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    • @dx100uk being the stresser that I am, I’ve tried to get as many viewpoints as I can. I’m pretty dismayed with one I’ve received on Reddit, whereby someone thought I had a good case, but have now backtracked, and gave some Argos terms and conditions which have me worried.    They firstly wrote to my query…  OP, this is a straightforward cancellation under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, which replaced the Distance Selling Regulations. That you picked it up from an Argos store is irrelevant - it was a distance contract because you didn't get to inspect the goods before making the purchase. As your parents cancelled the contract within 14 days of taking possession of the item, by bringing it back to the shop, they do not need to prove that there is anything wrong with it at all. The 14-day window for a refund technically started on the day you (tried) to return it. However, as it is on you to show that you cancelled it, I suggest you do so in writing to Argos. Please also complain to trading standards (you must use the Citizens Advice Bureau to do this now) about Argos's behaviour - we see this problem here on a regular basis.     he has then since came back with this…   In the Regulations, reg 5 provides that "distance contract" means: a contract concluded between a trader and a consumer under an organised distance sales or service-provision scheme without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer, with the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded; Argos's terms and conditions say that the contract is not concluded until the goods which you have already paid for have been collected (clause 2.3). Depending on how "collected" is interpreted, this may not be a distance contract after all, because the contract was not "concluded between a trader and a consumer ... without the simultaneous physical presence of the trader and the consumer," and there was not "the exclusive use of one or more means of distance communication up to and including the time at which the contract is concluded". So Argos's position would be that you could have arrived at the front counter, had the iPhone brought to you, inspected it, and decided not to take it. That would have meant that the order was not "collected", so the contract was not concluded - there was no contract. At the point you decide to accept the iPhone, the item is "collected" and the contract is concluded - but as this was on their premises, it cannot be distance selling within the meaning of the Regulations. I must admit, it's a new one - I can't find mention of them adopting this position successfully anywhere online but I'm afraid it is fairly legally compelling. To counter this, you would need to try and show that the term around when the contract is concluded is a sham or unenforceable term, or more likely unfair, but even with the considerable leeway afforded to consumers in consumer contracts, you may struggle to defeat privity of contract. I think go back to trading standards and see where you can get.  
    • not a chance of police involvement after the event the police are not interested in small fry, just the big organised gangs that shoplift to fund drugs. dx
    • or just click any named forum and we'll move it here for you.   dx  
    • oh yea ta! one last question what date was the CCJ/Default judgement? dx
    • maybe a dodgy letter but you can avoid those too. police are VERY VERY unlikely so don't stress about that.
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Code of Practice for Accurate Bills / Back Billing for Domestic Customers


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  • 6 months later...

"Under the Code, from 1 July 2007, where the suppliers are at fault in not billing a domestic

customer, they will not send a bill which includes unbilled energy consumed more than 1 year

previous to the bill being issued."

 

Can I clarify this applies in the situation where my energy supplier stopping billing for usage in error and only noticed after > 2 years? i.e. it was their fault for not billing but I didn't inform them of this and it was an audit by the energy company which identified the problem.

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The Code of Practice for Accurate Bills (the Code) has been developed by the Energy Retail Association (ERA) with British Gas (including Scottish Gas), EDF Energy, E.ON, npower and Scottish Power; these companies all support the independently-audited Code of Practice and are committed to the Code as a minimum standard of service for customers. Scottish and Southern Energy has a Domestic Customer Charter which includes similar standards of service in relation to billing and back billing. This document reflects the principles which all of the major energy suppliers apply in relation to back billing.

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Ok but Scottish Hydro Electric is not mentioned so am I to assume they DO NOT subscribe to this charter? Or do you know if they have specifically excluded themselves from this charter?

 

The reason for the question is that I have been back billed > 2 years by Scottish Hydro Electric as a result of their error in not billing me. I have been a customer of Scottish Hydro Electric at my address for the past 7 years when they suddenly stopped billing.

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  • 1 month later...

My situation is similar. i have been with npower for about a year now yet have never had a bill. Last July I called them asking when i would be billed. In short they had no answer and could only tell me that i was in debt to them. I am paying via a payment card at the rate of £50pm yet STILL receive no bills. They have called me twice, despite my paying on-the-dot of each month, more or less ordering me to pay £100pm, something which is just not affordable.

I have no idea how much is owed, how much is current, nothing, yet they have all my details correct re posting bills etc and they managed to post the card to me so I'm in a bit of a quandary here.

Any ideas or advice?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have a similar problem with EDF. I moved house in October 2010 which was under Southern Electric. I then transferred to EDF in January 2011 and have yet to recieve a Gas Bill. I have made my complaint and i am being told that it is in the hands of a specialist team ( Load of BS if you ask me)..Am i correct in thinking that if i have not received a bill by January (12 months since joining EDF) i will not be liable to pay for any gas used that is more than 12 months old?Any help would be greatfull.Thanks,DGS

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I have finally recieved a gas Bill from EDF energy.. Shocked is not the word... £800 Gas Bill from 4th Jan to 16th Nov!!The booklet i received when joining EDF said my gas charges were a daily charge of 23.07pence per day and a usage cost of 3.08per Unit (Kwh). i took this as my meter cost per unit of gas used as being 3.08 pence, i.e 10 units= 38p / 100unit =£3.80 etc etc . My bill shows the total units used as 2640 and it says this equals over 28000 Kwh................The code of practice says that they should provide clear and understanding bills.. My bill does not show or explain how this calculation is worked out nor does any of my paperwork say that this calculation even exists.. Anyone any advice on what to do regarding a dispute.?ThanksDGS

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I'm not convinced you would have this removed. Yes you're right in relation to the fact if they haven't charged you after a year it has to be wiped off for domestic users (not businesses) but that's if you've made every effort to ensure they have read the meter and asked them about paying the bill. If you've said nothing I think you'd be on dodgy grounds. Those that have attempted should be fine.

 

@ don't get shafted it should deffo be on the bill somewhere.

 

Electricity is easy. Just multiply the units used by the tariff prices (there may be more than one).

Gas is more tricky. Don't have the figures in front of me but from memory it's the following:

 

your units used (since your last bill) multiplied by 2.83 (roughly) X 1.022640 (roughly) x (the calorific factor roughly about 39 ish) ALL divided by 3.6.

 

2.83 is to convert to metric (if it isn't already).

1.022640 is for the temp and pressure variations.

calorific factor is kinda how good the energy is and is usually from say 38 - 43.

3.6 is to convert from seconds into kwh (once all the other factors are worked out).

 

Sorry this is a bit tricky. Once you've had a few goes at it. it/s not too bad. I had big problems with Npower so I looked into it and found it's not that hard really.

 

The only figures that change above really are the number of units used and the calorific value. (and maybes if you're using a metric meter).

 

Best bet is too google Gas conversion factors and there's probably a calculator site that will work it out.

 

The companies quite often get it wrong. Even basic stuff. So don't be afraid to challenge them if you think it's wrong.

 

Later on they also wanted to charge me about £7 in VAT. My bill was for about £95 + VAT.

As VAT is 5% on fuel the vat should have been about say £4.50 not £7. I explained that as it's only 5% that if I'd used £100 it should be £5 for VAT. As I'd used less than £100 it must be less but they were adamant it was £7. Eventually got this and many other basic errors sorted and got compensation too. Result. :)

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  • 2 months later...

what happends when you find out you have been paying somebody elses bill i was paying 35 pound a month for a year just noticed it phoned them up and it turns out i have been paying someone elses bill he even phoned up and told edf (please note i dont know him and he lives 300 miles away) but nothing was done till i noticed it this morning, they have refunded me the money but i asked for compensation since it was there fault they are rining me back in the morning how much do you think i should go for,

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what happends when you find out you have been paying somebody elses bill i was paying 35 pound a month for a year just noticed it phoned them up and it turns out i have been paying someone elses bill he even phoned up and told edf (please note i dont know him and he lives 300 miles away) but nothing was done till i noticed it this morning, they have refunded me the money but i asked for compensation since it was there fault they are rining me back in the morning how much do you think i should go for,

 

Who is your provider?

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I was hoping it was one of the utility companies that have a Rep on CAG.

 

If the money they've refunded was in excess of your normal bill you should have had 8% statutory interest as well.

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  • 2 years later...

 

I have this and took it to court with Npower. They simply disregard this as they do every other directive. The worrying thing is that if I did this in my proffession (ignored our code of conduct) I would be instantly dismissed from my organisation and be bankrupt. Why does this continue for energy companies?

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This thread is 2years+ old.

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Well my action was two years ago. Still waiting for compensation. The 'back billing' directive was simply ignored. Its parr for the course really. Basically energy companies are not challenged and if you don't like it you can complain but then you'll get a hasty tax bill (as director moves to become director of Inland Revenue) very strange practice that is the reason why I am leaving this country.

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  • 1 month later...

Its all very well posters saying the "code" enables you to do this and that but who is the body that ENFORCES THE CODE OF ACCURATE BILLING for an individual domestic customer????? In my view the unenforceable "code" is not worth a carrot.

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