Old debt - fallen off my credit file - can I get defaulted again? Should I stop paying?

[twinkle1977]

Hi

 

I paid DLC / Hillesden for an old Egg loan for years, but CCA'd them in 2008.

 

They have now sent me through the CCA agreement (not sure if its a signature or an X in their section) and a long awaited for statement of account. It shows the original loan had PPI on it and that I had paid back the value of the loan (not interest) before I defaulted on payments.

 

With regards to ownership of the debt - I was sent a photocopy of a generic deed of assignment 'this DCA now have ownership of this account' (not stating my account or any details on it). Is it enough or should it be a little more specific?

 

I made a few years payments to the DCA - at this point I CCA'd them and not paid them any monies for 3 years.

 

Would you recommend a SAR to see how much they purchased the account for from Egg?

Should I make an offer of payment to clear the amount to them?

Should I say clear off - if so, how?

 

Thanks for any advice here As mentioned, the original default of the debt was on my credit file but after six years, dropped off - so as I understand they can't put another black mark against me for it....

[diddydicky]

how much they paid for the debt is irrelevant.

 

the creditors signature on the agreement - is also irrelevant - since this is not required in response to a s78 request it is also irrelevant if what they claim is an application form and contains all of the prescribed terms of the agreement and your signature

 

how did you get the NOA? have you acknowledge in any communications with either the creditor or the DCA that you have received it?

 

if it was not sent recorded or registered mail then it has not been served (unless you ackowledged receipt of it)

 

 

If the DCA commenced an action as creditor- your simple defence therefore would be that the claim be struck out as they do not have a cause of action

[twinkle1977]

Hi Diddydicky

 

Thanks for your response!! Your queries and my responses below:

 

"how did you get the NOA? have you acknowledge in any communications with either the creditor or the DCA that you have received it?"

It was not sent recorded - and I have not acknowledged it

 

"if it was not sent recorded or registered mail then it has not been served (unless you ackowledged receipt of it)"

Ok - great but what does it mean?

 

"If the DCA commenced an action as creditor- your simple defence therefore would be that the claim be struck out as they do not have a cause of action"

Thanks but I'm not sure what this means either - I ignore all communications from the DCA or do I go back to them and say "you don't have a cause of action"?

[diddydicky]

In order for the original creditor to sell (or assign) the debt to someone else- YOU have to be informed- and the law of property act says that you must be served with the Notice of Assignment- this must be by personal service or by some form of "recorded" delivery (signed for by you).

 

if you are not thus served- then the assignment has not been lawfully completed- so if the claimant in any proceedings against you is not shown as the original creditor- then they have no "cause of action" - in other words they cannot satisfy the court that they are the proper owners of the debt since you were not served properly.

 

thus their claim cannot proceed against you.

 

there may of course be other arguments in defence

 

however if a debtor ACKNOWLEDGES in any dealings with either the creditor or assignee that he has recevied notification of the assignment- then any argument as to it not being served correctly goes out the window since the purpose (to bring it to your attention) has clearly been acheved

 

 

can you post the agreement up for us to see (minus personal detailsw)

[twinkle1977]

Yes - will scan it in at work tomorrow - thanks for your help and come back online tomorrow

[twinkle1977]

After going through 2 x poly pockets of letters about this one subject, I realised that the deed of assignment thing I have is for another account.

 

So I don't have a deed of assignment for this one?

 

What should I do?

 

THANKS

[twinkle1977]

Got letter through today stating 'Notice of Sums in Arrears' on this account.

 

Do I respond? If so, with what? I still haven't got a deed of assignment or anything from Egg stating that DLC / Hillesden are now the people collecting on this account.

 

Any info appreciated

[dx100uk]

who from?

 

this story does not make sence?

if there is no sign of it on your cra then i cant understand how/why you are

 

one paying it,

two getting a notice of arrears on it

 

can we have the complete history of it please

 

something is no right here.

 

dx

[twinkle1977]

Hi

 

Ok - this is an old debt that was on my credit file for many years, but has since dropped off. The default was with Egg.

 

Egg it appears, passed the debt over to DLC aka, Hillesden, aka Ruthbridge Securities.

 

In 2008 I stopped paying them as i had been (I was non the wise in the early days and when someone came through saying I owed them money, I paid it). At this time, in 2008, I sent a CCA to DLC. Since then, every 3 weeks i have been receiving letters from Hillesden stating they were looking into my CCA and would send me the docs.

 

Last month, I got a statement of account through from Hillesden, showing payments made on the original EGG loan and then payments to DLC. Hillesden informed me that now I had received my CCA from them (copy of original paperwork and statement of account) that I should resume payments to them.

 

I received a letter 2 days ago from DLC, stating an amount titled 'NOTICE OF SUM IN ARREARS'.

 

So to clarify - it is no longer on my credit file as the default dropped off after six years.

I had been paying DLC up until March 2008 when the account was in dispute - waiting on CCA paperwork.

Feb 2011 - CCA paperwork sent to me and now, DLC are wanting payment and have sent me the notice of sum in arrears letter.

 

My questions are:

 

1) as I have already been defaulted and this has been on my credit file once, it can't be re-added at a later date, can it?

2) do I need to get a deed of assignment, proving that DLC / Hillesden / Ruthbridge are now the people to chase for this money?

3) what would be the come back on me, if I don't respond to their letters? And should I?

[twinkle1977]

bump

[PriorityOne]

Hi

 

Ok - this is an old debt that was on my credit file for many years, but has since dropped off. The default was with Egg.

 

Egg it appears, passed the debt over to DLC aka, Hillesden, aka Ruthbridge Securities.

 

In 2008 I stopped paying them as i had been (I was non the wise in the early days and when someone came through saying I owed them money, I paid it). At this time, in 2008, I sent a CCA to DLC. Since then, every 3 weeks i have been receiving letters from Hillesden stating they were looking into my CCA and would send me the docs.

 

Last month, I got a statement of account through from Hillesden, showing payments made on the original EGG loan and then payments to DLC. Hillesden informed me that now I had received my CCA from them (copy of original paperwork and statement of account) that I should resume payments to them. What is this paperwork? Is it an application, an agreement or a blank document with/without generic APR, terms & conditions, etc....

 

I received a letter 2 days ago from DLC, stating an amount titled 'NOTICE OF SUM IN ARREARS'. Nothing to worry about with this..... it just serves to remind you that they're still around...

 

So to clarify - it is no longer on my credit file as the default dropped off after six years.

I had been paying DLC up until March 2008 when the account was in dispute - waiting on CCA paperwork.

Feb 2011 - CCA paperwork sent to me and now, DLC are wanting payment and have sent me the notice of sum in arrears letter.

 

They tend to send these arrears notices when the docs. are lacking.... which is why I'm asking what they sent you....

 

My questions are:

 

1) as I have already been defaulted and this has been on my credit file once, it can't be re-added at a later date, can it? In theory, no but in practice, yes.... although you can pull them up over it 'coz they're not meant to.

2) do I need to get a deed of assignment, proving that DLC / Hillesden / Ruthbridge are now the people to chase for this money? No... they either have an enforceable CCA for you or they don't.

3) what would be the come back on me, if I don't respond to their letters? And should I?

 

Don't respond until we can establish what they've sent you. The "Notice of Sums in Arrears" suggests that they don't have the proper docs..... are you able to scan them up; minus personal info? If not, please describe what they've sent you in as much detail as possible.

 

[marcander]

One thing I can tell you is that you definitely cannot be defaulted for the same debt. As you have found out, once 6 years has passed from date of default all references to that debt/account must be removed from all of your credit files. You cannot be defaulted again and contrary to what most DCAs will tell you neither they nor the original creditor can put any details concerning that debt on your credit files once 6 years from default date has passed.

The only thing that could be posted is if a CCJ concerning that debt was obtained, that would appear on your file.

M

[cerberusalert]

It shows the original loan had PPI on it and that I had paid back the value of the loan (not interest) before I defaulted on payments.

Are you aware that you can reclaim the PPI & any unfair charges + Statutory interest?

[dx100uk]

One thing I can tell you is that you definitely cannot be defaulted for the same debt. As you have found out, once 6 years has passed from date of default all references to that debt/account must be removed from all of your credit files. You cannot be defaulted again and contrary to what most DCAs will tell you neither they nor the original creditor can put any details concerning that debt on your credit files once 6 years from default date has passed.

The only thing that could be posted is if a CCJ concerning that debt was obtained, that would appear on your file.

M

 

just to be clear here on SB clocks: it wont be 6yrs from the default date the clock stated ticking, it will be 6yrs from you last financial transaction in/out or the last time you WROTE to them, admitting the debt & signing the letter.

 

the whole account go from the cra then.

 

vanish

 

however, as you made payments until 2008, obv, in this case the default will drop-off as it passes its 6th birthday.

 

dx

[marcander]

I think we may be talking different things here. Statute barring can only occur if 6 years have passed and there has been no communication.

My point is about defaults and credit reference agencies not statute barring.

If you are defaulted then whether you pay the debt off or like me you are still paying on an informal arrangement then after 6 years all reference to the default and the debt/account must come of your credit reference file. All references to the 3 debts I am still paying dropped off my credit files exactly 6 years almost to the day after the date of the defaults. Nothing appears on my files now although I am still paying on arrangement.

 

This regulation was brought in to tip the balance in favour of someone who pays something as against someone who pays nothing for whatever reason. If debtor A pays nothing after a default and then 6 years later has nothing showing on his file then imagine if debtor B pays a small amount every month and 8 years after default is still paying and the credit file reflected this it would put debtor B at a disadvantage.

 

To be clear, whether statute barred or not, all reference to a debt that is defaulted will disappear/drop off your credit file 6 years from the date of the default. If not just get in touch with the credit agency and they must remove it.

M

[dx100uk]

urm.

 

yes i get the diff and apologise if i caused confusion

 

however, if the creditor reports to the cra on your payment history, this will keep the file open, even though, yes, the default will disappear on its 6th birthday

first i've heard of this that the a/c goes after 6yrs even if you continue to pay

seems sillyto me as then what is the point of debtor b paying anything

doesn't seem right.

 

dx

[marcander]

Yes I too thought it was odd that none of my three debts appeared on my files but I got it from the horses mouth (Client Education Manager-Experian).

 

I have just received a "cannot supply CCA" reply from Moorcrap/Eggh and they quote Mcguffick v RBS saying that although it is unenforceable they can continue to post on CRAs. It is however a standard/stock letter and there is nothing on my file, nor will there be. I made a CCA request to Moorcrop/Santandderr 12 months ago and still have received nothing. I witheld payment from last april and still there is nothing on my files.

I believe it was the Information Commissioners Office that decided that 6 years was about right for data protection purposes. It has to come off sometime. I have had my defaults recorded on my files for 6 years and now they are off even though I am still in debt on those accounts.

So, anyone who was defaulted 6 or more years ago, make sure that all reference to that account/debt/default is removed from your credit file. If you find that it is still on then complain to the actual credit ref agency. They will know the date of the default so they will know when it should come off and they will remove it. You don't need to complain to the creditor, just the agency.

Regards to all

M

[dx100uk]

still dont think the account will vanish if you are still paying

i think you have something wrong there

 

yes the defaults, themselves [or any type of marker] will go 6yrs from its birthday, regardless to what you are doing paying or not.

 

dx

[marcander]

I knew I had this somewhere.

I asked Experian why my informal payments did not appear on my cr files nor did any ref to the debts.

here is his reply

 

I have posted this question on another thread and received this reply from the Consumer Education Manager from experian.

 

"Good morning,

 

You are right - defaults can only be registered with the credit reference agencies for six years, regardless of whether and how the debt is subsequently repaid. Simply as that. The defaults definitely can't be re-registered either.

 

You might be a little worried that your continuing regular repayments aren't helping your credit rating now, but as these payments are servicing past 'bad debt' it's much better for you that this information doesn't appear on your report.

 

As long as you have one or two other credit products open and are repaying them on time, your credit rating should be ok.

 

Your repayments will have been reflected on your credit report during the six years the default was registered, but once the six-year period ended the default and any information relating to it will have dropped off your record.

 

Don't forget though that if you approach any of the same lenders for credit in the future, their own internal records probably go back further than six years!"

 

 

That is the reply I received.

 

regards

 

M

[dx100uk]

great

 

p'haps i'm being dim here

didn't ever realise that

 

thanks for the info

 

i'm gonna alert the team too.

 

dx

[marcander]

This is a link to my original question and the answer on "cash questions".

 

It should clear the matter up.

 

http://www.cashquestions.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11463

 

regards

 

M