurance, I don't have PPI or Mechanical Breakdown - they made me take these out to start with and I had to return a week later to have them cancelled - they wouldn't let me have the car unless I took all three insurances.

 

48 payments @ 212.57 per month (I increased this in October last year to £220 voluntarily.)

 

There was no mention of GardX at the point of sale.

 

I may be able to access a scanner at work later today, going on lunch now, will bring all docs back in with me.

 

Thanks again! :)

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Hi again - I have now scanned all the documents, but I can't put the photobucket links on here as I haven't made enough posts yet... will have to go and stick my oar in a few other threads and try again later! Tried msging you direct postggj but your box is full - I can imagine you must be in demand!! Thanks again, hope to catch up soon :)

 

(On PhotoBucket I am ripley1977 if anyone wants a peek...)

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HI - there is absolutely no mention of GardX - other than the 'inc GX' in small print beside the make and model of the vehicle on the first page of the CCA

 

 

I have a statement of price but it only mentions the shortfall extra insurance,

I may be able to access a scanner at work later today, going on lunch now, will bring all docs back in with me.

 

 

 

IS THEIRE ANY MENTION OF THE GUARDEX ON THE STATEMENT OF PRICE

 

DO YOU HAVE AN INVOICE FROM THE GARAGE ON THE COST OF THE CAR MINUS THE GUARDEX PRICE

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Hi Post...to both of your questions the answer is no...literally the ONLY place it mentions Gardx is 'inc GX', in the Goods column of the Credit agreement. I only spotted it all because it was mentioned here on another thread.

 

It is not mentioned on the statement of price.

 

I don't have an invoice from the garage - all I have is the statement of price, the welcome to welcome letter and a credit agreement.

 

Nowhere is GardX mentioned and it only came to light yesterday when I called to enquire again about the possibility of separate settlement figures for the insurance finance ("Shortfall Extra") and the HP finance.

 

Is there another way I can give you the links to the scans I've uploaded?

 

Thanks again for your time,

 

fairfight2011 :)

 

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Hi, I had the same problem with Welcome regarding the GARDX insurance it took me nearly 18 months to sort out (with other matters) with the FOS. They finally as a goodwill gesture took off the £299 after a long battle.

I finally VT'd the car in August. Do check to see if you had been miss-sold their insurances.

 

JJ

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Thanks JJ - I can't get any sense out of them at the moment - the rep I spoke to on Tuesday said it was a one off fee I made at the point of sale (nonsense - If I'd had a spare 300 quid I would have added it with my 400 qud deposit and bought a half decent second hand car out of local rag in the first place!)

 

The only insurance I knowingly took out and am paying for according to my paperwork is the 'shortfall extra'. should I be escalating this to FOS now or OFT/FSA - Welcome said I have to write to them and say I didn't know I had Gardx....(even Gardx didn't know I had Gardx...!)

 

What a total con. How people can work there and do this to people every day without batting an eyelid is beyond my comprehension. Are there any rules and regs out there I can quote at them in my letter? (I won't be sending the epic rant from the first post on this thread, just had to get it all out of my system!)

 

By the way how did it go when you VT'd - did they come up with extra charges? And were you charged a collection fee?

 

Cheers again for your message :)

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Hi my VT went ok, they said I owed them £5.85 and even got their 'high risk department ' on to me before I proved that I owed them nothing. My VT letter was sent end of August and the car was collected mid September.

 

Another thing for you, the GARDX is also invalid unless it is renewed every year (it is in the terms and conditions on the GARDX paperwork, if you got any).So this might help you complaint a little more.

 

Before you escalate your complaint to the FOS, Welcome have to have written you a final response letter (which can take up to 8 weeks).

 

Thanks

 

JJ

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Also forgot to say, a collection charge is against the Consumer Credit Act. If you VT a car you can return the car up to the distance from where you brought the car. So if you live 50 miles from where you brought it the maximum Welcome can ask you to deliver would be 50 miles. Welcome didn't charge me for collection.

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Wow, loads more useful info - thanks! The showroom I bought the car from is now standing empty - the address I write to is about 6 miles from my house but the agent they employ to carry out the collection was somewhere up north I think, will have another look at their letter.

 

As for the GardX - I have no warranty paperwork of any kind, I literally just spotted the 'inc GX' on the Credit agreement after the rep mentioned it when I tried to get the separate settlement figures they offered in my recent statement. ( The figures which I apparently cannot have "because you have GardX")

 

So, I'm getting a bit befuddled now - I want them to take the charge for GardX off my account (plus interest) and then VT - need to do my sums but I'm fairly sure I've already paid 50% of the HP, so should only be liable for the remaining Gap insurance and whatever they decide I owe for wear and tear.

 

Thanks again, I'm off to bed, perchance to not dream about unscrupulous car dealers....:)

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Just read your op again, was the GARDX anywhere on the agreement or did you find out through your phone call or statement. My complaint started when I got my statement and they had added an extra£299 to the balance. i.e the agreement should of been £12500 but on my first statement they had charged £12800.

If they are saying that you would still be liable for the GAP insurance and the GARDX insurance ? IMO they must have to show you paperwork with your signature on otherwise they could just add any amount.

 

When you took out the agreement what deposit trade in did you give. The VT amount you are liable is 50% of the agreement (excluding the insurances) minus the deposit you paid.

 

It sounds like the same company would be collecting the car,this is there head office. My car was collected and taken to Wimbledon, I see your in Surrey as well so this would probably where your car would end up.

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Thanks JJ - I'm away from home today and have for once left the folder containing all the offending documents at home. (I have been carting around everywhere lately!) I scanned everything and uploaded it to photobucket but haven't done enough posts on here to be allowed to add links yet - I think I'm getting close though!

 

I can confirm that I only found out about GardX after trying to get the separate settlement figures (for insurance finance/HP finance) which was offered via their January statement. I sent the request in writing as their letter said I must, then got a call asking me to clarify my request, I explained that it was on the statement they had just sent me which they then asked me to fax to them! (This is a letter issued from them in the first place!) Then there was another week or so delay, and then the call last week that inspired me to finally post on here....("You can't have separate settlement figures because you have GardX" "I have what?" "GardX" etc etc)

 

I was not asked about GardX at the point of sale, and the recent call confirmed it would have been a one-off charge. Couldn't find any mention of it on any of my agreement paperwork and then having read another post on here I saw someone refer to the 'inc GX' in the make/model box of the first page of the CCA.

 

I also noticed there were differences between amounts outstanding on different documents, and in some cases my £400 deposit seems to have vanished too - To be honest I find it too confusing trying to work out the actual price because of the 2 rates of interest. 19.10 APR & 10 % Flat rate...eh? Does that mean 29.10%? I was naive perhaps to think that the numbers quoted on the CCA actually represented what I would owe? Or as now appears more likely, they've slapped the extra £299 on....(with interest as it's tied into the cost of the goods.)

 

I've also confirmed with GardX that the car was not logged with them as having had the paint treatment in the first place.

 

There's more too...a friend observed that the missing trims (on the front) are indicative of the car being in an accident prior to my buying it - I did a VIN check yesterday to see if I could find any history on it and the VIN is invalid - am now waiting for Vauxhall to get back to me and see if the VIN is accurate or not.

 

I have yet to write to WCF themselves, thought I'd try and get all my ducks in a row first. I know all they will do is leave messages on my voicemail asking me to call back and then they're out of the office when I do.

 

Is it right that they can just refuse to respond in writing? especially when they insist every query I have is written down???

 

Anyone got any advice on what my letter should say/not say based on the epic tale so far??

 

:) thanks again

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Hi, I am in the same boat as most of you. I took a car on HP with Welcom in august 2007. I defaulted on the payments in 2009. I told them to come and take the car as I could not afford it. £2000 or so has been paid off, but 6000 remains to be paid. I have not driven the car in over a year now, and I have heard nothing whatsoever from welcom or any debt companies. What the hell is going on and what do I do???? Please help!!!

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Hi again - latest installment on my GARDX dispute with WCF - I sent off a formal complaint (edited highlights of my initial epic blurb on here!) and have just had a response; my complaint is upheld as they can see I was charged for Gardx although the car was never treated with it. This was apparently due to an administration error. They say it was refunded in May 2009 (agreement taken out January 2009) although I've never seen any proof of either a charge or a refund! This is going to be posted out (believe it when I see it!)

 

All this only came about because they offered me the chance to settle my finance and insurances separately, then said I couldn't settle the insurance because I've got Gardx...now they're saying I still can't settle my insurance early because I didn't take out all of them, only the shortfall insurance.

 

I want to escalate the complaint to the FOS but will hold off until they send out the paperwork, which should show a 299 refund - although I would have been charged interest on that too so that might explain the difference between the original sum owed and the amount they are now asking for.

 

The car itself is still working - just, I took it to a manufacturer's service garage and was told that it will never be 100% - it's just a lemon, a very very expensive lemon!

 

grrrrr...

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Hi, sounds like they are trying to cover their ar$e, you will be able to check their figures against your last statement to see if they have taken it off.

They tried saying this with mine by adding the £299 then taking it away. Did like you firt letter advising training for one of the phone monkeys.

 

JJ

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lol cheers JJ - I took that bit out of the latest letter, but after calling them yesterday and said monkey's rude phone manner made me want to put it back in - she just says 'hello' really impatiently - I always have to ask if it's WCF as it sounds like I've called someone's house in the middle of the night...will update you when (if) I get the paperwork :)

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