hfc bank Court Papers

[seriously fed up]

The DN at first sight looks ok to me. Mostly the others are too small to read even if the magnification is increased. However the file 004jpg, though I cant really make it out, looks like it has a name and address in the top left - for one thing you have scored it out. Is this your name and address? If it is, does the form associate with you in any way at all? For isntance did you fill it out (doesnt look like it, but hard to say for sure), and does it have your sig anywhere on it?

best thing is to try to get us better copies - what you have up are too small and if the magnification is increased then they pixellate - and also the pocs.

[jamanji]

Hi SFU

On the top left of the form HFC have handwritten with a pen my name and address on it,

The forms are all blank and i have never filled it in

My signiture is not on the form , its all blank

 

basically they sent me a blank form with handwritten name and address on it

Sorry about the uploads im havin a bit of trouble with them but ill get it reposted asap

 

jamanji

[seriously fed up]

OK, good - in that case you want to go and have a look at afw's thread - same lender in pursuit (HFC), same [problem] (though I dont think they bothered to write her name and address in at the top - you should feel privileged!). It starts here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?269529-Creation-Financial-Services-and-Court-*WON*&highlight=afw - read if from the beginning because you might see something useful early on. But it seems to me to be basically the same sort of thing - "this is the sort of thing you must have signed and we have written your name at the top to prove this". Get back to us when you have read through it - I am sure you will have questions. You might even try sending a PM to afw, who as the thread indicates did win - but she had to face them down first. You might well have to do the same because they will "try it on" and its only by getting people to take them on that they might just stop it.

[jamanji]

Thanks SFU,

Just digesting everything and ill be back when read it all

[jamanji]

Thank for all your info SFU its much appreciated from all,

Ok paid the court and filed intent to defend, so here goes,

Needing a pointer to submit a good defence can anyone help? i have 1 week from now to lodge it. Im presuming it will be an s61 defence as no signed document is available. This is my firsyt time at court so i need all the help i can get

Just had the computer fixed so i can be online more from tomorow

Thanks in advance

[seriously fed up]

As I said in an earlier post, you could learn a lot from afw's thread (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?269529-Creation-Financial-Services-and-Court-*WON*/page3&highlight=afw) and I would spend a wee bit of time reading that. The link will take you to page 3 where I sketched out a defence for her. From what I can tell your situation is fairly close to her's - you have got T&Cs with your name and address typed at the top, while she got a blank application form with T&cs attached - not quite the same, but neither compliant, so you could learn from that. The other thing is that while her thread is headed Creation, but HFC was at the bottom of it (one of their identities). In that case, you would also find the thread interesting from the pov of process - one of the things about that case was its similarity to playing poker - they blagged their hand as much as they could but ultimately didnt have the cards. In some ways its a test of nerve - dont assume these guys want to go to court - much better to frighten you. I think that comes out in the thread. The other thing i would suggest is pming afw yourself for her advice - she's been over the course, and I would be hopeful of a similar outcome.

So, your homework -

1. read afw's thread - think about the aspects of her defence that apply to you - and look at the twists and turns that were involved
   
2. send her a pm and get her involved too.
   
3. after that draft out a draft defence and we can pick over it.
   

[24233513afw]

Hi jamanji

 

You couldn't be in better company/hands than SFU and Ida, SFU helped me through my court case with tremendous patience and guidance.

 

I must admit I was extremely terrified to attend Court to defend. Before I was due to go to court I looked up the local court lists and found out when their small claims and ordinary claims where on, I went along and sat in on some cases I found this extremely useful and it helped me.

 

Once I had done this and attended court for the first hearing of the Incidental Application that SFU helped me with to get more time to allow pursuer to send me all the paper work I needed. I was still a bit apprehensive but felt a bit more in control. The second hearing was not so bad as SFU pointed out they are all in fancy dress and this I kept in my mind the whole time I was in the court.

 

The defence that SFU prepared for me was absolutly first class, also I would never have known to request absolvitor if it hadn't been for SFU and maybe would have still had them chasing me.

 

If I can be off any help to you please do not hesitate to let me know, I would be only too pleased to help somebody as SFU did for me, it would be my way of thanking all on CAG for all the wonderful help they gave me.

 

Cheers

AFW

[jamanji]

Hi afw,

Thank you so much for your post and again thankyou SFU and ida for the support so far, Im reading your thread with intrest and yip i am just being taken down the same dark road as you have been, Firstly i hope your husband is better,i will ivdigest everything on the thread and then i will start preparing my defence, i hope i can get some help with this, just had the computer fixed so it all starts now

Will be in touch really soon as i have till next wednesday to prepare the defence but im assuming its just like yours, no signed document whatso ever , should I SAR HSBC as they only sent me the same CCa request as you ? Hope your well and here we go again

 

Jamanji

[24233513afw]

Hi afw,

Thank you so much for your post and again thankyou SFU and ida for the support so far, Im reading your thread with intrest and yip i am just being taken down the same dark road as you have been, Firstly i hope your husband is better,i will ivdigest everything on the thread and then i will start preparing my defence, i hope i can get some help with this, just had the computer fixed so it all starts now

Will be in touch really soon as i have till next wednesday to prepare the defence but im assuming its just like yours, no signed document whatso ever , should I SAR HSBC as they only sent me the same CCa request as you ? Hope your well and here we go again

 

Jamanji

 

Hi jamanji

 

Firstly, Thank you for enquiring about my Hubby, unfortunately he isn't much better still not sure whats going on still waiting more tests.

 

Personally I would send for a SAR to HSBC, SFU did advise me to do that, however this can take up to 40 days to come back and that is why SFU helped me put in Incidental Application for more time (I think its called a sist) to allow them to send me the info the court wouldn't agree to sist but allowed me more time (4 weeks) I also sent a SAR request to their Solicitors.

 

Good Luck, I shall follow this thread with great interest, if I can help in anyway please do not hesitate to say (Not clued up like SFU and Ida) but nothing would be too much trouble.

 

Cheers

AFW

[jamanji]

thank you AFW will keep it up to date and will post up my defence when i work it all out

[jamanji]

Hi there,

read through AWF s thred, alot of reading, I presume my defence would be the first part as im not going for unlawfull charges, as i await the SAR from them.

Mine is an ordinary Action

I lodged my intent to defend and paid the £80.00, got a letter from the court stating

 

23/02/11 is the last day for lodging defences

12/04/11 is the last day for making adjustments to Writ or defences

21/04/11 is the last day for intimating , together with your grounds, a note of any Preliminary pleas

 

 

26/04/11 at 10 am is the date and the time of the Options Hearing

 

So do i need to hand in my first draft of defence by 23/02/11 to the court ?

How do I write it (Typed on A4 paper with the court ref on top ? ( sorry this is my first time at court)

 

Any help is greatly appreciated

[24233513afw]

Hi jamanji

 

Did they aver that they had a copy of the signed original in their POC.

 

They hadn't done that in my case and seemingly as SFU pointed out to me that they should have done this. When I sent a copy of my defence to their Solicitors stating that they had not averred in the POC that they can produce a signed copy of the CCA everything started to desimmer, as in Scottish Courts according to Act of Sederant they have to aver that they have a signed copy of the original. (I am sure I have this right, if not I am sure somebody will be able to correcxt me). They tried the tactic of You got money from us so we want it back.

 

However your best person to advise on this is SFU, (I know he can be a busy man) have you tried send a PM to him or even Ida who could contact him.

 

Can you tell us what Scottish Court this has been called in. If you dont want to post this info on here you can PM me.

 

Cheers

AFW

[jamanji]

Hi There,

Found a letter from them stating john lewis financial services has been unable to provide a photocopy of my original agreement . Please note that in accordance with regulation 3 of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents )Regulations 1983 we provide a recontitited copy of the executed agreement that does not include information which it is permitted to exclude such as the signitures and signiture box

They confirm i opened the account on the bla bla blla and held in my name and have bassically acknowledged the debt

 

But still no signed agreement

[jamanji]

SHERIFFDOM OF, Jamanjis Address

Court Ref. No :- xxxxxxx

in the cause of

HFC Bank Limited, a Company incorporated under the Companies Acts

having its Registered Office at

Box 4716, Birmingham, B1 3RD

PURSUER(S)

Against

Jamanji

DEFENDER

ANSWERS TO CONDESCENDENCE

 

1.The averments regarding the defender are admitted. The existence of jurisdiction is admitted. Quoad ultra not known and not admitted .

 

2.

A. It is explained that, there is no signed agreement in existence for the

Beneficial Finance Credit Card :- Account No xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The agreement allegedly entered into on xxxxxxxxxx is unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 60(1) (a) by virtue of , including, but not limited to,

1. No credit limit being specified, nor how it will be notified;

2. No details provided about repayments;

3. No term stating the rate of interest

4. The document not having been signed by the DEFENDER.

“Therefore s127 (3) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 applies, specifically that the court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1) (a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner)”.

 

 

PLEAS IN LAW

1.The PURSUER’S averments are irrelevant et separatim lacking in specification, the action should be dismissed

2.The purported credit card agreement which the PURSUERS will present as evidence, does not conform in form or content to Section 60(1)(a) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and as such is unenforceable under Section 127(3) of the same Act. The Defender craves that the court uses its powers under Section 142 of the same Act and declare that the purported credit card agreement supplied by the Pursuer as unenforceable.

 

 

Hi There

This is my defense First draft, i have untill 11/04/11 to make any adjustments , can anyone tell me if i should sign it at the bottom or not ??? its to be handed in Today

[jamanji]

I will just send it unsigned , i presume that will be ok as all the info is on it

 

Jamanji

[24233513afw]

Hi

I ended my defence with my signature as follows:

 

Signed. Signature

Defender. Printed Name

Date. Date of signing

 

 

As this is a legal statement I would presume it had to be signed by the defender

hope this helps

Cheers

AFW

[jamanji]

Thanks so much AFW

Went to the court myself and they were really helpfull

Yes it did need to be signed and headed DEFENCE but everything else was just fine

 

Thanks again for replying very much appreciated

 

Jamanji

[24233513afw]

Hi jamanji

 

Glad they were helpful, our court was not too forth coming with their help or advice. Did you send a copy to hfc solicitors.

 

Also glad you got intouch with SFU.

Keep us in touch.

Cheers

AFW

[the_shadow]

Apologies that your flagged up post was missed.. Unfortunately with a large site and a volunteer force of site admins we need time to sometimes respond to all of the requests, although no excuse I hope you can understand.

 

Yes all court documents should be signed, its good you took the decision to go to the court and got advice on the fly so to speak.

 

S.

[jamanji]

Thanks AFW, yip sent a copy to the solicitors, The court pointed out that there sols copy just needs to follow up the court copy as there is no deadline for there solicitors copy

Also i have until the 12/04/11 to adjust my defence , so i await the SAR and then will adjust to suit the charges i will also put in my defence,

I am learning about all this now and will now read up on the credit act 1974 to arm myself,

The court told me to head my paper DEFENCE and to sign and print my name on the bottom, The lady then checked over my defence for me and said it was fine

 

Thanks shadow

No problem , needed to go to court anyway to hand it in on time and got some advise from them when i was there, So a win win situation was had

 

Thanks to SFU and AFW im guided on the right direction , its now up to me "to tool myself up" , as they say

[jamanji]

Hi Folks,

Just had a reply from my SAR they want me to supply a copy of my driving licence or passport, sounds suspicious to me. I have sent a SAR to 4 others and none of them have asked for this , Is this normal or are they trying to trick me ? not sure , can anyone advise on this as i need the SAR before court

Jamanji

[24233513afw]

Hi Folks,

Just had a reply from my SAR they want me to supply a copy of my driving licence or passport, sounds suspicious to me. I have sent a SAR to 4 others and none of them have asked for this , Is this normal or are they trying to trick me ? not sure , can anyone advise on this as i need the SAR before court

Jamanji

 

Hi jamanji

 

I had this with another company that I sent a SAR to, but I replied reiterating that as they used my current address for commnications already this should be enough to satisfy them of my true identity and that the clock was ticking from the date of my first request. They then sent me the info without hesitation. I am sure if you wrote back stating the same and that you would bring it to the sheriffs attention that they were delaying sending this info without good cause. After all they sent summons to you and you got it.... I definately wouldn't send anything with my signature on it especially at this stage.

 

Hopefully somebody with more experience like SFU will either confirm what I have said or advise accordingly. (As I said before its all a learning process).

 

Keep us posted.

AFW

 

 

 

What if you dont hold a Driving Licence or Passsport which I am sure some people dont...

Edited March 3, 2011 by 24233513afw
Typo mistake

[seriously fed up]

afw is quite right - tell them to get lost on the basis that there is no such requirement in the DPA - or if you want to be a bit more bolshy, ask them to show you where it is (they wont be able to). Just another delaying tactic. If this means you dont get the stuff you need from them by the time of your court appearance, ask for an extension and use their stupid letter as a reason why you need this.

The other possibility is some clever use of Photoshop (or similar to scan you sig on to an incriminating document that currently they dont have your sig on) as afw hinted. Not to say that they would - but best not to take the chance. Besides you dont have to!

[jamanji]

Thanks AWF and SFU, I will write to them and keep you both updated, many thanks again

[beetle1234]

Reading this with some interest.Good luck Jamanji...you are in very good hands on this site.Personally I would ignore the request for your ID from them....they have a legal obligation to provide you the info you requested and within a legal timeframe....if they don't this is in your favour.Who is the pursuers solicitor ? If it is who I think it is I may be able to provide you some info on what to expect when you get to court.I also echo the previous advice given....look up your Sheriff court roll and go and sit in the public gallery when Small Claims and Ordinary actions are being heard....even just knowing the layout and procedures involved will make your own visit a lot less stressful.