Taking virgin media to court for late payment charges refund

[itsamomentintime]

hello all need a bit of advice

 

I am suing VM for a full refund of the late payment charges they have levied against me

 

I have received their defence today which is interesting. it consists of 2 witness statements and some t&cs

 

the first WS states:

 

1. the late payment charge is applied in order to recover the costs incurred on the defendant in the event of a late payment

 

2. the £10 charge is the average cost to the defendant in the event of a late payment

 

3. the defendant cannot reveal how it calculates the £10 charge as it is a NASDAQ company and this information is sensitive

 

4. the costs are incurred due to overheads, staffing costs, letters and phone calls

 

5. the actual cost is £10.19, rounded down to £10 (how kind)

 

the second witness statement is just billing and notes from the account

 

 

I would like in court to get them to provide a breakdown of their charges in full. court date is set for May - any thoughts?

 

 

i will post my POC tomorrow

[itsamomentintime]

POC:

 

Particulars of claim.

 

 

 

The claimant has an account for the provision of cable TV Telephone and Internet services.

Account number xxx operated within their standard

 

During the periods September 2009 to present, at regular monthly intervals, inclusive, the defendant has levied charges to the claimants account for late payments to the account.

The claimant tried to negotiate with the defendant to have these charges refunded, or alternatively supply a breakdown of their costs which would demonstrate the said charges to be a genuine pre estimate of its costs or losses in relation to the charges.

The claimant wrote two letters one of which was a letter before action sent on 8th July 2010. The Defendant has refused to refund the said charges or provide evidence to show that they are justified, or can be shown to be a reasonable assessment of their costs.

The claimant believes these charges to be a disproportionate penalty, and therefore are unenforceable being contrary to common law. Additionally the claimant believes they are invalid under the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations (regulation 5) and the unfair contract terms act 1977 s4.

Also, that they are unfair under consumer contract terms regulations 1999 para B sch 2.1.e

In the event that they are not a penalty, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the supply of goods and services act 1982 s15.

The claimant received a telephone call from one of the defendants’ telephone operators which gave a final response that no charges would be refunded, and that no breakdown of its costs would be provided to me.

The claimant has given the defendant a further 28 days to reconsider, but unfortunately their position remains the same.

Reluctantly therefore, the claimant seeks no alternative than to file this claim in the County Court. I, the claimant believe that I have followed pre action protocols in this matter.

A list of the charges is attached, the defendants have previously been sent this list.

[itsamomentintime]

hello all need a bit of advice

 

I am suing VM for a full refund of the late payment charges they have levied against me

 

I have received their defence today which is interesting. it consists of 2 witness statements and some t&cs

 

the first WS states:

 

1. the late payment charge is applied in order to recover the costs incurred on the defendant in the event of a late payment

 

2. the £10 charge is the average cost to the defendant in the event of a late payment

 

3. the defendant cannot reveal how it calculates the £10 charge as it is a NASDAQ company and this information is sensitive

 

4. the costs are incurred due to overheads, staffing costs, letters and phone calls

 

5. the actual cost is £10.19, rounded down to £10 (how kind)

 

the second witness statement is just billing and notes from the account

 

 

I would like in court to get them to provide a Breakdown of their charges in full. court date is set for May - any thoughts?

[itsamomentintime]

POC:

 

Particulars of claim.

 

 

 

The claimant has an account for the provision of cable TV Telephone and Internet services.

Account number xxx operated within their standard

 

During the periods September 2009 to present, at regular monthly intervals, inclusive, the defendant has levied charges to the claimants account for late payments to the account.

The claimant tried to negotiate with the defendant to have these charges refunded, or alternatively supply a breakdown of their costs which would demonstrate the said charges to be a genuine pre estimate of its costs or losses in relation to the charges.

The claimant wrote two letters one of which was a letter before action sent on 8th July 2010. The Defendant has refused to refund the said charges or provide evidence to show that they are justified, or can be shown to be a reasonable assessment of their costs.

The claimant believes these charges to be a disproportionate penalty, and therefore are unenforceable being contrary to common law. Additionally the claimant believes they are invalid under the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations (regulation 5) and the unfair contract terms act 1977 s4.

Also, that they are unfair under consumer contract terms regulations 1999 para B sch 2.1.e

In the event that they are not a penalty, they are unreasonable within the meaning of the supply of goods and services act 1982 s15.

The claimant received a telephone call from one of the defendants’ telephone operators which gave a final response that no charges would be refunded, and that no breakdown of its costs would be provided to me.

 

The claimant has given the defendant a further 28 days to reconsider, but unfortunately their position remains the same.

 

Reluctantly therefore, the claimant seeks no alternative than to file this claim in the county court. I, the claimant believe that I have followed pre action protocols in this matter.

A list of the charges is attached, the defendants have previously been sent this list.

[Jasper1965]

What really gets on my wick about these "late charges" from Virgin is that because you must pay 1 month (or in our case 7 weeks) in advance then the late charges are levied on your account at a time when you aren't late per se you have simply failed to pay in advance.

In our instance we paid the bill three weeks in advance yet were perpetually billed the £10 penalty and when it all went horribly wrong (ie I asked Virgin to justify some amounts on the bill and their billing method and charges) and we terminated the agreement, they decided to register us as being one month in arrears with the CRA's (previously didn't bother registering the info) for the duration.

They issued a default notice which included 7 weeks advance charges, then when the guy came round to collect the box it 'disappeared' after leaving the house so they added another £250 for the equipment.

A dreadful company to deal with, nobody actually understands their own billing process or how amounts are contrived.

Good luck with this, I'll be watching to see how you get on but I do think you should have made issue of the fact that the late penalty fee is applied in instances where you are not actually late but have simply failed to pay in advance.

[Jasper1965]

And now constructively:

 

4. the costs are incurred due to overheads, staffing costs, letters and phone calls.

 

Letters and phone calls:

 

As I remember you get 1 computer generated letter max and no phone calls if you are simply one month in arrears with Virgin, perhaps you should seek screen printouts of your a/c (though tbh you should have SAR'ed them first but they have 40 days so can be done before may) to see what actions are taken by Virgin between the point "you fail to pay the bill on time" and "the point at which you pay the bill". A fat lot of nothing is what I suspect with possibly a letter x generated and sent entry but no manual intervention which would prove they're claiming in Court for costs that haven't been incurred.

[liquidauctions]

So being a nasdaq listed company means dont declare how you calculate? I hope you boost up your claim amount by around 20% and say its sensative information.

[andydd]

Interesting..I'm subbing too..How about challanging the extra £5 for not paying by direct debit too ? (I recall that Busby had some success on this point).

 

Andy

[24233513afw]

Subbing with interest....just about to send for SAR to help claim late charges back....Virgin/Telewest/Cable

 

 

Good luck with your case, all finders crossed.

 

Cheers

AFW

Edited March 25, 2011 by MARTIN3030
inapp wording

[MARTIN3030]

Subbing with interest....just about to send for SAR to help claim late charges back....Virgin/Telewest/Cable

 

 

Good luck with your case, all finders crossed.

 

Cheers

AFW

 

Hi,

You will be best running your thread in the telecoms forum.

Here there have been a few others who have gone through the process,including myself with 3 sep claims.

[MARTIN3030]

VM changed tacs in defending their claims with their supposedly genuine pre estimate being submitted only in the last few months.

The questions raised about the late payments themselves as falling within advanced charges actually could be demonstrating an unfair relationship which prsents an unfair playing field that is stacked in their favour.

 

That aside,You are entitled to be seeking a true breakdown,since anyone can conjure up figures.

There was a case on the CAG a couple of years ago involving Citi Financial and a CAG member which was heard in an Irish Court.

Citi Financial argued that their costings were commercially sensitive and went as far as asking the Judge to read them in secret !

The Court of course denied the request.

Interestingly enough,Citi Financial were also adamant that it cost them MORE than their charges and that they were still losing money by rounding them down.

 

We know that for VM to raise a late payment letter,it is an automated process,and generating a systems templated letter no way costs £10.

In fact it is probably 80p tops.

[itsamomentintime]

Martin can you elaborate? Which Act entitles me to a breakdown of charges?

[MARTIN3030]

Its not an Act -you need to be filing an order for disclosure (draft directions)

Has your case been allocated yet?

Ideally it would be appropriate to file it with your AQ.

[itsamomentintime]

i did not include a disclosure order!!

[venkman4]

What really gets on my wick about these "late charges" from Virgin is that because you must pay 1 month (or in our case 7 weeks) in advance then the late charges are levied on your account at a time when you aren't late per se you have simply failed to pay in advance.

 

 

 

Agree with this totally, how can you possibly be late when you are always a month in advance.

I am currently having issues with VM with regards to these outrageous fees, I am being charged an extra £15 a month, every month by VM, simply because I cannot get ahead of the curve.

My pay cycle varies, so I dare not have a DD set up and as a result have to pay VM an extra £5 a month, when its generally accepted a debit card payment incurs a cost of around 20p.

[renegadeimp]

Hi venkman. Can you post in a new thread please. You replied to one that is 3 years old.