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Suspected fraudulent personal injury claim


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Ahhh! This is the only bit that could have been in the 3rd party's favour. If he had argued that upon seeing your car it brought on a mild attack of epilepsy I would have believed him!!!! :lol:

 

Ha ha!! I know - I did say that when I ordered it - and I hoped that none of my students had epilepsy or a weak heart!!!

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If you look at the Testo roundabout further up the A19 near Boldon, you will see similar markings where there are 4 lanes available. I can assure you if he attempted to take the Boldon exit from lane 4, it would be suicidal 99% of the time.

Edited by crem
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If you look at the Testo roundabout further up the A19 near Boldon, you will see similar markings where there are 4 lanes available. I can assure you if he attempted to take the Boldon exit from lane 4, it would be suisidal 99% of the time.

 

Thanks for that and I appreciate you taking time out to look into this for me. My tests routes don't go that far up, but I still can use it as an example. Are you in the North East yourself?

If you do know of any other test r/a's with road markings exactly like my 'incident' r/a please forward them on - I feel I may need as much information as I can get to assist me in this battle!!

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Thanks for that and I appreciate you taking time out to look into this for me. My tests routes don't go that far up, but I still can use it as an example. Are you in the North East yourself?

If you do know of any other test r/a's with road markings exactly like my 'incident' r/a please forward them on - I feel I may need as much information as I can get to assist me in this battle!!

 

There are any number of roundabouts laid out like the one in question. In your area you could look at the big roundabout at the Eston end of the parkway A174. When approaching the roundabout it is laid out in 3 lanes.

Left = Left for Eston and Straight on for Lackenby.

Middle = Straight on for Lackenby and Right for Redcar

Right = Right for Redcar

 

For Redcar I would use the middle lane to enter the roundabout, this puts you into the middle lane as you as the Eston turn off and give you the option of leaving at Lackenby also. The left lane then "disappears" into the Lackenby exit leaving you automatically in the left lane to continue round towards Redcar. If someone tried to exit to Lackenby from the 3rd lane that would be totally wrong and contrary to the road marking exactly as in your accident example.

 

You could look on google earth yourself (rather than having to drive around the country looking for examples) as the "zoom" in google is good enough to see lane markings on the roundabouts to make your logical deductions as to which lane to select and when to change lanes within the roundabout.

 

Try looking near Sunderland, which is where I work, at the A19/A690 roundabout, the next one up is the A19/A183 roundabout, then up again to the A19/A1231. These all have multiple lanes that would require lane choices like you took to turn right and not expect a car to be attempting an exit from the 3rd lane.

 

This is the Eston parkway from google

A174 Eston.jpg

A174 Eston2.jpg

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Can i ask how the OP has got on?

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Edited by sailor sam
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Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Can i ask how the OP has got on?

 

This thread has been rather hijacked hasn't it!

 

In regards to the claim for traceylousieg, with all the best evidence from google maps, locus photographs etc, unless you have corroborating independent witness evidence most roundabout claims settle 50-50 as it simply is Claimant -v- Defendant's word, although if the CCTV evidence shows you cutting the TP up then you may end up with nothing.

 

Tell them they must give you a copy of the CCTV evidence so you can see for yourself what is on it and that it is not priviledged and essential for your defence/claim for you to see it.

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Can i ask how the OP has got on?

 

This thread has been rather hijacked hasn't it!

 

In regards to the claim for traceylousieg, with all the best evidence from google maps, locus photographs etc, unless you have corroborating independent witness evidence most roundabout claims settle 50-50 as it simply is Claimant -v- Defendant's word, although if the CCTV evidence shows you cutting the TP up then you may end up with nothing.

 

Tell them they must give you a copy of the CCTV evidence so you can see for yourself what is on it and that it is not priviledged and essential for your defence/claim for you to see it.

 

 

Hi, I have the CCTV footage and you can not see any road markings, you can see that I am ahead of the 3rd party on the roundabout and well in fornt, you can see my right signal.

NIG have stated they're no longer going to do 50/50 (although they suggested that to the third party in the first place???!! which they refused)

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There are any number of roundabouts laid out like the one in question. In your area you could look at the big roundabout at the Eston end of the parkway A174. When approaching the roundabout it is laid out in 3 lanes.

Left = Left for Eston and Straight on for Lackenby.

Middle = Straight on for Lackenby and Right for Redcar

Right = Right for Redcar

 

For Redcar I would use the middle lane to enter the roundabout, this puts you into the middle lane as you as the Eston turn off and give you the option of leaving at Lackenby also. The left lane then "disappears" into the Lackenby exit leaving you automatically in the left lane to continue round towards Redcar. If someone tried to exit to Lackenby from the 3rd lane that would be totally wrong and contrary to the road marking exactly as in your accident example.

 

You could look on google earth yourself (rather than having to drive around the country looking for examples) as the "zoom" in google is good enough to see lane markings on the roundabouts to make your logical deductions as to which lane to select and when to change lanes within the roundabout.

 

Try looking near Sunderland, which is where I work, at the A19/A690 roundabout, the next one up is the A19/A183 roundabout, then up again to the A19/A1231. These all have multiple lanes that would require lane choices like you took to turn right and not expect a car to be attempting an exit from the 3rd lane.

 

This is the Eston parkway from google

 

 

Thanks again for that Crem - it's much appreciated!!

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The fact of the matter is that the CCTV is classed as a "non bias witness". By having CCTV against you it will be hard for you to prove your stance.

Also when I looked at your plan it does appear that you obstructed the third parties exit causing a barricade, because you wanted to goto the next exit.

 

If you realy think you can win, and that the CCTV may be fake, then you can fight it. But remember if the CCTV is genuine and you loose at court your insurance company will put a big stamp on you.

At court the fees will go up and most likley your side will get a Solicitor to deal with it for you.

 

The only piece of advise I would say is request from your insurance a consultation with a Solicitor/ Barrister. Accidents on roundabouts do normally end up 50/50 unless CCTV is present or 1 person joins the roundabout without waiting, hiting the person on it (not so easy on small islands).

 

I hope this helps

 

 

Thanks for you help. One can only try!! The CCTV isn't fake it's from the retail park where the incident happened but it's not very clear. I have viewed it. You can not see any road markings and can just to say see my right signal. I am half way round the r/a b4 the 3rd party reaches me. You wouldn't undertake anyone on the left on a r/a if they had a left signal on and they were in the right lane as they'd be exiting - having to cross lanes to exit, would they be blocking your exit? so why over take someone with a right signal on. On occassions when turning right you HAVE to go passed other exits - there are EXACTLY the same layouts on other r/as that are test route.

My insurance has already gone up (last November) and I'm not with the same company. I still believe I am in the right as I was following DSA practices with regards to the road markings and I will fight my corner as much as I possibly can. If I don't win then I'll take it to the media etc as the what we as instrcutors teach under DSA guidlines is apparently not accepted as proceedures by insurance companies. That might make sense as to why new drivers have a high accident rate - if they do the procedures they have just been taught, have an accident and the insurance companies won't accept it as correct!! something needs to be to done!

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I don't understand the statement in the quote from alistair.long thinking the CCTV is against Tracylouise. Perhaps on review that is why the original has been deleted?

 

The CCTV would appear to confirm the 3rd party was in the 3rd lane, clearly marked as a compulsory right turn and Tracylouise was in the middle lane marked as an "optional choice" lane of straight on to exit or continue to the right. She states she was indicating to the right to confirm her choice of continuing right on this occasion. Whilst the CCTV may not show the road markings clearly, I would suggest the CCTV, in conjunction with a google maps printout which can show the lane markings that were appropriate to each of those lanes should go in Tracylouise's favour.

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I don't understand the statement in the quote from alistair.long thinking the CCTV is against Tracylouise. Perhaps on review that is why the original has been deleted?

 

The CCTV would appear to confirm the 3rd party was in the 3rd lane, clearly marked as a compulsory right turn and Tracylouise was in the middle lane marked as an "optional choice" lane of straight on to exit or continue to the right. She states she was indicating to the right to confirm her choice of continuing right on this occasion. Whilst the CCTV may not show the road markings clearly, I would suggest the CCTV, in conjunction with a google maps printout which can show the lane markings that were appropriate to each of those lanes should go in Tracylouise's favour.

 

 

They were probably an insurer crem - maybe one of those who doesn't understand official DSA procedcures with regards to multi lane r/a's!! Not sure why they'd delete it - particularly as I've quoted them!!

 

Letter done and will be sent recorded to FSA today - have included images of the said r/a in question and other test r/a's. CCTV doesn't show any road markings - it's not a bird eye view. It's not very clear at all as to what happens and they're going on the fact as to what I said I did and the lane I said I was in - they wouldn't have known that by the CCTV footage!

 

You can not have one practice (as taught by instructors and accepted as a procedure by the DSA) and another rule for insurers!! They conflict each other!!!

 

Oh and got this from DSA with regards to where it states in Highway Code that we drive on the left side in this country -

"The first legal reference in Britain to an order to remain on the left was in 1756 with regards only to London Bridge.The Highway Act 1773 contained a recommendation that all horse traffic should keep to the left. This was then made permanent in the Section 78 of the Highway Act 1835.As the rule of the road (keep left) is clearly now firmly established in the United Kingdom there is no reference made to this in the Highway Code."

 

Will keep you updated with FSA response!

 

 

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Hi

If this case goes to court you will loose and this is why your insurance company will not take the risk. If you feel so strongly about it, then maybe you should fund the court proceedings yourself. Your images as posted show you to be at fault. A 50/50 split would be your best option.

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Hi

If this case goes to court you will loose and this is why your insurance company will not take the risk. If you feel so strongly about it, then maybe you should fund the court proceedings yourself. Your images as posted show you to be at fault. A 50/50 split would be your best option.

 

What on earth do you base that statement on? Have you ever taken a UK driving test and if so, I can assure you that should you consider taking the path of the other vehicle as highlighted by Tracylouise on a test, then please don't expect the examiner to present you with a pass certificate at the end of it.

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What on earth do you base that statement on? Have you ever taken a UK driving test and if so, I can assure you that should you consider taking the path of the other vehicle as highlighted by Tracylouise on a test, then please don't expect the examiner to present you with a pass certificate at the end of it.

 

I base the statement on the hundreds of claims that I have dealt with exactly the same as this one. I passed my driving test around 25 years ago and at that time, and ever since, I have used the right lane on a roundabout when intending to take the third exit (turn right). If you teach new drivers to use the left lane to take the third exit, then I know why this is such a common accident.

The third party in this case did nothing wrong as he entered the roundabout to turn right. He exited onto a dual lane exit which he is within his rights to do so. As I stated, if this goes to court Tracey Louise would loose.

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Crem - I was JUST about to say Tilly GT MUST be an insurer!! Typical response!!

 

Im not an insurer, I am an ACII claims manager. Please dont be so rude when I was giving you good advise to try to get a 50/50 split liability. The TP insurer will crumble if threatened with a CPR PT 36 offer of 50/50. Dont waste money going to court as you will loose and the claim cost will treble. This will have an effect on your future policies. If you do not want my advise then please say so and I wll make no further comment.

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I base the statement on the hundreds of claims that I have dealt with exactly the same as this one. I passed my driving test around 25 years ago and at that time, and ever since, I have used the right lane on a roundabout when intending to take the third exit (turn right). If you teach new drivers to use the left lane to take the third exit, then I know why this is such a common accident.

The third party in this case did nothing wrong as he entered the roundabout to turn right. He exited onto a dual lane exit which he is within his rights to do so. As I stated, if this goes to court Tracey Louise would loose.

 

 

Well either the DSA is wrong or the Insurers are wrong and whatever happens I am in the process of bringing this to the attention of the media.

FSA have received my letter, next on my list is the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Again I reiterate that this probably explains why new drivers have accidents shortly after passing their test - they do the practices they have just been taught and passed a test with, have an accident and the insurance companies won't accept it as correct procedure and most people are too intimdated by the insurers to contest it.

 

Things have changed in 25 years!

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Im not an insurer, I am an ACII claims manager. Please dont be so rude when I was giving you good advise to try to get a 50/50 split liability. The TP insurer will crumble if threatened with a CPR PT 36 offer of 50/50. Dont waste money going to court as you will loose and the claim cost will treble. This will have an effect on your future policies. If you do not want my advise then please say so and I wll make no further comment.

 

My apologies. The third party has already refused 50/50 and my insurance has already gone up. Like I said this is now in the hands of the FSA.

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Just to reiterate........

 

"the rules of the Highway code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can be helped to avoid an incident"

 

"when reaching the roundabout you should - watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout"

 

"in all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout"

 

"DO NOT over take where you may come into conflict with other road users, when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled"

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The third party in this case did nothing wrong as he entered the roundabout to turn right. He exited onto a dual lane exit [it was still 3 lanes when he attempted his exit. He was in a lane marked with a right turn arrow]which he is within his rights to do so. As I stated, if this goes to court Tracey Louise would loose.

 

Yes he did enter to turn right in the right hand lane which, at that time was ok within teh roadmarkings. However, he failed to instigate traversing to the left at appropriate times resulting in him still being in a compulsory "turn right" lane when he attempted to cross 2 lanes of potential traffic. His use of the right lane to turn right is not in question, his exit proceedure is.

 

If you teach new drivers to use the left lane to take the third exit, then I know why this is such a common accident.

Yes, I also know why the accidents happen. Because too many "experienced" drivers don't understand how to drive them correctly. Or are you suggesting that the DSA approved driving instructors and the DSA appointed test examiners are all wrong?

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Although I do not normally get involved in high-jacked threads, I will give an opinion as an advanced driver. The normal rule on using round-a-bouts is to give way to traffic from the right. According to the first digaram the car following the 'blue' course had right of way over than that of the car following the 'red' course. Without seeing the CCTV eveidence (which will probably give the true incident more accurately), it would appear that consiquenty the 'red' car failed to give way to the 'blue' car and thus obstructing it's progress to it's exit which has resulted in the collision. So I am inclined to agree with TillyGT.

 

I will stress however, that I am basing this on the diagram provided which does not give the actual true positions of either car at the relevant times.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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You are quite right of course sailor sam, however, I think you will find in Tracylouise's explanation is that the car following the blue line "caught up" with the red car, which had already entered the roundabout safely, with his use of speed. Thereby he attempted an overtaking manouevre AND exit across 3 lanes of potential traffic in one movement.

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You are quite right of course sailor sam, however, I think you will find in Tracylouise's explanation is that the car following the blue line "caught up" with the red car, which had already entered the roundabout safely, with his use of speed. Thereby he attempted an overtaking manouevre AND exit across 3 lanes of potential traffic in one movement.

 

which is why I said that the CCTV is the only way to see the actual incident accurately. Without that, the OP will be deemed at fault in my opinion which is why I agree with TillyGT on how the insures will see it.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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