Vodafone awful customer service ruining life and admitting they dont care, can do something but wont!!

[Ruskie1]

Hi thanks for the response but the details are inaccurate, do you work for vodafone?

firstly we purchased a new dongle it was the new sim vodafone did NOT send on multiple requests even whilst payment was up to date, so my husband used a pay as you go one.

secondly no letter was sent as was confirmed by vodafone who stated the did not contact us as had no contact details- although found them to default us- first contact we had

thirdly nobody is asking anyone to absorb our mistake at any cost to any other customers so not sure why you put that as its clear from the thread (work for vodafone?) as stated multiple times my husband once notified was more than happy to pay up to date straight away and vodafone are more than happy to continue with us as customers just not remove the default. The only one having to absorb costs here is us, the everyman and it is us who can not and should not have to absorb Vodafones mistakes:mad2:

lastly the account it comes out of shows no bounced dd at all and therefore I think anyone who works full time can be forgiven for scanning over bank statements seeing no notification of failed dd and therefore not noticing if a payment hasnt come out- normally good customer services would notify you and get this resolved, guess not how things work out vodafone. Again customer services could have got in contact here out of nothing more than being bothered, good customer services.

 

The issue is to be clear we were NOT sent a new sim, we were not notified a payment had been missed and as soon as we were we tried immediately to rectify it and were met with a customer services person on a power trip, who was unhelpful and admitted whilst he could help did not want to.

Whilst I appreciate you have dealt with many people, excuses,etc this type of attitude is where I actually believes lies the issue. We are not many people we are individuals and vodafone should treat customers and cases as individuals not judge everyone before even contacting them and when did customer services become I will judge you, threaten you and do what I like even though it is you all paying my wages??

It is quite clear as the first "customer services" rep stated he wasnt going to help and if we went around him he would personally block it, fantastic to see the type of people vodafone employ, Vodafone in its true form and fantastic to see such quality customer services. We have escalated this and will not just accept this because they deal with hundreds of issues a day, that is why they have a job!

[Ruskie1]

Thanks Silverfox, sent this to vodafone, they dont care have escalated the complaint please see below:

 

Hi, Jenny/Lee/Holly,

 

I write this email by way of trying to get this issue sorted out – I think we can all agree that Mistakes have been made by both parties and that we both want a resolution - I think its easy to agree that a default is unfair as it denotes my lack of intention or ability to pay a credit agreement and to serve to all would be lenders out there that I am not to be trusted for 6 years (I could be dead in less) which is not true given the fact that I had no knowledge of any account issues until recently when I did respond as soon as humanly possible.

 

With this in mind I contacted the ICO to get some guidance and information on my predicament and they offered the following:

 

Time framework

Although there will be some flexibility in the definition of a breakdown, we believe there should be general rules for the minimum period of arrears which should exist before a default can be filed. Equally there should be a maximum period after which, if anything is to be recorded with a credit reference agency, a default must be filed. The following are in line with the practices currently adopted by most lenders.

• Accounts should not be routinely filed as being in default where full payments or those due under a rescheduled agreement are fewer than three consecutive months in arrears.

• Accounts should normally be filed as being in default where those payments due have not been received for six months.

 

Now obviously I had a default issued after 3 months – so on this alone the default is unjust given that I had no prior notice of account issues.

 

This passage below was stated in response by the ICO to the details of my situation:

 

The issue of a formal default notice is a matter that falls under the Consumer Credit Act 1976 (the “CCA”). As we do not regulate the relevant sections of the CCA, this is not a matter that I am able to advise on. However, for the purposes of the DPA, we would expect an individual’s credit history to accurately reflect their ability (or inclination) to repay any credit they are provided with. In most cases, the question will simply be a matter of whether the individual in question is liable for an outstanding amount in line with the terms and conditions of their account. If this is the case, then there is usually little we can do to have the default removed, assuming that the account has been defaulted in line with our default guidance.

However, where the amount owed is relatively small and the lender has not taken steps to inform the individual that there was still an outstanding amount owed (i.e. the individual is likely to have immediately paid the debt had they been made aware of it), it is arguable that the default is unfair, as it does not accurately reflect the individual’s credit worthiness.

 

As you will see from both Passages it would seem that Vodafone have acted inappropriately given the fact that as soon as I received contact from CapQuest regarding an issue with my Vodafone account I acted immediately to resolve the situation which should reflect the fact that I have had and still have every intention to pay for the services received.

 

 

This is taking a long time to resolve, and I’m sure you all have better things to do with your time, in the interim I am still receiving threatening letters from Capquest who want to give me a CCJ as well as a default, what lovely company Vodafone keep, so can someone please come back to me with a common sense solution before Capquest decide to reclaim the land my house is built on for what is all in all a rather small sum of money anyway.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Response;

 

Thanks for getting back to us.

 

I’ve been speaking with the relevant department regarding this and your account has been investigated further. They have advised that they have received a letter from you regarding this and they will be responding accordingly.

 

In the mean time, I have some further information to provide you with following my contact with them on this matter.

 

The outcome of their investigation is that you remain liable for the charges including the early cancellation charge as you were in commitment until the 20th January 2012.

 

They have confirmed that the default is valid and cannot be removed.

 

Once the full balance is paid then the default will be updated to show as satisfied but will remain on your credit file for 6 years from the date of default.

 

They will be contacting you in writing to confirm this which you should receive in the next week.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jenny

Web Relations Team

Vodafone UK

[Ruskie1]

also please note no apology from vodafone for the first customer services rep's attitude either obviously ok with it

[lawbunny]

Ruskie, I appreciate what you have said but I was taking my details from the email you recieved from the Vodafone customer care team above which states they did send out a letter and also a new sim card. Also, I have never worked for Vodafone.

 

I think you have misunderstood me regarding costs etc. I meant that credit files must be a true reflection of a person's credit history so as other institutions can correctly judge that person's ability to take on and repay any other credit. Your credit file shows that you did not pay a Vodafone bill and up until this date still have not paid that or the termination charge. You mst remember that for the past 6 months Vodafone has been at a loss of this amount, and numerous other amounts from other customers in the same position. This amount is always balanced off in higher charges for all other customers. This is why credit files should be correct, as other lenders should be aware that this does in fact add to your risk, whether you agree with that or not.

 

I do not think there is anything wrong with my view (developed through years of experience) that more often than not peole are trying to weasle out of paying. I am quite sure however in your case that this is an honest mistake, after all it does happen sometimes, but you must understand that YOU were also responsible (and if I remember correctly it was a problem caused by moving banks and thus really Vodafone were not responsible, if anything it was your bank), and Vodafone are correct in that the default it correct as your bill was not paid and has remained unpaid for months now. Your credit file is a true reflection of this.

 

I do wish it were possible for companies to deal with every single customer as an individual, but they do so as far as possible. They cannot become intimately involved in your life, especially not for a £40 a month contract. The customer care team do however seem to be doing all the can for you.

 

Additionally, if what you have said about the original agent is correct then it will be on the call recording and he will have been severely disciplined, if not fired. But generally they would not inform you about internal disciplinaries, as is true of most companies. Although I do think an apology is in order if what you have said is correct as that type of behaviour from a customer service agent is true.

 

Finally, I would appreciate it if you would be kind enough to recognise when someone is trying to help you, instead of simply getting your hackles up because what they are telling you is not what you want to hear.

 

The customer is not always completely right I am afraid.

[locutus]

The issue of a formal default notice is a matter that falls under the Consumer Credit Act 1976 (the “CCA”). As we do not regulate the relevant sections of the CCA, this is not a matter that I am able to advise on. However, for the purposes of the DPA, we would expect an individual’s credit history to accurately reflect their ability (or inclination) to repay any credit they are provided with. In most cases, the question will simply be a matter of whether the individual in question is liable for an outstanding amount in line with the terms and conditions of their account. If this is the case, then there is usually little we can do to have the default removed, assuming that the account has been defaulted in line with our default guidance.

However, where the amount owed is relatively small and the lender has not taken steps to inform the individual that there was still an outstanding amount owed (i.e. the individual is likely to have immediately paid the debt had they been made aware of it), it is arguable that the default is unfair, as it does not accurately reflect the individual’s credit worthiness.

 

The customer credit act has no bearing on mobile contracts. They are service contracts (IE provide a service) not credit (IE the sale of money). Also there is no "formal default notice" as it is not a formal default. You agreed to Vodafone sharing your payment details with the credit reference agencies when you took out the contract. The fact is that some lenders view missed payments of a mobile contract the same as a default.

 

The responsibility of paying the bill is well trodden ground, and as always its the consumer that loses out Keep the discussion going with the webteam, and hopefully they can find some goodwill to get this oversight rectified.

[2Grumpy]

The customer credit act has no bearing on mobile contracts. They are service contracts (IE provide a service) not credit (IE the sale of money). Also there is no "formal default notice" as it is not a formal default. You agreed to Vodafone sharing your payment details with the credit reference agencies when you took out the contract. The fact is that some lenders view missed payments of a mobile contract the same as a default.

 

The responsibility of paying the bill is well trodden ground, and as always its the consumer that loses out Keep the discussion going with the webteam, and hopefully they can find some goodwill to get this oversight rectified.

 

All phone companies have this in their T&Cs. This is a one-sided relationship. The phone companies seem to use the threat of a default as a form of blackmail and not agree to remove it "because it is an accurate reflection..." - in their opinion - they are judge and jury.

 

The new SIM obviously wasn't received - the OP says that tthey were using PAYG while they were waiting for this, so it's not much of a stretch to see that maybe their first letter wasn't received either.

 

I must admit that I couldn't follow what Vodaphone were suggesting in terms of money owed, but I don't think that they could recover that amount if they took the OP to court - they would have to show their actual losses, which I suspect would be a proportion of the dongle price if it was free / subsidised, but that would probably be covered by the time when they were charging but not providing a service (I suspect that the sim was barred while the bill was unpaid).

 

Vodaphone haven't answered explained why the OP says that there was nothing wrong with the DD as far as the bank was concerned

 

Also the communications from Vodaphone for taking this action seem a little sparse

• 24/08/2010 – Direct Debit failed

• 24/08/2010 – Collections letter sent to advise of failed Direct Debit and overdue balance.

• 07/12/2010 – Account cancelled due to no payment

• 12/01/2011 – Letter sent to advise of the default

 

I hope that the letter to advise of the default gave notice that they would apply a default if this was not resolved by a date in a few weeks time (similar to a credit agreement), rather than a "we have done it"

 

When you consider that the OP says they were not receiving the letters this sounds a little harsh (including the default letter after the event).

 

I also think that the "default" registered should not exceed the arrears outstanding at the time, e.g. 3 months rental in this case, similar to the way credit defaults work, rather than the outstanding + "cancellation charges".

 

Although Vodaphone are offering to reopen the account for £165 and only mark the default as settled, the OP received nothing for most of this, plus they paid for PAYG usage while Vodaphone were charging them for the service that they weren't receiving. In my opinion Vodaphone should be subtracing any money paid for PAYG usage from the £165 (and then considering whether that amount would have warranted a default).

[locutus]

The DD failing is a point that needs to be addressed (DD mandates can be canceled or go missing whilst changing banks, I've seen it happen when I worked for Barclay's and I suspect this is the case here. We always told the account holder to check the DD's were all set up correctly after the change of accounts had occurred.) however that was in August. More than 3 months later and the OP had still not rectified this. It's the OP's responsibility to ensure the bill is paid, and that Vodafone have the correct address information for them.

 

It is an unfair situation, but one that is agreed to via a contract by the OP.

[2Grumpy]

The DD failing is a point that needs to be addressed (DD mandates can be canceled or go missing whilst changing banks, I've seen it happen when I worked for Barclay's and I suspect this is the case here. We always told the account holder to check the DD's were all set up correctly after the change of accounts had occurred.) however that was in August. More than 3 months later and the OP had still not rectified this. It's the OP's responsibility to ensure the bill is paid, and that Vodafone have the correct address information for them.

 

It is an unfair situation, but one that is agreed to via a contract by the OP.

 

I agree about DDs. Apart from anything else, just like companies can send the same file twice, they can also fail to send requests. Presumably banks can also fail to send the money when they receive the request & the cash is in the account.

 

Likewise letters do get lost sometimes, (or failed to be posted)

 

I don't see anything about the OP changing address or banks.

 

Although Vodaphone say that it is up to the customer to pay their bill, there is an onus on the business when a DD mandate exists.

 

I would suggest that Vodaphone's efforts were a little on the inadequate side.

 

I also know that lots of people don't check their bank statements carefully (I know that my son was charged for something for months without his knowledge along with bank charges being added),. On the other hand my wife does check ours (I don't) and has spotted duplicate withdrawals / missed payments (on unchanged DDs - not our fault)

 

Although all of these terms are in the agreement that the OP signed, that doesn't make those terms fair, especially as all providers insist on this.

[locutus]

Hi all,

 

Something else has shown up- seems vodafone had switched off our service and not sent out replacement sim and our payments were still up to date! Then a month later a dd was missed(husband changed banks) no one notified us at all perhaps as they were not providing the service anyway?. Vodafone claim they had no contact details for us but managed to default us at our address? All a big mess they, including the web team refuse to fix please see below happy for us to remain a customer but wont remove default. Also registered a default for 600£ + but state "legitimate" amount as 100 plus below.

 

Hi ,

Thank you for your response, as neither Jenny or Lee are here today I have picked up your email in their absence.

We will not be able replace the lost dongle and as you did not have insurance for it, you can however purchase a new dongle and we can send you a new SIM so you can use the allowance you are paying for.

If you are willing to take up Jenny's earlier proposal then we will need you to clear the £165.12 before we can reinstate the account. The payment will need to be taken by credit or debit card. Me, Lee or Jenny can call you back to take the payment and finalize the reinstatement.

The default would still stand as the outstanding balance is legitimate, once paid however we will amend the default to show you have settled the arrears.

If you are happy for us to do this please provide the best time to call you when you will have your card ready to settle the £165.12 payment required for us to resolve this.

Or if you have anymore questions let me know.

Thanks

Holly

Web Relations

Vodafone UK

 

We're always looking for feedback on how we're handling queries for our customers, so if you want to leave any comments on how I've handled your query today, then you can pop on here and complete the quick survey. I’d greatly appreciate any feedback to ensure that I’ve been offering the best service I can for our eForum customers.

 

--Original Message--

From:

Date: 15/02/2011 16:42:17

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: FAO Jenny - WRT135 [#5772663]

Hi Jenny,

 

I would love to get this resolved in full – the issue I’m having is that I now have a default, for something that hasn’t been my fault.

You point out below the bar was replaced no dongle sent or service turned back on yet Vodafone still took payment then your next note is payment refused –still no service up from Vodafone here?

When you had sent letters out according to your records I didn’t receive them

 

As Vodafone customer services told me last week they didn’t have my address or contact numbers which is why when I received something from capquest (the default) it was the first I knew of any issues.

I’m not doubting somewhere in the Vodafone archives my address and details exist (they should I provided them at the application stage) as I have received a letter from debt collectors – just nothing from Vodafone.

 

In any case as previously stated I want the account up and running as should be including the elusive dongle !

 

Are you going to remove the default and allow the account to go back to how it was previously?

Regards

 

 

 

From: Customer Care [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 15 February 2011 15:09

To:

Subject: FAO Jenny - WRT135 [#5772663]

 

 

Re: 681557522

Hi

 

I'm contacting you on behalf of Lee following the post on CAG.

I completely understand the concern that this situation will be causing and I'd like to help resolve this for you as quickly as possible.

Firstly I'd like to clarify what has happened on your account since June 2010:

• 01/06/2010 – A new Direct Debit was set up

• 24/06/2010 – You notified us of your lost dongle so your account was suspended

• 29/06/2010 – The bar was lifted so that a new SIM could be ordered and then the bar was replaced

• 16/07/2010 – Payment received of £39.99 by Direct Debit

• 24/08/2010 – Direct Debit failed

• 24/08/2010 – Collections letter sent to advise of failed Direct Debit and overdue balance.

• 07/12/2010 – Account cancelled due to no payment

• 12/01/2011 – Letter sent to advise of the default

• 07/02/2011 – You called into our Collections Team and were advised that the balance is correct and outstanding.

The total outstanding balance on your account is £613.80 including VAT. This consists of an early cancellation charge totaling £448.68.

As we didn't receive a payment towards the account since the 16th July 2010 the balance is correct.

I do however appreciate the frustration you're feeling at the moment so to resolve this we can arrange the following:

We credit your account with £448.68 covering the cancellation fee leaving £165.12 for you to pay.

Once the £165.12 has been paid, we can then reinstate your account and set up a new Direct Debit and allow the contract to continue on it's original terms.

Should you wish for the account to remain cancelled then the cancellation charge will still be applicable due to the full contract length not being fulfilled as agreed.

I look forward to your reply so that we can get this resolved.

Kind regards,

 

Jenny

Web Relations Team

 

I highlighted the bits in blue that make me believe the customer had changed address and changed banks.

[2Grumpy]

I highlighted the bits in blue that make me believe the customer had changed address and changed banks.

 

Must look through to see what to do about useless opticians - or maybe its the grey stuff between my ears!

[locutus]

In your defense it doesn't say that these issues were the cause or even contributed to it. All these things seem to conspire together, and as I said above, it's always the customer loses out. Our legal rights get erroded and the regulations set to protect us don't end up being worth the paper they're printed on.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Ruskie1 and all,

 

After reading through the thread since I posted on 8th February I can see that quite a bit has gone on while I've been away.

 

In regard to the customer service aspects of the concerns raised here I did acknowledge these in my initial post and I will ensure that they are addressed internally as a training issue.

 

Ruskie1, although I can't really comment on the specifics of the Direct Debit, internal debt recovery and credit file concerns you have without having reviewed the case personally; I will take a look at what's happened here and as soon as I'm fully up to speed with this I'll come back to you as quickly as possible.

 

Best wishes,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[Ruskie1]

Hi All, Thanks for all your help and advice :-)will wait to see what Lee comes back with before our next move hopefully someone at vodafone will use a bit of sense and just get this sorted out for us

[Ruskie1]

Hiya, no change of address just upgraded bank account so dd's were moved over for us no notification of anything failing and the strange thing is vodafone claim they they sent letter notifying then claim had no contact details for us at all which is why they didnt contact us yet they passed them on to capquest to default us. All a bit of a mess1

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Ruskie1,

 

Just a quick update to let you know that I've picked up your most recent emails and will get back to you during the course of the day.

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[Ruskie1]

great i look forward to your response

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Ruskie1,

 

Thanks for your time on the phone last week.

 

It's just a quick update to confirm that I've received your email from Friday and will get back to you again as soon as possible.

 

Best wishes,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[Ruskie1]

Thanks Lee.

[Ruskie1]

Hi Silverfox, I wanted to update you and thank you for your advice so far.

Basically the bank have written us a letter admiting issue internally that led to vodafone not being paid, vodafone havent admitted any wrong doing at all. Apparently looking in to the awful customer services rep but nothing back on this definately not holding breath for an apology . State that default was company policy and done correctly which is extremely concerning for everyone.

So outcome is Vodafone have asked my husband for proof from the bank, credit report/proof he pays his other bills on time, a letter from capquest (the debt collection agency they use) all provided already but they havent said if all this is in order (which it is) they will take default off. This is just so they will look at the case again!!! Hope they are not making my husband jump through hoops for nothing. Will let everyone no what happens when Lee comes back to us

[locutus]

Hiya, no change of address just upgraded bank account so dd's were moved over for us no notification of anything failing and the strange thing is vodafone claim they they sent letter notifying then claim had no contact details for us at all which is why they didnt contact us yet they passed them on to capquest to default us. All a bit of a mess1

Even though the bank failed to transfer the DD mandate properly, and Even though Vodafone didn't notify you the real downside is that if they want to be stubborn the default can remain (all that it shows is your payment history, and as long as that is correct it can still stand!). I'm pretty sure that if you can show Lee that the bank failed to transfer the mandate (and it is something that happened all too often when I worked at Barclay's) I'm sure he'll fight tooth and nail to see the outcome is a fair one to you. You have to think if you were with a different provider, getting any sort of sense would be nigh on impossible. I feel this area should be more tightly regulated than it is the "Direct debit guarantee" offers no protection against the bank fouling up and not paying a debt, the "Consumer Credit Act" doesn't help because you had no credit, the "data protection act" doesn't help as the information is factually correct and that just leaves us consumers with things on our credit file for thinking that a direct debit was the best option To top it all off we have to pay extra to pay by other means!

 

thank you for the update Ruskie, and hope that the hoops do prove fruitful

[2Grumpy]

The Information Commissioner's office won't agree.

 

There is advice that a default should not be registered for a bill that the customer is not aware of that they would have paid had they known about it.

 

This may be Vodaphone policy but it's going to get them into a lot of trouble.

 

Other utilities report to the Credit Reference Agencies so I'm sure that they could see that you pay other bills on time. However that is irrelevant. It is one bill (Vodaphone) that we are talking about & they are trying to muddy the water. You could have your gas, water & electricity cut off, about to get the bailiffs in for non-payment of council tax, evicted for non-payment of mortgage & have CCJs for credit defaults, but that still wouldn't be an excuse for Vodaphone to add theirs. They should only be looking at your past payment history with them.

 

Contact the Information Commissioner's office

 

Vote with your feet as soon as your contract ends, then look at the CRA thread about default removal if these people don't remove the default, apologizes for what they have done & compensates you for any loss.

 

It's strange that they can find your address after they have registered the default but aren't prepared to put the effort in to finding your address before then.

 

Of course they said it was valid because there is no regulation of this - time for a campaign for a change maybe to get some consumer rights. Yes, perhaps they did follow their flawed company procedures but that doesn't excuse their actions.

 

At the moment there is just Information Commissioners guidance which this obviously goes against

 

Of course it's not valid. I'm sure that Vodaphone know that its not. Perhaps they are frightened cases against them for damages if they admit they are invalid ...

Edited March 8, 2011 by 2Grumpy

[locutus]

There is no default. There is a flag on your credit file that payment is more than a couple of months late. As such, the CRA's will mark this information on your credit file. Lenders will then see this information and it is as damaging as a default. This is why Vodafone do not need to send a default notice. All Vodafone do is report payment history, no logging of defaults. If the payment information is correct, you are stuffed unless you can find some goodwill. As such, I feel Vodafone are probably the BEST people to be with as there is Lee on this site. If this problem was with any other mobile supplier, the OP would be up a certain creek without a certain rowing implement.

[Ruskie1]

Hi nope definately a default will get a copy of the credit file and post that bit

[Ruskie1]

Thanks so much for this, not had anything back other than we have it since all the paperwork went over showing everything they asked for on friday so will definately get my husband to go down this route

[Ruskie1]

yep definately a big D on credit file from vodaphone we never received a default letter at all we only found out about this by looking at credit file when applied for credit for mortgage and was turned down so went through mail when got back from holiday and had a letter from capquest saying we have your debt now lets make an arrangement to pay, called straight away and thats when this whole mess came to light, clearly stating happy to pay

Then quite a mix from vodafone -we didnt have your details so couldnt send anything, now is you spoke to wrong departments we did send letters you just didnt receive them?? then pay the £100 plus pounds you owe and we will get account back on but not remove default - which I might add is for 700 plus?? you didnt pay for 7months but you only owe for 3?? last letter was now you have to pay 700 plus default staying, again let me state no apology for the way the "customer services" rep spoke to my husband. Also still not received the sim card all this cost actually relates to!!

Husband spoke to Lee, sent everything requested, even documentation nothing to do with vodafone last friday and waiting for Lee's response will let you all no what happens next and thanks for everyones support and advice