Council Tax bailiff Enforcement Fee

[Gia]

A bailiff called and my son invited him in, it was because I was a few weeks late paying council tax, the council obtained a liability order last year and since then I have been paying the bailiff company the amount owed is £345.

I complained about the fees to the bailiff company which are down as Levy Fee £33, Walking Possession £11 and Enforcement Fee £125. The company state their fees are legal and correct, I have complained to the council and I am waiting for their reply.

I am sending the bailiff company a letter for a breakdown of fees charged, but I have read on here to be suspicious of enforcement fees, what exactly are these can someone help out. Another thing I am disabled and need my sofa and my microwave to cook as I cant always use an oven, and the bailiff put these items on the walking possession order. They also made out that they visited me twice previously in April 2010 and they did not, this visit was the first, yet they are charging for two previous visits.

[ploddertom]

How old is your son? Can you list exactly what items they have listed on the Notice of Seizure?

 

I note you say you are disabled, what benefits if any do you claim? Not wishing to pry but could you explain a bit more about your disability.

 

PT

[Gia]

How old is your son? Can you list exactly what items they have listed on the Notice of Seizure?

 

I note you say you are disabled, what benefits if any do you claim? Not wishing to pry but could you explain a bit more about your disability.

 

PT

My son is 22 so should have known better Lol. The notice of seizure states brown leather three piece suite, microwave and video.

I claim Incapacity and DLA, I have an impaired spinal function which is basically very bad spinal problems,where the spine is not striaght but curves slightly causing chronic pain and an inability to bend or lift, and walking is painful and very slow. I also have chronic asthma and ME.

[ploddertom]

My son is 22 so should have known better Lol. - yes they are always wise after the fact The notice of seizure states brown leather three piece suite, microwave and video.

I claim Incapacity and DLA, I have an impaired spinal function which is basically very bad spinal problems,where the spine is not striaght but curves slightly causing chronic pain and an inability to bend or lift, and walking is painful and very slow. I also have chronic asthma and ME.

 

If the Bailiff removed your 3 Piece & microwave would you have:

a - any other seating in the house + how old is it and does it have a Fire safety label on it

b - any other form of cooking

 

As for your medical conditions are the Council aware of these? You should provide a description of your condition(s) ASAP and send to both Bailiffs and Council and tell them that under the National Standards for Enforcement Agents you are potentially classed as "vulnerable" follow this link for what it says http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10 and ask the account is handed back to the Council, they may be able to deduct payments at source from your Benefits. You will need to back this description up with proof of your Benefits and condition(s) - usually a note from the Dr.

 

PT

[Gia]

The three piece suite is the only seating in the house, I am unsure on a label, as I cant move it to check the back, it was bought second hand for £50 three years ago, and is damaged as my cat used both arms for a scratching post Lol, so is virtually worthless now. I use the microwave a lot as much of the time I am unable to bend to use an oven, it was purchased from a social fund loan when I was on Income Support. The bailiff did not leave my lounge or even see the microwave or video.

My main concern is the fees that the bailiff added especially the "enforcement" fee whatever this is, and a fee for two previous" phantom" visits

The Council are fully aware of my disabilities I am in receipt of a small amount of council tax benefit this year, and I had to provide them with proof of all income.

[wonkeydonkey]

Hi and welcome to cag

 

It looks very much like your bailiff has an invalid levy, the goods at auction would not cover all the fees associated with "removing goods" let alone reduce the debt.

You have taken the right steps initially in requesting a breakdown of their fees now you need to contact the Council and ask:

 

 

1 - how much the Liability Order was for

2 - how much is still outstanding - if you know how much you have paid the Bailiff the difference may be revealing

3 - what period of time the LO covers

4 - the date they passed it to the Bailiff

 

Meanwhile, if you do only owe £345 I calculate there to be approx 10 weeks until the end of the financial year and if you pay £35 pw direct to the Council through their on line payment system then you will have discharged the debt/liability order. Please remember that although you will be challenging the bailliffs fees you must allow £42.50 to meet the required amount for fees.

[Gia]

The Liability order was for £446.97 amount outstanding is now £285.97, They did not know what period of time the Liability order covers so I asked to be mailed a copy. It was passed to the bailiff company on 09/04/10.

The council say the current balance is £285.97 minus any fees that the bailiff may add, and the bailiff on the walking possession form states the balance as £514.97 including fees.

I also told the Council when I rang that the levy is unlawful or irregular as the total of goods does not amount to the fee let alone pay anything off the debt, and that the bailiff acted improperly in that I am disabled and he should have passed the account back to the Council and not served a distress notice, among other things, they were rather worried or so it sounded. I also told them no payments would be made to the bailiff company and I would only pay them direct, take it or leave it, I have a good case and would welcome them taking further court action, they agreed to take the payments and inform the bailiffs that I was now dealing with them.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Gia

[brassnecked]

The Liability order was for £446.97 amount outstanding is now £285.97, They did not know what period of time the Liability order covers so I asked to be mailed a copy. It was passed to the bailiff company on 09/04/10.

The council say the current balance is £285.97 minus any fees that the bailiff may add, and the bailiff on the walking possession form states the balance as £514.97 including fees.

I also told the Council when I rang that the levy is unlawful or irregular as the total of goods does not amount to the fee let alone pay anything off the debt, and that the bailiff acted improperly in that I am disabled and he should have passed the account back to the Council and not served a distress notice, among other things, they were rather worried or so it sounded. I also told them no payments would be made to the bailiff company and I would only pay them direct, take it or leave it, I have a good case and would welcome them taking further court action, they agreed to take the payments and inform the bailiffs that I was now dealing with them.

 

Hold fire a little, and see what further advice may be forthcoming, It's good to have them on the backfoot for once, but more legal action should be avoided if possible, as it may mean they start assing more obnoxious fees wherther they are entitled to or not

[wonkeydonkey]

Approx £230 in fees for collecting Council Tax............it will be interesting to see abreakdown of these feees.

 

I agree with brassnecked hold fire and do not ruffle any feathers just yet..... remember you only have a verbal agreement that they will take the debt back and allow you to pay them direct, get that in writing before you go after them regarding the bailiffs actions and fees.

 

The enforcement fees you asked about earlier are exactly what they say...fees charged by a bailiff to recover money owed to a creditor, in this instance the creditor is your Council, that there are guidlines as to the way they can recover the debt does not (rarely does) mean the bailiff will follow these.

 

If you play by the book then it is often a case they will step over the line and drop themselves in the sh8t and then the pen can become mightier than the sword.

 

Well done so far, you do have some damned good arguments to put forward but sit back a while and let other caggers take a look they may spot somthing you missed in the blurry fog of fury.

 

WD

[tomtubby]

Approx £230 in fees for collecting Council Tax............it will be interesting to see abreakdown of these feees.

 

I agree with brassnecked hold fire and do not ruffle any feathers just yet..... remember you only have a verbal agreement that they will take the debt back and allow you to pay them direct, get that in writing before you go after them regarding the bailiffs actions and fees.

 

The enforcement fees you asked about earlier are exactly what they say...fees charged by a bailiff to recover money owed to a creditor, in this instance the creditor is your Council, that there are guidlines as to the way they can recover the debt does not (rarely does) mean the bailiff will follow these.

 

If you play by the book then it is often a case they will step over the line and drop themselves in the sh8t and then the pen can become mightier than the sword.

 

Well done so far, you do have some damned good arguments to put forward but sit back a while and let other caggers take a look they may spot somthing you missed in the blurry fog of fury.

 

WD

 

 

Almost all bailiff companies are trying to charge an "enforcement fee". On reality, this is an "attending to remove" fee and CANNOT be charged UNLESS the bailiff has PREVIOUSLY levied upon goods.

 

Complain to the Council. Also, it would appear that you are almost certainly classed as "vulnerable" according to the National Standards for Enforcement Agent and therefore consideration should be given to returning this account back to the bailiffs.

[Gia]

The bailiffs told me in their reply letter to my complaint that any money paid would now be taken off the bailiff fees and not the council tax. They said this in strict accordance with the appropriate council tax regulation that when executing a magistrates liability order bailiff costs are discharged first. Can they do this when the amount is in dispute, and the actual walking possession order is in dispute as being unlawful/irregular. I have paid £60 since this was issued and I want that money taken off my council tax bill not bailiffs costs. Especially when the whole thing has been mishandled by both the council and bailiffs and guidelines have not been followed. In reality if I am classes as vulnerable should the account have even been passed to the bailiffs in the first place?.

[ploddertom]

The three piece suite is the only seating in the house, I am unsure on a label, as I cant move it to check the back, it was bought second hand for £50 three years ago, and is damaged as my cat used both arms for a scratching post Lol, so is virtually worthless now. For the purpose of a levy this is worthless so should b e removed. I use the microwave a lot as much of the time I am unable to bend to use an oven, it was purchased from a social fund loan when I was on Income Support. As far as I am aware any item purchased through the Social Fund is exempt from seizure. The bailiff did not leave my lounge or even see the microwave or video. In which case how has he included them on the levy.

My main concern is the fees that the bailiff added especially the "enforcement" fee whatever this is, and a fee for two previous" phantom" visits

The Council are fully aware of my disabilities I am in receipt of a small amount of council tax benefit this year, and I had to provide them with proof of all income.

 

PT

[Gia]

The bailiff did not leave my lounge or even see the microwave or video. In which case how has he included them on the levy

 

He asked me for three items, he put the suite, then asked about tv I said its my sons not mine, asked about car, I said its motability, then said do you have a table and chairs DVD tumble dryer or microwave, I said I have an old video upstairs somewhere and yes I do have a microwave that I use frequently as I cant bend to use an oven. He then added the video and microwave without leaving the room or seeing them.

Another thing I had a witness present when the bailiff came inside the house after my son invited him in, and they heard and saw all that happened when he was in my home.

[ploddertom]

What you say above beggars belief, his levy is not even as valid as Andrex and at least you can do something constructive with that. Tell them to, what's the word again - second word off.

 

When they dispute this ask them which microwave and video he levied on as you have more than 1 of each and they are different colours.

 

PT

[Gia]

What you say above beggars belief, his levy is not even as valid as Andrex and at least you can do something constructive with that. Tell them to, what's the word again - second word off.

 

When they dispute this ask them which microwave and video he levied on as you have more than 1 of each and they are different colours.

 

PT

 

Lol now that is one good idea I will do this for sure.

[brassnecked]

Lol now that is one good idea I will do this for sure.

 

Might be a good idea to get the other witness to write down what they saw, as in bailiff adding items willy nilly without seeing them or taking consideration of your obviously vulnerable status. It might be worth a punt if you need to complain to CEO and Head of Revenues, Councillor, MP et al later

[Gia]

Might be a good idea to get the other witness to write down what they saw, as in bailiff adding items willy nilly without seeing them or taking consideration of your obviously vulnerable status. It might be worth a punt if you need to complain to CEO and Head of Revenues, Councillor, MP et al later

 

Yes I have already had him to do this, as he was really annoyed at what he saw happening and offered to write to the council etc without me having to ask.

[brassnecked]

Yes I have already had him to do this, as he was really annoyed at what he saw happening and offered to write to the council etc without me having to ask.

 

Excellent, you can attach the written evidence to anything sent to CEO, Councillor, MP when and if required, as the council is liable for the actions of the bailiff, it sometimes helps to remind them of this

[wonkeydonkey]

What a great team here on cag I just knew the OP would get more ammo for his pistol but wow he could fire tank shells at them with all this input.

Not much to offer but I can rattle out a good letter if needed.

 

WD

[Gia]

What a great team here on cag I just knew the OP would get more ammo for his pistol but wow he could fire tank shells at them with all this input.

Not much to offer but I can rattle out a good letter if needed.

 

WD

 

Oh a letter would be great thank you the help on here is outstanding, everyone pulls together to put these bullies in their place.

[Gia]

Well I just contacted the bailiff compant to ask the names of the bailiffs who attended my property on 13 April and 16th April 2010 and 06.01/11 and they refused to give me theis information as I am not entitled to it.

Also I need to think very carefully about upsetting them further or causing them any problems or my debt could substantially increase yet again, this was the offcie maanger talking, oh and in 19 years they never lost a court case, so I need to think very very carefully of doing a N4 against the bailiff cos I will lose without any doubt at all, and by the way if I dont want another visit or two I had better back off now and know whats good for me.

[Gia]

Just sent bailiffs and council this via email

 

 

To:

xxxxxt Limited.

 

Ref: Account No: xxxxxxx.

CC: Council.

27/01/11

 

Dear Sir,

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - The time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - The reason for the fee.

c - The name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - The name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - The date of the Certification of the bailiffs that have attended.

With reference to the above account please provide me with a Breakdown of the charges including Computer Screenshot.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

It appears that your Enforcement Fee is actually an attendance to remove fee, this fee cannot be charged unless a levy had been obtained previously, and therefore I require an explanation of what this “Enforcement Fee” consists of, also please note there is no actual fee for me to make a N4 complaint to the magistrates court, and that you tried to intimidate me with false information during our telephone conversation, so I would not proceed with this action. An explanation of this fee will be required by the court along with all receipts and a complete breakdown as you are no doubt aware.

You also stated that you had this morning spoken to the council and had not been told that all payments were now being made to them direct. I suggest you contact Miss xxxxx with whom I made this arrangement yesterday afternoon and confirm this as a matter of urgency.

 

Yours faithfully

 

xxxxxx

[ploddertom]

Well I just contacted the bailiff compant to ask the names of the bailiffs who attended my property on 13 April and 16th April 2010 and 06.01/11 and they refused to give me theis information as I am not entitled to it. Yes you are

Also I need to think very carefully about upsetting them further or causing them any problems or my debt could substantially increase yet again, this was the offcie maanger talking, oh and in 19 years they never lost a court case, so I need to think very very carefully of doing a N4 against the bailiff cos I will lose without any doubt at all, and by the way if I dont want another visit or two I had better back off now and know whats good for me.

 

With regards to the last paragraph did you get any of this recorded as to me this constitutes a threat?

 

PT

[Gia]

With regards to the last paragraph did you get any of this recorded as to me this constitutes a threat?

 

PT

Unfortuantely no, as I did not think for one minute they would be stupid enough to make threats over the phone in-case I was recording, but this guy is so easy to upset threats seem to come naturally so next time I ring recorded it will be, then a trip to the police station will follow.

[brassnecked]

Well I just contacted the bailiff compant to ask the names of the bailiffs who attended my property on 13 April and 16th April 2010 and 06.01/11 and they refused to give me theis information as I am not entitled to it.

Also I need to think very carefully about upsetting them further or causing them any problems or my debt could substantially increase yet again, this was the offcie maanger talking, oh and in 19 years they never lost a court case, so I need to think very very carefully of doing a N4 against the bailiff cos I will lose without any doubt at all, and by the way if I dont want another visit or two I had better back off now and know whats good for me.

 

The absolute arrogance of those who attempt to collect the uncollectable by fear. Make sure you record any phone calls to bailiff and council, as when you are sorted out I'm sure your MP and other authorities including the police would be most interested