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    • Remind me please, is this you acknowledging the claim and putting together a defence or are we at witness statement stage?   HB
    • I'm afraid that by paying 1 pound per month, you've been keeping the enforceability of the debt alive. Normally debts become unenforceable six years after the terms of the loan have been breached. All with a mortgage its 12 years. I expect that my site team colleague @dx100uk will be along at some point today and he will give you the very best advice to help you deal with your problem. Meanwhile you ought to set out much more detail about the loans, creditors, amounts, dates et cetera.  fill this out <<<<
    • Please could you identify the manufacturer, make and model of the machine and the person or business which sold it to you. Who is the distributor? How much did you pay for it please and when did it start happening? I'm getting a little bit confused by understand that when you refer to the "supplier" – that is they who actually sold you the machine. This correct?   Also it's a bit confusing – please could you list out your total losses here – itemised.  
    • Around 16yrs ago my partner took out a couple of loans to complete renovations on our property. Around 2 years later we both had to give up work due to our new born child having a serious illness. Without going into too much detail we lost our house that we'd literally put 30k savings into along with another 25k taken in loans to complete it.    We had to give up work to care for our child which meant we couldn't pay most of our large debts. 2 loans for around 22k were outstanding and were eventually passed over to a collections agency whom agreed to accepts £1pm. These debts were passed to several others collection agencies every few years with them attempting to either agree a deal or get more funds. I think the latest company has been around 4 years with us still paying £1pm.    Is there anything I can do to get this debt wiped? I appreciate I could contact them to make an offer as full and final settlement however I wasn't sure if there was something else that could be done due to the timeframe involved?    Just for info. Neither of us are employed and still care for our child. I don't envisage this changing in the immediate future.  The default on the debt is around 13-14yrs & the loans were taken out around 16 yrs ago.
    • So do I just challenge each point like this….. ( my answers and statements in red)   1.     The claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. The defendant’s vehicle (reg no) was identified in the Headford Mews on 22/12/2020 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Parked without displaying a valid ticket/permit. – I had not entered a contract with VCS, Nor EXCEL Parking. I was merely parking in the allocated space for the property I was working at with the permission of the tenant and letting agent who acts on behalf of the landlord.   2.     The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct - There is no contract because the terms were not made clear to me or were incomplete.   3.     The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability. – Original PCN came from Excel not VCS and I have no way of appealing. The letter I received contained insufficient detail of the claim. They sent me a vague and un-evidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol. Their letter lacked specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. The letter came from VCS not Excel   4.     The sum claimed is a NOT genuine pre-estimate of loss. I did not receive a penalty charge notice I received a speculative invoice.   5.     The leaseholder/ landlord client who owns or rents the parking space has 'supremecy of contract' over the agreement the VCS and Excel have with the landowner and I parked there under my client's instruction.   6.     Wording of signage and charge notice makes it clear that the charge is a penalty  disguised as a contractual agreement. For this to be a genuine contract in the terms stated by the PPC. There is no offer for motorists to park at the tariff of £100 or even £60 per day, merely the statement that a breach of the terms will result in the motorist 'agreeing' to pay a charge. In making a charge conditional on NOT doing something this makes the charge punitive and clearly designed to dissuade and any charge must therefore be reasonable and represent either the actual loss or a genuine pre-estimate of loss to the landowner or PPC. Since the car park is essentially free for residents no loss was incurred. The PPC has indicated that they are not required to prove loss as this is a free service to the landowner and the charge was agreed with the landowner in order to cover business overheads. If £100 was to be a GPEOL then in offering a discount to £60 for prompt payment the PPC would be running at a loss of £40 per ticket. The charge is therefore disproportionate, designed to penalise a breach and is unenforceable.   5.The claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest. The sign is for £100 consideration, not £245.      
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Assistance Required Variation Request


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I had a CCJ from the Bulk Court in Northampton with the payments set at £400 odd per month.

 

I applied for a Redetermination and tx to local CC.

 

Before the Redetermination Hearing was scheduled the first payment became due on the CCJ from Northampton and as I was unable to pay the creditor got an interim CO the hearing for which was set a week after the Redetermination hearing at the same (my local) CC.

 

On the day of the Redetermination the creditor didn't turn up and sent a letter asking that this matter be settled the following week with the CO hearing which the Judge agreed to.

 

The following week the "double whammy" hearing took place with the CO being granted as the creditor said they would accept my DMP payments (53pm) and the security of the Charging Order - ie not go for order of sale.

 

All I got from the Court after the hearing was "The Final Charging Order"

 

There was no Variation Order with regard to reducing the payments that had been set at £400 odd in the original Order from Northampton to £53. I have been paying the £53 ever since with no aggro from the Creditor or Northampton Court.

 

Now I need to reduce this payment due to changed circumstances who does the N245 go to Northampton or the Local CC?

 

If to Northampton are they going to think I am taking the p*ss asking for a reduction from £400 odd to £1 per month and will they know what happened at my Local CC

 

I'm confused !!!

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You take it to your local court with the payment.

 

Thanks for your comment - I am trying to establish which court in the circunstances described.

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some info

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=08_reducing_payments_or_suspending_a_bailiffs_warrant_on_a_county_court_judgment

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=15_charging_orders_in_the_county_court

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=12_how_to_set_aside_a_judgment_in_the_county_court

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?203298-A-guide-to-Charging-Orders-amp-Orders-for-Sale

note that they suggest that if the cred directly accepts a reduced amount, then 'going back to court' may not be needed?

if you do do the n245, then it would go to the local court as it was transferred to them and they made the order? to be sure, give the ct a call?

any chance of a 'set aside'?

imo

Edited by Ford
typ

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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It was transferred for redetermination but at the combined hearing only a charging order was granted - no variation on the original CCJ from Northampton was ever made or at least I never received it. In theory I am still in breach of the original CCJ which set payments at £400 odd per month or does the CO supercede this and hence thats the reason I never got a variation ?

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not go for order of sale.

 

The charge does supersede the CCJ. They now have the debt secured, so at some stage will recieve the money. If you default on the payments, I'm not sure what they can do, if the charge was only granted on the condition that they cannot go for a sale order.

Do you have confirmation of this from the court? If not, get a copy.

Are they applying Post Judgement Interest?

 

Debs

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Hi Debbsy,

 

If my Redetermination and CO Hearings were combined should I have got "a bit of paper" for both from the Court.

 

i.e Final Charging Order (which I got)

 

and

 

Variation after redetermination for the reduction in payments from the original ccj from Northampton (400 down to 53 agreed)

 

Has anyone had a "double whammy" like this and received both documents from the Court ?

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butts, I would suggest you ring Northampton court tomorrow quoting the case reference number and asking what they have on file, is there a redetermination or not.

 

S.

 

EDIT: Sorry I mean the court it was transferred to whose stamp is on the notifications you have received up until now.

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Thanks I'll try that.

 

I first rang the Northampton County Court to establish the jurisdiction issue - they confirmed it had been tx to the local County Court and whatever the outcome it was them I had to speak to. I must say they were very helpful and polite not judgmental at all.

 

I then rang the Local County Court who again were very friendly in their approach - unfortunately their Computer can't be as flash as Northamptons as due to the age of the case the lady said she would have to go and dig the papers out. She confirmed it had been a dual CO/ Redetermination hearing . She also said she would ring me if there was no copy of the Variation with the Final Charging Order. She would also post a copy to me of both.

 

Can I just say how impressed I was with the staff I dealt with - a credit to HMCS

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Stop Press....

 

The lady rang back........

 

She told me that the Redetermination and Charging Order hearings were held together and the sole outcome was The Final Charging Order - the Northampton CCJ was indeed "wiped out".

 

I asked her did that mean as the FCO didn't contain any direction to installment payments in theory I didn't have to pay anything until the house was sold.

 

She said "that is correct the Judgement of the combined hearings was a Final Charging Order with no direction to interim payments"

 

Ehhh ???? Has the Judge "cocked up here " - how can I apply for a variation on a payment that does not exist on paper ?

 

Can some "legal eagle" explain please.

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I'll flag up to others in the site team and see what comes back.

 

S.

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Deal with your debts:

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IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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thats not a good situation

 

if no new directions for payments was included then either

 

you are still comitted to the £400 payments made previously OR

if the court is saying that is no longer operative then you have a forthwith judgement

 

you need (IMO) to get the payments agreed with the creditor in writing with an undertaking not to take any further action if they are upheld- or go back to court for a re determination

 

i take it this is a large debt- the creditor will not hang around if you are making no payments

 

if they have agreed to £53 dmp payments- you want the same undertaking as above in writing from them in respect of the charging order

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What the girl at the court said was effectively the Northampton CCJ was dead and the Judge had decided in the combined co/redetermination hearing that the CO was sufficient with no requirements for any payments to be made. The Final Charging Order redetermined the CCJ to zero??? that's why no redetermination (variation) was issued seperately ?

 

Can they do this?

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i do not understand that the court reduced the CCJ to Zero - that cannot be right- if there is no debt owed there is no need of a C/O

 

i think what is meant is that they cancelled the order for £400 monthly payments- this is what you need to check with the court and the creditor

 

dont be afraid to phone the creditor (and confirm any discussions in writing) do not LEAVE IT you normally only have 14 days to apply to the court to have your offer of payment arrangement looked at again by the judge

 

if the creditor is prepared to give the undertaking in respect of the £53 payments then get that in writing

 

make sure you pay by standing order not direct debit

 

make sure your payments are scheduled to be paid a week b efore they are due (to avoid any late payment due to bank cock ups)

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Ok let's just have quick recap - all this happened nearly three years ago the reason I came to look back was because I needed to reduce the payments I am currently making to the creditor therefore had to look back and see where the N245 had to go to.

 

Can I just repeat that the original CCJ was tx to my local county court from the bulk centre in Northampton ( This was confirmed by Northampton when I rang them yesterday) for Redetermination.

 

That Redetermination was then combined with a Final Charging Order hearing by the local county court.

At the hearing the Charging Order was made final and a discussion followed about the redetermination (ie amount I would pay - which was agreed at DMP level)

 

Following the hearing all I received was a Final Charging Order securing the debt on my jointly owned property ( thus only a restriction as debt in my name). I have been making payments at the DMP level for the last three years with no problem - it is now my circumstances have been reduced that I have to consider reducing the DMP payments.

 

What I am asking is :

 

1. If a Final Charging Order is combined with a Redetermination in one hearing should I get the FCO for the Charging Order and a seperate Variation (after redetermination) Order for the amount to be paid each month to prevent the creditor going for "an order for sale" HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD A JOINT HEARING AND RECEIVED TWO SEPERATE DOCUMENTS (ie one for the CO and one for the redetermination)

 

2. How can I submit an N245 if I ring Northampton and they say the case is under the local CC jurisdiction not theirs and I have no Redetermination Variation from the local CC to attempt to Vary ???

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i am not sure- but if you are saying that you have been paying £53 per month for the past three years and the creditor has made no complaint about that then obvioulsy he is happy with the level pf payments whatever paperwork was issued- he would therefore find it hard if not impossible to seek an order for sale after 3 years on the basis that you have not honoured any repayment shedule.

 

as for reducing the payments- obviously if it is a large debt then the creditor may be concerned at how many years you are proposing to take to repay it at a lower payment level - so your reasons/evidence for proposing to reduce the repayments will need to be pretty good

 

on the other hand- orders for sale a rare and if there is a lot of equity in the property and the debt secured on it is relatively small- an order for sale would be even less llkely

 

i think you will find that the final charging order- withot combing an agreed repayment schedule- and in the absence of a repayment CCJ stands alone - so (IMO) you will be exposing yourself a little when asking for reduced repayments

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i am not sure- but if you are saying that you have been paying £53 per month for the past three years and the creditor has made no complaint about that then obvioulsy he is happy with the level pf payments whatever paperwork was issued- he would therefore find it hard if not impossible to seek an order for sale after 3 years on the basis that you have not honoured any repayment shedule.

 

as for reducing the payments- obviously if it is a large debt then the creditor may be concerned at how many years you are proposing to take to repay it at a lower payment level - so your reasons/evidence for proposing to reduce the repayments will need to be pretty good

 

on the other hand- orders for sale a rare and if there is a lot of equity in the property and the debt secured on it is relatively small- an order for sale would be even less llkely

 

i think you will find that the final charging order- withot combing an agreed repayment schedule- and in the absence of a repayment CCJ stands alone - so (IMO) you will be exposing yourself a little when asking for reduced repayments

 

Hi DD thanks for your comments.

 

The reason I am applying (or want to) reduce the payments is because I am currently unemployed and existing on state benefits (JSA HB CTB etc)

 

I do not live in the property with the charge as it is the ex marital home ( my ex wife has been paying the mortgage for last 3 years and is joint owner)

 

The debt is about 13k and my share of the equity probably about 35K. However when we got divorced I handed over my share to my wife although have been unable to do this officially as she can't afford a remortgage to buy me out. I don't want any of the money.

 

Just to clarify can a combined FCO and redetermination Hearing result in a FCO with no Variation on the original CCJ , but rendering it redundant ?

 

If I submit an N245 to Local CC what is there to Vary as "on paper" I don't seem to have anything to Vary the Final CO seemingly wiping out the original CCJ as regards repayment and seemingly substituting it with an "unofficial agreement" to make payments via a DMP.

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I agree with debbbsy that the CO supercedes the CCJ. I'm quite surprised that you've been paying anything, so no wonder the creditor isn't complaining.

 

I would suggest that you write to the creditor and remind them that under the order that was made there was no requirement for you to make a payment, and as your circumstances have changed you will be stopping or reducing them (whichever you want to do).

 

Have you had any statements showing what you've paid and how much has gone off the debt? If you've paid money off then you need to be able to show this as the CO is now for more than the amount owed.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

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:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Are you still with payplan?

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I can't help thinking you should have something proving the money is coming off the debt.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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