Ebay : Faulty goods, time limit & postal costs.

[simonB2006]

So, I bought a laptop from ebay, and its all gone pear shaped.

 

From what I will show, I accepted some pretty horrific terms in my eagerness to buy.

So on one hand, I'm not writing with much hope of recouping my losses, more to learn what is and not legal when ebay sellers make up their own custom built t&c's.

 

Sale is dated as 10th Jan.

It was a 'Best Offer' purchase.

£440 + £29.99 Postage.

> 'Seller refurbished'

> 'fully tested and working'

> 'I do not accept returns unless the item arrives faulty or significantly not as described.'

> 'A faulty or damaged item must be reported within 3 days of delivery to qualify for a return.'

> 'You are responsible for any return postage costs'

> 'Any items returned and found to be as described will be refunded minus the cost of postage and minus a handeling fee of 10%'

 

Laptop arrived pretty sharpish, next day as far as I recall.

On day 2, the DVD drive stopped working. I contacted the seller and he offered repair/replace if I sent the drive back to him .. fair enough.

 

Today, 2nd Feb,the machine dies.

Taken it to a shop where it is currently being 'examined'.

(did this as I trust an independant professional more than any ebay seller's own evaluaton)

We do know now, it's not a software issue, it is definately hardare. i.e something physical inside the laptop itself.

I questioned the technican as to how it could work for 3 weeks before dying, and he assured me that this would not be uncommon. (ok, so ask aother computer expert there, I'm just quoting what he said, somethign about heat sinks, liquid spillages ... ?).

Its now being examined at a cost, and he'll give me a full report and quote for repair by end of week.

 

Good news is, the seller has now replied and offered to refund ! Great !!

I should be pleased, after all he originally said all faults should be reported within 3 days.

However, with both the DVD complaint and the final 'dead laptop' complaint .... both times he offers an appology and replacement/refund without quibble.

Smells to me like he knew the whole product was questionable in the first place !?

Still, the law cant be so subjective and emotional i guess.

 

Bad news is this:

Laptop : £440

Postage (to me) : £30

Temporary DVD drive whist awaitinng repair : £20

Cost to get a professional diognosis : £30 (+/-)

Return Postage to Seller : £30

-----------------

Total out = £550

Refund Offered = £440

Loss incurred by me £110

 

Now maybe he didnt agree to the temporary drive, and the professional diagnosis.

I got the drive because seller could not replace whilst he was on holiday.

I got the professional diagnosis when the machine died in case the seller quibbled.

Yet I am narked that because the product was not as described, i.e. "working" , I have incurred these costs.

More tangibly, even with his refund, I will be £60 down on the postage costs, delivery and return.

 

Yes I'm annoyed at myself for going into a deal with such bad terms.

But yes, still annoyed that if the laptop had been delivered 'as described' , i would still have £110 in my pocket.

 

So ... when you've finished laughing ... some questions for my learning and future shopping:

> Does his offer of a refund 'admit' in law, that the goods are not as described ?

> If the goods are not as described, can I claim any costs incurred by me, due to his error ?

> Do a sellers own t&c's override any national laws/rights about returns. (timescale and value)

> Am I right in asking an indepedant professional to give me a diagnosis before returning to seller ?

 

Grateful for any advice, althought I now already, I should be a LOT more careful next time.

 

Many Thanks

Simon

[perplexity]

From what I will show, I accepted some pretty horrific terms in my eagerness to buy.

So on one hand, I'm not writing with much hope of recouping my losses, more to learn what is and not legal when ebay sellers make up their own custom built t&c's.

 

The relevant basis of the law in Europe is article 7 of 1999/44/EC:

 

Binding nature

 

1. Any contractual terms or agreements concluded with the seller before the lack of conformity is brought to the seller's attention which directly or indirectly waive or restrict the rights resulting from this Directive shall, as provided for by national law, not be binding on the consumer.

 

Member States may provide that, in the case of second-hand goods, the seller and consumer may agree contractual terms or agreements which have a shorter time period for the liability of the seller than that set down in Article 5(1). Such period may not be less than one year.

(There is no such provision, especially for second hand goods in the UK; all consumer transactions are subject to the same legal terms)

 

-----

 

According to the The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 a trader's attempt to persuade his buyers that their rights are less than that could be prosecuted as a strict liability criminal offence.

 

They get away with it because a buyer's anger fizzles out before it gets as far as that.

 

8)

[IdaInFife]

So, I bought a laptop from ebay, and its all gone pear shaped.

 

 

So ... when you've finished laughing ... some questions for my learning and future shopping:

> Does his offer of a refund 'admit' in law, that the goods are not as described ? no

> If the goods are not as described, can I claim any costs incurred by me, due to his error ? no

> Do a sellers own t&c's override any national laws/rights about returns. (timescale and value) no if they are a business

> Am I right in asking an indepedant professional to give me a diagnosis before returning to seller ? depends if they had to open it up or not

 

Grateful for any advice, althought I now already, I should be a LOT more careful next time.

 

Many Thanks

Simon

 

 

ideally as as soon as the first fault occured then the full unit should have been returned for a refund

[simonB2006]

Thanks for the advice all.

Seller has agreed to a refund, though still addressing the return postal costs.

You have given so much, hence I will at least come back to let you know the final outcome.

[andydd]

I think it may be a case that you should of minimised your loses, for eaxmple I often send whole PC's and its easy to get a courier for about £10, secondly there was no real reason to rush to the computer shop, you prob should of dealt with the seller first and I'm sure he could question the need to go buy a 'temporary dvd' drive, (you still have that drive so its not fair to claim £20 for it AND still own it), after all he did offer a refund.

 

PC's compenents do have a life span and it could be you were unfortunate enough to own it when a component died, unlucky for sure but being a second hand item not really the sellers fault.

 

Andy

[simonB2006]

I think it may be a case that you should of minimised your loses, .... question the need to go buy a 'temporary dvd' drive .... not fair to claim £20 for it AND still own it)

 

I agree Andy, hence :'I'm not writing with much hope of recouping my losses'.

I have not intended to claim for the DVD.

Maybe in my original post I was just venting my frustration that if the goods had been functionable, I would not have had to spend.

Sorry if that was confusing in original post.

[gadgetgirl79]

You have 45 days to open a dispute on ebay.

 

I'd just open an "item not described" dispute in Ebay.

 

Although you will have to pay the return postage, you will be refunded the initial cost and initial postage (so £440 and £29.99). Ebay will refund you this automatically once you have tracked delivery showing that it's been returned.

 

I would also put in the dispute that you would like to be refunded for the return postage. Sometimes ebay will give you a "voucher" to the value of the return postage.

 

If you haven't already done so, then leave the seller a negative feedback and low star ratings if he doesn't refund return postage. (Although don't use this as a threat to get the postage paid, or he'll be able to have the neg removed).

[ashmk]

Open a Paypal dispute TODAY.

 

Let them put the pressure on to get your refund. I don't have much hope of you getting your costs back. Do not close the dispute for ANY reason untill you have got back what you gave the seller. if you close ythe dispute you can not reopen it. Sellers know this and try to get you to close the dispute with false promises before your money is returned.

 

I have heard of people sending a brick back and keeping the goods to sell and recoup the losses. Paypal will refund you when you provide a tracking number regardless to what you sent. But ofcorse I would'nt condine this.

[perplexity]

Do not close the dispute for ANY reason untill you have got back what you gave the seller. if you close the dispute you can not reopen it.

 

 

To the contrary, that advice (which is provided by Paypal's own advice page) misleads because it is impossible for a seller to refund via his usual Paypal transacting facility with a dispute still in progress.

 

If you sit and wait for the a seller to refund the time runs out (20 days) and then you've lost the chance to escalate the dispute, to refer the dispute to Paypal to decide.

 

Give the seller a fair chance to respond, then escalate but beware to say all you need to say about it by posting to the Resolution Centre console before you escalate. Beyond that point it is not like a conversation with Paypal; they treat the case as they then see fit; you only get to answer their questions, not to put another question to the seller or Paypal.

 

8-)

[IdaInFife]

sorry perp but you are wrong

 

once a dispute is opened a seller can refund at any time

[perplexity]

Google for Paypal, refund, hold.

 

It'll make your hair stand on end.

 

I have been in this position twice in the past few years. On the first occasion a seller promised to refund so I waited. Then the time ran out I was told that to get the refund I should have escalated instead of waiting.

 

Doubting that, on a second occasion I made a point of explaining to a seller, exactly how to make a refund so she could get her Paypal fee refunded as well. Then she got to back to me, insisting that the "refund" link I described (at the foot of the relevant transaction page) did not appear, ... absent, ... gone, ... missing, as with the Norwegian Blue Parrot. She wanted to refund and eventially did, so would not have lied about that.

 

Not so long ago Paypal "resolved" a dispute with this:

 

If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed

to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the

seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account

privileges.

That was August 2008.

 

More recently, they put a hold on the money, to be sure that it is there to be had when a buyer escalates.

 

Mind you, if it changed again last week but with no big announcement, I would not be so surprised by that.

 

[ashmk]

Again.

Do not close the dispute for ANY reason untill you have got back what you gave the seller. if you close the dispute you can not reopen it.

Ignor perp.