Form 4 complaint,Judges decision went with bailiff. What now?

[BANTAM66]

I would be very grateful for advice on how to deal with this disgraceful decision,I have a strong case and the reasons Judge gave were an insult.

[outlawla]

BANTAM66,

 

It wasn't Judge Appleton was it?

 

You did better than me if the Judge gave you a reason.

Form 4 images.doc

[BANTAM66]

Yes it was,obviously taking backhanders from marstons.Its a disgrace,i may aswell not bothered .Im that upset im in tears,what to do next?

[fork-it]

What was your complaint, and what did you want the court to do?

[ploddertom]

Did you exhaust the Bailiffs complaints procedures and as Fork It says above what was your complaint? More info required.

 

PT

[fork-it]

Yes it was,obviously taking backhanders from marstons.Its a disgrace

 

How do you know about this?

 

This would be corruption and merits an investigation of the judge by the SFO and check whether money has changed hands. Its within their remit but you can obnly have it investigated if you make a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman.

[fork-it]

Did you exhaust the Bailiffs complaints procedures

 

I wouldnt worry too much about the bailiffs complaints procedure, theres no legal requirement to follow it. An aggrieved party has a right to start a claim in the county court. A lot quicker too, and more reliable than the Form 4 complaints route.

[ploddertom]

I wouldnt worry too much about the bailiffs complaints procedure, theres no legal requirement to follow it.

 

That's as maybe but 9 times out of ten this would be seen as not giving an opportunity to possibly right a wrong. I agree if they did correctly in the first place then there would be no complaint. Also if it comes up before the Judge that awarded the original Certificate they don't like it to be seen they got it wrong.

 

PT

[brassnecked]

That's as maybe but 9 times out of ten this would be seen as not giving an opportunity to possibly right a wrong. I agree if they did correctly in the first place then there would be no complaint. Also if it comes up before the Judge that awarded the original Certificate they don't like it to be seen they got it wrong.

 

PT

 

Iwould agree with ploddertom, that it enhances your case if you can show you have tried every open avenue and followed the procedure, and have taken to litigation as a last resort.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

'Judge' Applteton also refused my form 4 complaint.

 

He concluded that adding £350 to a £700 LO, by levying on one of several cars in an MOT bay next door, on the first visit was just fine.

Even the bailiffs didn't agree - thet deleted ALL the fees.

 

This guy is corrupt in one way or another. Either by ideology - that he is on the 'same side' as the bailiffs and should look out for them, or ..........

[Thegreenpimpernel]

As to your question.

 

I never got an answer from anyone as to what the next step is.

 

Can you tell us the details.

 

Perhaps we can all get together and file a joint complaint to the ministry of justice about Mr Appletons competence to hear complaints about bailiffs.

[BANTAM66]

I listed ten valid points where Marstons and thier Bailiff were at fault.I will post my form 4 complaint as it is complicated to say the least.This may take some time as i am not very au fait with computers,in brief this is what occurred.HMCS wrote to me to inform me that they had passed my account to the bailiffs for collection.Irang HMCS and they gave me Marstons number,i rang Marstons to establish what to do next.They were nasty and unhelpful and informed me that unless i payed the full amount within a fortnight the bailliff would attend.At this point i informed her that i did not live at the adresse they had for me and that it was my mothers address and a c/o adress only so it will be necessary to give prior notice of when the baillif was going to call due to the fact that my mother is 78 and in poor health having just come out of hospital and shouldnt have to deal with my issues.It would also ensure that i would be there.She then informed that wasnt how it worked.So the bailiff turned up at my mums without any prior notice and promptly took 500 pounds of my mother for a fine that is over 7 years old and which i have served a prison sentence for.Now if thats acceptable in the eyes of a JUDGE then what hope have i got.All i wanted was for Marstons to reimburse my mother and make arrangements to deal with myself.Too much to ask ???

[BANTAM66]

Well said.Im prepared to stand up and say APPLETON is on the take or a blithering idiot.Yes lets get together and apply some pressure.Im out of work ive got plenty of time to do whats necessary.

[dbcc33]

reading through all this, it higlights to me more and more how this process is outrageous! I have only recently joined the ranks of you guys after being clamped by newlyn bailiffs for an unpaid parking penalty that i didnt even know about. at the moment it is with the TEC but they seem to be taking their sweet time over it even though the councils deadline is well overdue.

Can i ask whether or not you were ordered to pay the bailff's costs? I have heard that some judges allow this to happen, which i think is just downrigh ridiculous when it is them who summon them to court! it is scary though and would put people of filing the complaint if tis is a potential outcome?

[Thegreenpimpernel]

My complaint didn't even get a hearing.

 

It was dismissed in writing.

 

'Judge' Appleton believes that levying on a car in an MOT bay at the garage next door ( I kid you not!) and applying a £300 'removal fee', on the day of the levy, (without removing the very car he was looking at) is just fine.

 

I wont bore you with the bailiffs blatant contradictions (in writing!) but i'll give you a taster:

 

In one e-mail they said they had attended my business premises with a VAN and had hired the appropriate health and safety equipment to remove the goods seized. Not a ridiculous lie, given the hazards inside my premises, until.....

 

After i pointed out that they had never been in and there was no levy, they basically backtracked and said, in writting:

 

Oh yeah..... It was a car parked in that space next to you. (Yes, the one MOT only, belonging to the mechanics / MOT bay next door!)

 

If judge Appleton cannot deduce that:

 

a) they were lying, or surely commiting perjury by lying to him.

 

and

 

b) that their actions charges were not lawful

 

Then i shudder to think that this man presides over serious criminal cases.

 

Frightening!

[caledfwlch]

Go right to the top and complain about his fitness to be a judge. Looks pretty clear cut if you can provide written evidence of what the bailiff's said, and what this chap has ruled.

[dbcc33]

hmm it does seem that very few form 4 complaints are successful-i even discussed this with the guy that answers the phone when you phone the court to check the cartificated bailiff register.....it seems its best to first try and go down a different route if you're arguing about fees, but in your case it might even be best to compaint directly to the council as they have a "duty of care" to ensure that there bailiffs are lawful. Clearly they dont care but if you at least write to tham and explain what the bailiffs are doing they will hvae to answer and if you do take it to court then you will ahve their response too.

 

i am one of the lucky ones as i found out yesterday that i won by default as my council took too long to respond

 

but i did put a lot of effort into providing evidence to go with my stat dec as to not receiving the ticket

 

hence i didnt have to pay and the bailiff removed my clamp but i ahve had no access to my car for over a month and its really not on!!

 

although i can stop here (as i have won) i am so apalled as to the fundamentally flawed proces that is parking legislation that i am determined to influence a change in the current laws.....so i have started a petition........unfortunately i am not allowed to post that link here as i am a newbie but if you google search my username and bailiff petition you will find it.

 

i ahve been told that whatever you do, if you beleive you are right and think u can prove it in court, dont pay the bailiff as its v difficult to get ur money back

[dbcc33]

sorry if u've already said this but i cant find the indo---did you pay the bailiff or not?

[bladeboy]

I wouldnt worry too much about the bailiffs complaints procedure, theres no legal requirement to follow it. An aggrieved party has a right to start a claim in the county court. A lot quicker too, and more reliable than the Form 4 complaints route.

 

Indeed, on the basis of what I have read on here would just go the 'small claims' county court route and not be exposed to costs - apparently going the form 4 route can expose you to costs and it seems there is little to be gained from complaining there. I went the county court route with a bailiff firm and won.

[dbcc33]

bladeboys suggestion is a good one---if i hadnt been lucky at this stage i would do the same, but i would still write to the council first. many people think that the council are liable as they are teh ones who authorise the bailiffs. however even though i won i intend to claim for costs for not having my car and i will also do that via small claims but i am first writing to the council to give them a chance to reply. there are also council ombadsmen you can write to if you are not satisfied by the councils response. it seems as if the Form 4 complaint is not teh best route to go down and seems you can only win for what the court deem as a really serious certificate revoking offence. clearly they dont consider EXTORTION serious enough!

[tomtubby]

I listed ten valid points where Marstons and thier Bailiff were at fault.I will post my form 4 complaint as it is complicated to say the least.This may take some time as i am not very au fait with computers,in brief this is what occurred.HMCS wrote to me to inform me that they had passed my account to the bailiffs for collection.Irang HMCS and they gave me Marstons number,i rang Marstons to establish what to do next.They were nasty and unhelpful and informed me that unless i payed the full amount within a fortnight the bailliff would attend.At this point i informed her that i did not live at the adresse they had for me and that it was my mothers address and a c/o adress only so it will be necessary to give prior notice of when the baillif was going to call due to the fact that my mother is 78 and in poor health having just come out of hospital and shouldnt have to deal with my issues.It would also ensure that i would be there.She then informed that wasnt how it worked.So the bailiff turned up at my mums without any prior notice and promptly took 500 pounds of my mother for a fine that is over 7 years old and which i have served a prison sentence for.Now if thats acceptable in the eyes of a JUDGE then what hope have i got.All i wanted was for Marstons to reimburse my mother and make arrangements to deal with myself.Too much to ask ???

 

Sadly, so many times this identical situation happens and this is so very worrying. It is a shame that you even gave the company ADVANCE WARNING that a pensioner would be at home on her own. A BAD MOVE.

 

The bailiff will simply say that she made a "voluntary" payment.

 

What you MUST do is to WRITE ( and not phone) a Formal Letter of Complain and this needs to be sent to the attention of the Court Manager and copied to the Fines Manager at the Magistrates Court that issued the fine. Each month, there a meeting at the various courts to hear such complaints and frankly, if no compliant is made, then NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

 

If anything, you have a DUTY to ensure that a Complaint is made.

 

PS: There is no needs to make a Form 4 Complaint. This is a clear cut case where the complaint MUST be made to the Magistrate Court.

[outlawla]

Perhaps we can all get together and file a joint complaint to the ministry of justice about Mr Appletons competence to hear complaints about bailiffs.

 

Seems like a good idea, though I've been down that route on an individual basis. After months of delays, eventually getting the following address.

 

Anyone thinking of putting a complaint in about Appleton and his dodgy Rossendale's bailiff decisions; this is the contact I've been sent by the ministry of justice.

 

The courts area directors' office

 

Gill Hague

 

The courts area directors' office

The sessions House

Lancaster Road

Preston

Lancs.

PR1 2DP

 

Tel: 01772 272 820

[dbcc33]

sounds like a good idea--if there are enough of youwith expereince of this particular judge, then i think its a must that you all complain---unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how u look at it!) i dont have first hand expereince with this as i received some good advice not to file the Form 4 and had my warrant revoked before having to take it this far.

 

however, because not only this, but other aspects of traffic enforcement legislation is so fundamentally flawed, i started a general petition against the use of bailiffs for this purpose as a mass complaint to the MoJ......so would be grateful for as many signatures as possible on this to help support all the people that are attempting to change the legislation........

 

 

http://www.petitiononline.com/dbcc33/petition.html

[outlawla]

......, i started a general petition against the use of bailiffs for this purpose as a mass complaint to the MoJ......so would be grateful for as many signatures as possible on this to help support all the people that are attempting to change the legislation........

 

 

http://www.petitiononline.com/dbcc33/petition.html

 

Thanks for devising this petition, will definitely sign and hope all CAG'ers will too.

[dbcc33]

thanks for the support outlaw........have had a quick look at the thisis.....websites, not sure i can actually submit a comment that contains a weblink though........