Purchased BMW but it has outstanding finance :(

[Footy Lad]

Hi all

 

I purchased a used BMW from a local used car forecourt in October 2010. I p/x'd an Audi and paid the remainder in cash. In January the vehicle was clamped by a baliff for outstanding parking fines commited by the previous owner. The baliff released the clamp after i showed him my proof of ownership, V5 and insurance. However, as i was about to drive away, he shouted out, 'the car has come up as wanted for outstanding finance'. I drove away thinking what a load of rubbish! But when i got home i thought, let me conduct a full RAC HPI check, which i did and to my surprise, the vehicle does have outstanding finance.

 

When i purchased the vehicle, i bought it in good faith from a car forecourt not expecting the vehicle to have any dodgy story behind it. I did conduct a HPI at the time, however, it was a text you back service which revealed limited data, those £4.99 checks. Since finding out the background of the vehicle via the latter conducted RAC HPI check, i have tried to contact the car forecourt only to find they have ceased to trade. The chap who was the trader is no where to be seen. The site is empty. I contacted the finance company, 'Blackhorse' and they insist the vehicle belongs to them. Blackhorse have sent me a questionnaire to complete but i am very afraid of the fact that they now know my details, my address and will come and recover the vehicle.

 

This has left me very depressed. Will i lose this vehicle and the money i paid for it?? Do i have any grounds as to claim the vehicle as i cant claim from a trader that no longer trades or can be located? Do these questionnaires actually make any difference or are they a ploy to extract my details for the point of recovery for the finance company?

 

Somebody please help.

 

Thank you for your time

[rebel11]

Hi Foo

 

Welcome to CAG

The guys will advise as soon as they are available.

[Surfer01]

Was the trader a limited company or sole trader?

[Footy Lad]

The receipt has the traders trading name which i have checked on the companies house website and it is on the database so i would say its a limited company. Does the fact of the trader being limited or sole bare a major difference to the situation?

[Guest repo threat]

1st obvious question seeing as Black Horse register an interest in a vehicle when it is not a Hire Purchase Agreement.

 

Have you established that the vehicle is the subject of a Hire Purchase Agreement ?

[Footy Lad]

1st obvious question seeing as Black Horse register an interest in a vehicle when it is not a Hire Purchase Agreement.

 

Have you established that the vehicle is the subject of a Hire Purchase Agreement ?

 

After conducting the HPI check via RAC I telephoned Blackhorse using the finance reference obtained from the HPI and Blackhorse stated they are interested in the vehicle as it has outstanding finance. That's as far as I've got with Blackhorse.

[Guest repo threat]

S27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964 (now s22 of schedule 4 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974) deals with this thorny issue

[Guest repo threat]

Please note that Black Horse are usually arrogant and ignorant. You should demand before you go any further that they produce to you evidence that they have a financial interest in the vehicle. i.e a copy of the purchase invoice plus a copy of the Hire Purchase or Credit Agreement and written confirmation as to how much the original Hirer has paid under the agreement including any advance payment (deposit). They may hide behind confidentiality, but to be honest, they can delete the Hirers name and address and of course the hirers name and address is on the V5. is there any indication that the registered keeper prior to the dealer is a private individual or a limited company ?

[Guest repo threat]

It is almost impossible to develop "good title" on a vehicle in normal circumstances. The general rule of nemo dat says that one cannot give what he does not have. A person cannot transfer a title to another person if he never had one to start with.

 

S22 is the exception. So when the vehicle was bought by the dealer "in good faith" and he then resold it, good title was obtained by the private buyer and thefinance company cannot take it back from them. The private buyer is classed as the first "innocent purchaser".

Unfortunately the terms affords the dealer no such privilege - see subsection 3 below:

(1) This section applies where a motor vehicle has been bailed or (in Scotland) hired under a hire-purchase agreement, or has been agreed to be sold under a conditional sale agreement, and, before the property in the vehicle has become vested in the debtor, he disposes of the vehicle to another person.
(2) Where the disposition referred to in subsection (1) above is to a private purchaser, and he is a purchaser of the motor vehicle in good faith, without notice of the hire-purchase or conditional sale agreement (the "relevant agreement") that disposition shall have effect as if the creditor's title to the vehicle has been vested in the debtor immediately before that disposition.
(3) Where the person to whom the disposition referred to in subsection (1) above is made (the "original purchaser") is a trade or finance purchaser, then if the person who is the first private purchaser of the motor vehicle after that disposition (the "first private purchaser") is a purchaser of the vehicle in good faith without notice of the relevant agreement, the disposition of the vehicle to the first private purchaser shall have effect as if the title of the creditor to the vehicle had been vested in the debtor immediately before he disposed of it to the original purchaser.

[Footy Lad]

Thanks Repo Threat, i'm learning from your advice and information, most appreciated.

 

The name on the V5 as the previous keeper is a private individual and i am the new/current keeper. I've noticed the address given for the previous keeper on the first page of the V5 which is in my name states the previous keepers name but address as unknown.

 

Im thinking of seeking legal advice but as of yet i think i will request the full details of the agreement. Should i mention S27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964 (now s22 of schedule 4 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974) ?

 

I thought filling out the questionnaire was a good sign, as so far Blackhorse have actually been polite. However, im very septicle and expect their tone to change.

 

Im afraid the car will be taken away from my premises therefore i think i'll lock it away somewhere until things can get sorted. However, at the moment im not very optimistic.

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

Fill in the questionnaire. BH are not thugs and I doubt they will look to snatch the vehicle whilst their investigation is under way. In fact, by not filling in the questionnaire they are likely to think you have something to hide which might increase the chance of a snatch. The key here is what type of finance agreement theirs is. If it is hire purchase or conditional sale you may well be ok. If it is hire or lease you are in trouble. As stated above, they might be reluctant to let you see a copy of it for data protection reasons (quite rightly) but they can always black out their customer's details.

[Footy Lad]

The recent full RAC HPI states the agreement type as 'Hire Purchase'. I have filled out the questionnaire which is straight forward and sent it back to BH, so currently im awaiting BH's response. Fingers crossed and everything else that i shall receive a response in my favour of course.

[Footy Lad]

Hi all

 

Today i received a response from Black Horse Finance. They state they will remove their interest from the Hire Purchase Information Register.

 

So thats great news for me. Especially so as the issue has been resolved in a very steadfast manner.

 

Thank you all for your help and assistance.

[Guest repo threat]

nice result !

[bqehaja]

Hi all

 

Today i received a response from Black Horse Finance. They state they will remove their interest from the Hire Purchase Information Register.

 

So thats great news for me. Especially so as the issue has been resolved in a very steadfast manner.

 

Thank you all for your help and assistance.

 

Hello Footy Lady

Did you tell BH you had done HP finance check with RAC when you filled the questionaire? Iam in same sitatuation now!