Getting information from a hospital

[frankieg]

I made a complaint about my fathers poor hospital care back in sept 2009. After dealing with the hospital and Ombudsman for all this time I've gotten nowhere. Finally talked to my new MP - he contacted the hospital to find out what's going on and received a reply from the CEO with a lot of conflicting and inaccurate information. This was only a few weeks ago and he forwarded it to me. My main concerns are where else did it go and what other inaccurate information was also sent out?. The CEO is only willing to investigate a 'complaint about the handling of a complaint' whatever that is not re-investigate the complaint itself . Can I get copies of all information sent within and to agencies outside the Trust about this complaint? I would ask PALs for help but they tell me that the complaints department refuses to have anything to do with me as the hospital has 'closed' this case. Also since a lot of the inaccuracies are about me- what i did and didn't do ( for example that they set up a meeting between me and the consultant and i canceled it, when actually i went!)would i have grounds to launch a new complaint about what has been said about me?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Send the hospital Trust a Subject Access Request; this will oblige them to provide you with all the data they hold pertaining to you.

 

Be aware, though, that they can charge up to £50 for this (as opposed to the usual £10 for non-medical SAR).

 

You may also want to consider speaking to the hospital's Trustees about the way your complaint has been handled. Ultimately you can take your complaint to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

 

I shouldn't be at all surprised to find a catalogue of admin errors, and then a flurry of arse-protecting measures leading to the Chief Exec being told what his staff think he wants to hear - especially if there have been previous similar complaints.

[postggj]

google

 

ACCESS TO MEDICAL RECORDS ACT 1988

[ScarletPimpernel]

google

 

ACCESS TO MEDICAL RECORDS ACT 1988

 

 

There's no such legislation. You may be thinking of the Access to Medical Reports Act 1988, which only concerns access to reports for employment or insurance purposes.

[postggj]

to true

 

me jumping the gun again

 

try this

 

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1309.aspx?categoryid=68&subcategoryid=160

[frankieg]

Thank you this information request is it only for my fathers medical records? - i have those. Letters were sent by the hospital CEO to 2 MPs (one to the labour in power before the election, the other to the Conservative who took over from her) and they contain conflicting information. I have been to the ombudsman who declined to investigate, she says mostly based on what the complaints department told her. Some of these things originated from there. The letter the conservative MP received was full of lets say 'untruths' and they where about me -what i said and did , not about my dad who the complaint was about. The hospital portrayed me as a relative who wouldn't accept dad received examplery care and how they bent over backward trying to accommaidate me - for example, that they set up meetings for me and i kept cancelingl them (there were two and i went to both) and it made the MP turn me down. The MP had me write out these discrepancies and he sent them to the CEO. he refuses to discuss them with the MP- it doesnt seem to bother him he lied to an MP . Since he obviously has no intention of correcting inaccurate information, I need to know what else he said and to where it got sent to.

[rebel11]

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/health.aspx

[ScarletPimpernel]

What do you hope to do if you can obtain the information?

 

From your latest posts it seems that you have exhausted all the usual channels of complaint, and it looks as if the MP and the Ombudsman have decided that the complaint has been dealt with, even though you don't agree with the outcome. Frankly, if you want to show that hospital staff lied or covered up, I doubt that it will be worth the effort.

[frankieg]

The MP is approaching the ombudsman about her decision- as he wasn't too impressed by the hospital treatment of my father and myself. But he cant do anything about finding out what information the CEO sent elsewhere- thats outside his area. He is worried that , without a change in hospital policy, this situation could easily arise again and happen to someone else. And since what happened to my father led to his death well I really do consider it worth the effort. So again can I use Subject Access Request to get information other then just his chart?

Edited February 17, 2011 by frankieg
spelling

[ScarletPimpernel]

We can't guess what you want to do, hence the questions - you had not previously mentioned that your father had died, or the MP's disquiet at the Ombudsman's findings.

 

A subject access request should reveal all the data held on an individual, not just medical records, but it will be worthwhile being specific in the request. The Information Commissioner's website at http://www.ico.gov.uk has details of how to make a request for data relating to a deceased person.

 

You should be aware that if a data processor doesn't want to disclose data they will find ways to keep it to themselves - a SAR isn't a magic bullet.

 

Your MP can ask the Secretary of State for Health to investigate - but he'll know that.

[frankieg]

Thanks scarlet pimpernel, appreciate the info. I will try PAls for the information . Sorry about not passing on things . Dads death was a long drawn out affair in which a very active independent man ended up totally bed-bound on oxygen and in great pain. I took him home for terminal care and it was very distressing especially as i knew from my own nursing knowledge he should never had ended up like this. Even nearly a year later I dont like talking about it

[ScarletPimpernel]

Thanks scarlet pimpernel, appreciate the info. I will try PAls for the information . Sorry about not passing on things . Dads death was a long drawn out affair in which a very active independent man ended up totally bed-bound on oxygen and in great pain. I took him home for terminal care and it was very distressing especially as i knew from my own nursing knowledge he should never had ended up like this. Even nearly a year later I dont like talking about it

 

I think that the feelings you describe are normal, and part of your grieving process. Thank you for providing the details, - it helps to have the whole picture.

 

The events surrounding your father's death are clearly still very raw for you, and I wonder if the way in which matters have not been satisfactorily resolved is prolonging things to some extent, which would be completely understandable.

 

I think that you need to be very clear about what your concerns are now (as opposed to rehashing the original complaint); as I read things these revolve around conflicting statements in correspondence to MPs, and that these statements are in some way derogatory to you or untrue. In addition, I think you need to have a clear idea of what will bring resolution; otherwise, I suspect that positions will become even more entrenched and the original problem will be forgotten. If you are looking for an acknowledgement that things went wrong, have you made this clear? I ask because the default setting in many Trusts is that complaint = compensation, so they go on the defensive from the outset.

[frankieg]

Oh I've done my grieving- now I'm just angry. The hospital and ombudsman are fully aware all I wanted for dad was a proper apology for what happened to him and something done so no one else suffered as he did. He waited 17 hrs for emergency surgery for a condition that the NHS considers 'extremely dangerous and labile requiring immediate treatment' . By the time he had the operation part of his bowel was dead, had perforated, he was full of pus and had peritonitis. The hospital stated - in writing- all operations in their emergency theater were on emergency patients sicker then he was but wont answer why 2 elective operations were performed in that theater just before him delaying him a further 4 hours. The delay and electives being operated on in the emergency theater is what the MP is taking to the ombudsman. And its not just me- the District nurses ( who i had to arrange to take care of the fist sized hole in his groin he was dismissed with, which was contaminated because he was doubly incontinent and had diarrhea ) tried to get an investigation as to why he was sent home in such poor shape- they wanted to send him back the day after he came home- they didn't get anywhere. Even the GP was disgusted All I got was a denial he was incontinent, although i have a letter saying he was, a letter saying his wound wasn't infected , a second saying it was infected and a third saying it had the potential to be infected as to why it wasnt closed or a drain inserted . And thats just on one thing that happened after surgery, theres many more-too many to go into here. I have 3 years after dad died and iwill find a way to get that apology

[ScarletPimpernel]

It sounds dreadful, and I can understand why you are angry.

 

I regularly have to explain to people the other side of the coin - why their elective surgery was cancelled for the third day running because of emergencies, for example - and I know that the answers are rarely simple, though I'm not trying to make excuses for the NHS.

 

I can't suggest anything else at the moment, though I sincerely hope that you will get the outcome you're seeking.

[lady-in-red]

Hi Frankieg, i dont blame you to keep it going, they know what they did to your father and should apologise, but they think they are to big for that, i have chased them for what17 monthes now and im not giving up and they know it, untill they tell me the truth i will persue it im not going away and thats what they dont like they believe their answer is it finished well its not finished not till they answer what they did wrong, i now have the records i wanted, and i have seen the DNAR signed by the doctor, and he states that he will WITHDRAW my sons treatment, yet another doctor says "in light of the progress i am not ready to limit, so they actually disagreed, he pulled himself through it his strength pulled him through and the love of his family, the doctor told us that, yet he wouldnt resus my son if he went into cardiac arrest, doctors dont know everything my sons life was on a thread but he pulled through and i beleive they should wait if a patient is going to die then let them die but at least keep them going not pull the plug because they feel its nessesary, they are not gods and shouldnt play gods with peoples lives

[hector205]

Hi Frankieg

 

I can explain why your father was sent home in such a poor state, its to do with HDMR's, if you want a further explaination, please let me know. The same thing happened to my father, a very poor discharge, with no home oxygen etc. I hope you have received my recent posts/messages (private).

 

Regards

[lady-in-red]

id never go to the ombudsman they work with the NHS no one wins with them, and once you have gone through them your CASE IS CLOSED so dont bother

[frankieg]

What are HDMR's Hector? I remember about your dad- it was terrible. I got your messages and have replied. And scarletpimpernel, thanks for your kind words and advice- and I feel very sorry for todays nurses always stuck in the middle. This that happened to dad was only on his first admission. There were two more ,the last one being 7 weeks on the ward and in intensive care. On those two admission his care was wonderful and couldn't be faulted..

[frankieg]

hector- your mailbox is full so i cant send messages to you.

[kerrie.]

i work and have worked in several NHS hospitals, there is alway a complaint department, which consists of a couple of secs doing the admin, i have dealt with several different data access requests, and there is indeed a form you can complete to have access to medical files, my employers chanrge the full £50, but i would suggest rather than going through PALS, or the complaints department, contact the Medical Records department, there will be the people ultimately who will charge you and copy the file and send to you. contact the main number for the hospital and ask for the medical records department, ask for the access to patient medical records form, get them to send it you, fill it out and send back to them with the cheque.

[lady-in-red]

do we have to pay for Subject Access Request SAR this is information all hospitals keep about us thats what i want to get hold of then i can see just what they do say about patients, i have my sons notes now and its full of lies, why do they write things about us when we never said it, i think this is all wrong, my MP will be seeing this, and i have now seen the DNAR request form, and that doctor did say he wanted to withdraw my sons treatment, yet another doctor dissagreed with the withdrawing and got him on ecmoo where he got over his illness and is alive, this is disgraceful how can just one doctor put a DNAR on a patient and yet there was other treatments for my son,its like your going to die and your going to live because i said so now they are trusts there is no one higher than them so we as patients have no protection now no wonder they wanted to becaome trsusts so they have no one to answer to anymore and they can do what they want to us its all wrong

[hector205]

Hi All

 

I've been told its a Data Subject Access and it costs £10.00. Not sure what information it may contain.

 

At my local LINKs they have queried the validity of PROM's - operations with poor outcomes such as knee, hip replacements, hernias and varicose veins. Has anyone experienced difficulty in getting these operations in the NHS?

[lady-in-red]

Hi Hector i thought someone said it held all info about you, not sure if thats right, id like to do a SAR, just to see what they do have on me, and maybe one on my son, after reading his notes i think we really do need to see his notes more than mine,how long does it take for them to come does anyone know?

[ScarletPimpernel]

The SAR fee for medical records can be £50, rather than the £10 fee that applies for other data. Note that this is the maximum fee that can be charged - data controllers don't have to charge anything.