Another Council Tax Bailiff Post

[eric54]

I have just had a visit from Bristow & Sutor regarding council tax I have not paid for the last 18 months. The bailiff has issued me a Notice of Seizure of Goods, Inventory of Goods Seized and Memorandum of Amounts Due. I am going to send them this reply to Notice of Seizure with a letter I found on another site. Just have a few questions though.

 

1. On letters from Bristow & Sutor, the bailiffs name is not mentioned nor his certificate number. Is this legal?

2. I have a van on contract hire from VW. Told him that it was on contract hire but he has included it on Inventory of Goods seized and been charged 2 levy fees. He said he would check if on contract hire with the office later. Surely these fees are not legal and he should have checked before doing this? Also been charged a redemption of goods fee??

 

I now have 5 days before they return. Going to speak direct to council to arrange repayment plan but the bailiffs have angered me and want to put them in their place.

 

Thanks

[ploddertom]

I have just had a visit from Bristow & Sutor regarding council tax I have not paid for the last 18 months. The bailiff has issued me a Notice of Seizure of Goods, Inventory of Goods Seized and Memorandum of Amounts Due. I am going to send them this reply to Notice of Seizure with a letter I found on another site. Just have a few questions though.

 

1. On letters from Bristow & Sutor, the bailiffs name is not mentioned nor his certificate number. Is this legal? His name should be legible, you may ask to see his Cerification as he carries that separately.

2. I have a van on contract hire from VW. Told him that it was on contract hire but he has included it on Inventory of Goods seized and been charged 2 levy fees. He said he would check if on contract hire with the office later. Surely these fees are not legal and he should have checked before doing this? Yes he is allowed to charge the levy fee as he is also allowed toassume the goods are yours, it is your responsibility now to advise them of the status of the vans via proof of their hire, incidentally he is trying it on with multiple fees anyway Also been charged a redemption of goods fee?? As he has not re,oved any goods - not valid, as the goods aren't yours - not valid anyway.

I now have 5 days before they return. Going to speak direct to council to arrange repayment plan but the bailiffs have angered me and want to put them in their place.

 

Thanks

 

I don't doubt they have charged 2 x Visit fees & 2 x Levy Fees as well as others. As the goods are not yours you must write and advise them ASAP and ask them to remove the Levy Fees and all associated costs. If this is his first visit he is only allowed to charge £24-50.

 

I suspect that as you have notpaid anything for 18 months the Council will refuse to deal with you. The alternative is to pay them online via their website. You are liable to pay some Bailiff fees so budget for this, the Council are obliged to pay the Bailiff fees first before allocating any extra to your outstanding account. It may be imperative you start todo this ASAP as you may be looked upon as "wilful refusal to pay" as it has gone so long and you may ultimately run the risk of a Committal Hearing. If you pay online it makes the Bailiffs grumpy.

 

PT

[impecunious]

Hi eric54

 

If you want to establish name of attending bailiff, etc. you can simply ask for a breakdown of their charges in writing:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully"

 

 

This will establish the identity of the bailiff and B&S will be required to qualify their charges - including the 2 levy fees which you say have been charged.

 

Obviously if the van is on contract hire and it is not your property, the levy will subsequently be invalid. What else is listed on the Inventory of Goods Seized? Some of them might also be invalid. The more ammunition you have against them the better.

 

Redemption fee is also invalid - they're just front-loading their unlawful charges. They can't charge you a visit fee and a levy fee at the same time - it's either one or the other. Once they accept the fact that the levy fee is unlawful. they'll replace it with a visit fee.

 

There is no legal requirement for you to talk to or deal with the bailiff, so just remember to keep your windows and doors shut and locked, put away any and all garden items that aren't cemented down and move any other vehicles you may have away from your property. If they can't perform a valid levy, they can only lawfully charge you for 1st and 2nd visit fees if your Council Tax remains in arrears. £24.50 and £18.00 I.E. If you pay the full amount outstanding after the 1st visit and before their 2nd visit, only the 1st visit fee is payable.

 

Just pay what you can to the Council via their online payment facility, using your CT reference number(s) for the relevant year's outstanding CT and continue to pay regularly (each week is better as this very quickly establishes a repayment history). It is a priority debt, so pay as much as you can reasonably afford and bear in mind that the next financial year's CT bills start again from April.

 

After you have made the 1st payment - quote receipt number - and write to advise Council what your arrangement is. Stick to it religiously. Tell the council what you're doing in writing, don't ask them whether you can do it on the phone! I personally managed to negotiate a payment of just £12.50/month in respect of arrears of just over £1,200 - it was all I could reasonably afford and sustain. I refused to speak the backroom staff and went for the head honcho instead. I did have to fight to do it but I'll be paying my arrears over the next eight years! That suits me!

 

I would advise against speaking directly to the Council first, as their backroom CT staff might be outsourced (direct to bailiff company) and you'll just keep hitting a brick wall. They tend to work from a very rigid script.

 

Good luck and get back to us if you need any more advice.

 

 

Impecunious!

[eric54]

Thanks for the replies.Is there a 'template' letter I can send to Council or just write yourself?

[impecunious]

Personally, I'd just easier to write this one. A very simple letter - this is the situation and this is how I propose to deal with it.

 

For my own benefit, I just download an income and expenditure budget sheet from The National Debtline website - it's allows quite generous and realistic amounts to be allocated to everyday living expenses, etc and calculates everything for you. Once it's done, it gives you an accurate overall picture of your finances - it's amazing to discover what we actually need to budget for versus what we think we spend - and you can then make a realistic and sustainable offer to the council each week.

 

This information is purely for your benefit, only a judge could ask for that information, not a bailiff and certainly not a DCA.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Impecunious!

[eric54]

Going to send this today. Is it ok?

 

Bath & North East Somerset Council Authority appears to have instructed you to recover Council Tax arrears and I am receipt of your document of 9 February 2011.

This notice directs that you are not being given entry to my home or to levy goods contained within. This notice revokes your entitlement to charge a Walking Possessions fee and an Attending to Remove fee. Please be advised that if your fees are found to contradict prescribed regulations namely Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, you may be liable for criminal prosecution under section 1 to 5 of Fraud Act 2006, and I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint at the certificating court.

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt in whole and will make payment of £10 each week for 108 weekly installments. This may seem a long time but it’s the only offer I can afford and it allows me to pay future Council Tax liabilities without falling into arrears. I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt and will pay the money direct to the council. The first payment was made on 9 February 2011.

Your fees quoted on your document appear to be inconsistent with prescribed regulations, please provide me with a breakdown of your fees so we can make a more informed decision on whether they are lawful.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information. For the avoidance of doubt that in your failure to provide me that breakdown in seven days, I will automatically pass the matter to the certificating court and to the police for criminal investigation under Sections 1 to 5 of the Fraud Act 2006.]

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property, if a bailiff threatens me with getting a locksmith without a levy or tries to break & enter my home, I will automatically make a complaint to the police and the bailiff may receive a criminal record and will not be allowed to continue trading as a certificated bailiff.

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served on you by the ordinary course of post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 and therefore your responsibility and it's in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

[impecunious]

Bailiffs are notoriously stupid! For starters, I'd just request a simple breakdown of their charges and await their response.

 

There's little point firing off on all cylinders first!

 

Then start to make regular online weekly payments to the Council -- write to advise your intentions.

 

Put away anything the bailiffs might levy up, lock it away - keep doors windows/shut/locked and don't talk to them.

 

Sit down, relax and have a cuppa! Play the long game.

 

It's always worked for me.

 

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

Impecunious!

[eric54]

Had a response from the Bailiffs rejecting my proposal and claiming their fees are lawful (they are not!).They want payments of £100 a week! No chance of that happening. Council also replied stating that account is now in hands of bailiffs. What should I do now?

[impecunious]

Did the bailiffs send you the breakdown of charges you requested? (Not just state that they were "lawful"?) I'd press them again on that point.

 

You DON'T have to deal with the Bailiffs - just continue to pay the Council directly online (they CAN'T refuse payment - no matter what they say). It might be that your council tax services are outsourced to a bailiff's firm - that's why they keep saying DEAL WITH THE BAILIFFS!

 

Telephone the council again and speak to someone higher up the foodchain - you'll get more sense.

 

Bailiffs can't tell you what to pay!

 

I mentioned my case earlier in your posting, so I know it's possible to tell the Council what you can realistically pay towards your arrears on a monthly basis.

 

Remember too, that 2011-12's CT bill is due out soon. Make sure that you pay that regularly each month, so you don't get into trouble again. (I know - word to the wise now!)

 

DON'T stress yourself - work out what you can realistically afford each month for your arrears and pay the council direct.

 

You'll have to batten down the hatches. The bailiffs won't give up easily but remember they can only charge for TWO visits - £24.50 and £18.00 IF they can't levy on any of your goods!!! I know they've "levied" already but that was invalid.

 

They'll soon get fed up and eventually return the account to the Council NULLO BUONO.

 

You just have to be bloody-minded!!

 

Good luck!

 

 

Impecunious!

Edited February 17, 2011 by impecunious

[eric54]

Got a reply back from the Council rejecting my repayment proposal and asking for £35 a week. This comment wound me up!

 

'Furthermore, cigarettes are not a priority expense and this money should be used to clear your debt with us first'

 

There is no way I can afford £35 a week. What should I do now?

[impecunious]

Got a reply back from the Council rejecting my repayment proposal and asking for £35 a week. This comment wound me up!

 

'Furthermore, cigarettes are not a priority expense and this money should be used to clear your debt with us first'

 

There is no way I can afford £35 a week. What should I do now?

 

I guess you sent the council an income and expenditure schedule for them to know that you buy ciggies. I'd never supply them with that information unless they were threatening to go for an attachment to earnings.

 

Try looking on The National Debtline website and use their I&E form - it's very good. Recalculate your figures and see what you come up with - this is just for your benefit.

 

The council can't refuse payments for Council Tax, so just start making weekly online payments to them (making sure you apply the payments to your outstanding account) and pay what YOU can afford. You really do have to persevere. I did and I as stated before I only pay £12.50/month for o/s council tax of just over £1200.

 

Keep paying this sum religiously. If the council decide to take you to court they're going to look really silly if you've got a record of making weekly payments. Only a judge can decide how much you have to pay and ask you to complete an I&E form

 

Bear in mind this year's CT bill is about to land on your doorstep if it hasn't done already and council tax is a PRIORITY debt.

 

Keep us updated as your progress. You're not alone.

 

 

 

Impecunious!

[eric54]

Thanks Impecunious. Great help again