Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2041 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

I got a bus lane PCN.

I had no escape. (Read on and it will become clear.)

 

Bus Lane appeals are particularly difficult but I think there is a decent chance here.

This is my proposed appeal.

I would welcome any observations.

 

I will try and get the PCN scanned but aside from the issue of data on the pictures I am struggling to find issue with it.

 

At this juncture I am at the informal reps only stage.

 

I would value comments and observations (other than that drivers should not drive in bus lanes if you feel compelled to respond in this or a similar way - it was a genuine slip and I agree with the poster on the linked thread - "entrapment"!).

 

I would particularly like to hear what people with experience with TfL feel that TfL may respond with.

 

One point not mentioned in the appeal is that what the road layout does is to prevent drivers who inadvertently join the bus lane over the 1010 line to get out as there are concrete and metal obstructions - hence the "oh sh1t!".

 

I wish to appeal against this Penalty Charge Notice.

 

My grounds for appeal are that for there to be a breach of the bus lane order or regulation the restrictions provided for in that bus lane order or regulation must be adequately and/or lawfully signed. Failure adequately and/or lawfully to sign the restrictions means that no breach of the order or regulation has taken place.

 

Transport for London’s highway engineers are provided with clear guidance on the provision of traffic signs within the Traffic Signs Manual, which confirm the correct signs and markings of a Bus Lane.

 

Whilst there tends to be a belief amongst some that a sign has merely to be recognisable as a sign to apply a restriction the Case of Davies v Heatley 1971 directs that even if a sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as being a sign of that kind if it does conform to regulations no offence is committed.

 

Davis v Heatley [1971] R.T.R 145.

Because by s.64(2) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, traffic signs shall be of the size, colour and type prescribed by regulation, if a sign the regulation of which is an offence contrary to s.36 is not prescribed by the regulation, no offence is committed if the sign is contravened, even if the sign is clearly recognisable to a reasonable man as a sign of that kind.

 

Whilst this case was a criminal matter its impact on the lawfulness of road signs is in no way diminished by the decriminalising of Bus Lane contraventions. Its relevance is that it a sign or road marking is not of an approved type, it is not a marking at all.

 

The Government Offices for the English Regions have published a document “Traffic Management And Parking Guidance For London” which states:

 

“Dilapidated, missing or incorrect traffic signs can only be seen as an indication that the relevant authorities or agencies have little concern for road users.”

 

Traffic Management And Parking Guidance For London

http://www.gos.gov.uk/497417/docs/204399/tmpg.pdf

 

I have attached an aerial photograph (sourced from Google) [see link]

http://www.zroadster.net/forum/viewtopic.p...28bc91de8093556

of the bus lane in question. I joined Kidbrooke Park Road to head north having turned left from Weigall Road. The Bus Lane immediately abuts this junction.

 

[see here for a driving school video clip of the location.]

The width restriction and the bus lane kidbrooke park road

 

My reasons for claiming that the Bus Lane is not adequately and/or lawfully signed are as follows:

 

1) The start of the Bus Lane is incorrectly marked according to TSRGD:

TSRGD diagram 1010 is used to signify the start of Bus Lanes.

The sign used does not appear to be of the correct dimensions (1,000mm for each line separated by a gap of 1,000mm).

The sign should be laid diagonally to indicate the start of the Bus Lane, it appears to be laid in an arc.

TSRGD indicates “Permitted Variants None”

 

2) The start of the Bus Lane is incorrectly marked according to the Traffic Signs Manual

Chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual states in paragraph 17.5

“The start of the lane is marked with a broken line to diagram 1010, the same width as the 1049 marking, and laid at a taper no sharper than 1:10. The lane should not start in such a position that the taper would extend across a side road junction.”

From the aerial photograph it is clear that the taper is greater than 1:10.

From other photographs it appears that the taper extends across part of the side road junction.

This should be contrasted with the taper on the south-bound side of Kidbrooke Park Road.

Chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual states in paragraph 17.7

“Deflection arrows to diagram 1014 should be placed 15 m and 30 m upstream of the start of the taper. The arrows should be 4.5 m long for speed limits up to 40 mph, 6 m for 50 or 60 mph, and 9 m for 70 mph.”

From the aerial photograph it is clear that no such deflection arrows are placed in the specified positions.

 

3) There are no lawful warning signs of the Bus Lane placed on Weigall Road in advance of the Junction with Kidbrooke Park Road.

 

4) There are no lawful signs warning of camera enforcement placed on Weigall Road.

London Councils’ Transport and Environment Committee has approved the adoption of the Code of Practice on CCTV Enforcement by all London Councils (including TfL). This Code of Practice (version 3.2 – June 2006) states in paragraph 2.3.5:

“Relevant camera enforcement signs should be displayed in areas where the system operates. The signs will not define the field of view of the cameras but will advise that CCTV camera enforcement is taking place in the area.”

This means that drivers enter the CCTV field of view without having passed or seen a warning sign placed for their attention.

 

I further claim that the enforcement process is not being conducted in a lawful manner. My reasons for this are as follows:

 

5) The pictures of the alleged contravention supplied on the PCN do not conform to The Bus Lane Enforcement Camera Handbook published by the Home Office.

This states as an “operational requirement” in item 5.1.2 that:

“Every image of the offence shall show, in addition to the offending vehicle, in the order given: the date in days, month, and year, the time in hours, minutes, and seconds, the day of the week, location and frame count from the beginning of the recording. The data shall be imprinted on the image or included in the violation record at the time the offence is recorded.”

 

The images do not show all the required data and do not show it in the order given.

Only “approved devices” can be used for CCTV enforcement. The failure to show the correct information and in the correct order must mean that the device used was not approved and therefore not lawful and the images are inadmissible to show any contravention or alleged contravention. The failure of the PCN to show lawful images renders it void and therefore there is no evidence of a breach of the bus lane order or regulation.

Further the stills do not conform to the requirement in the Code of Practice on CCTV Enforcement (item 2.5.24) that “each still image will be given a unique serial number” as none is shown.

 

Should these representations be rejected then please treat this as a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 for the following documents:

 

a) A copy of the bus lane order or regulation giving effect to the Bus Lane.

b) A copy of the Safety Audit for this road layout.

c) A copy of the engineer’s scale diagrams showing the layout of this Bus Lane, the road markings and the signage (including warnings of camera enforcement).

d) Copies of any approvals of deviations of signage from TSRGD.

e) Logs of maintenance visits verifying existence and condition of the signs.

f) Certification of type approval of the CCTV device.

g) Details of the number of times that the videotape used has been degaussed and reused.

h) A copy of the Camera Enforcement logbook recording the alleged contravention.

i) Copies of the still images showing all the required information in the correct order.

j) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location.

k) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and cancelled by them following informal challenges.

l) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and cancelled by them following formal appeal to them.

m) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and cancelled following appeal to a PATAS adjudicator.

n) The number of PCNs issued by TfL in respect of this location and not pursued by them for any other reason.

o) The average monthly penalty revenue raised by TfL in respect of this location (north and south-bound and on both sides of the railway bridge). [Note that the aerial photo shows the pinch-point bus lanes on the south side of the bridge only.]

 

To help with the context, here's the PCN and some photos.

 

FrontofKidbrookeParkRoadPCN.jpg

 

ReverseofKidbrookeParkRoadPCN.jpg

 

067.jpg

 

062.jpg

 

060.jpg

 

065.jpg

Edited by dx100uk
merge

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know it won't help your case, but I have never seen such a pointless bus lane. The cynical might even suggest this is a deliberately engineered stretch of road with the sole purpose of revenue generation!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's at a pinch point. I think that the railway bridge that the road leads up to is weak and the objective is to keep heavy vehicles (other than buses) off it.

 

The reality IMHO is that it has been poorly designed. Simply switching the locations of the north and southbound bus lanes (if you see what I mean) would have meant that the northbound bus lane need not have been on top of the junction.


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was under the impression that there should be warning signs in the side road to tell you that you are turning on to a road with a bus lane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having slept on it I am now going to add a "vague locus" ground as follows:

 

Under paragraph 3 (a) of S4 of the London Local Authorities Act 1996 a PCN is required to state "the grounds on which the council believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle". This PCN does not do so. Part of the grounds must by definition be to describe the location in which the alleged contravention occurred.

The alleged contravention is described as "being in a bus lane during the hours of operation that is in Kidbrooke Park Rd SE3 . . . "

Kidbrooke Park Rd contains a number of bus lanes and it is therefore necessary for TfL to state which one is involved in the alleged contravention in order to discharge their statutory obligations. They have not done so.

TfL may seek to argue that it can be determined from the images, however this is not reasonable. It is not appropriate for TfL to rely on motorists interpreting their images and infering from them the location in which they are alleged to have committed a contravention. In any event the inclusion of images is not a statutory requirement and TfL's obligation is to "state" certain matters and this means "provide in words".

Notwithstanding the above, the balance of this appeal is based on my inference as to the location and the provision of my arguments is not to be taken as a waiver or estoppel of my right to amend my representations should TfL seek to argue that the location I have inferred is in fact incorrect.


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was under the impression that there should be warning signs in the side road to tell you that you are turning on to a road with a bus lane.

 

Thanks,

It's point 3 in my reps.


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was under the impression that there should be warning signs in the side road to tell you that you are turning on to a road with a bus lane.

 

If the side road can only be entered from the main road (as a Cul-de-Sac) perhaps not.

On the basis one would have read the signs when you entered the road.

 

But, what do I know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there. I've just received an identical ticket/fine for the same location on Kidbrooke Park Road SE3.

 

Before I proceed with an appeal, please can you tell me if you have had a positive result from yours? I appreciate that it was only last month and you may not have heard, but I would be most grateful if you would let me know. Many thanks and best of luck. Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This PCN has been cancelled after informal reps.

 

The TFL response did not address all the points I raised and was simply a "we're right and you're wrong" response.

 

Importantly they failed to respond to my FOI request and the deadline expired. I e-mailed TFL to press that point and also made the point that the close up photo of my car was of it outside the bus lane and therefore of no relevance.

 

Curiously today I had a phone call from TFL to say that they were sending me the video and further stills.

I took the opportunity to have a bit of a chat about stuff and also pointed out that their response was not treating me fairly for two important reasons

1) it didn't address the points I raised and therefore, as adjudicators have said "how can I make a proper decision on whether to appeal in a formal manner" and

2) their letter was dated 16 May and gave me until 30th April to pay the reduced rate and that was in the past.

 

I said that as far as I was concerned this was clearly an issue that the PATAS adjudicators would not look favourably on.

The guy's response was, let me look into it and call you back.

 

True to his word he called back in about 15 mins and told me that the PCN has been cancelled.

 

I then received a nice e-mail explaining that their customer service fell short of what I should expect to receive etc etc.

 

The thing is, I was very happy with the service I got. I'm not complaining at all. I was so pleased I withdrew my FOI requests.

 

In all seriousness, there are four key lessons here for me to share:

1) Always make informal reps and do so in detail.

2) Demonstrate that you know your stuff and have done your research.

3) Remember the objective, to have the PCN cancelled, it matters not why they do so just that it is done.

4) The LA in reality doesn't really care one jot about your ticket. So you need to find a reason to make them care, this could be because you make a reasonable and detailed case that is going to be complicated and expensive for them to defend or that it is going to expose them to a defect in their restrictions or enforcement processes.


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh how i wish id read this last month.

 

I had a ticket for the same offence in july

 

I sent in a letter of appeal based mainy the fact the signs arnt positioned where you see them until you on top of the bus lane

(if you ca really call something that small a bus lane)

 

i sent my cheque along with my letter (yes i know now) as i did not want to go down the road of appealing against the extra charge as appeal not received within 14 days.

Guess what they cashed the cheque but denied every receiving the letter,

 

then when i phoned the lady i spoke to just quoted the party line and said by paying id admitted guilt so appeal invalid

however they could still not confirm where my letter was,

 

when i then asked to speak to manager she refused stating it was not a matter for a manager,

i politely reminded her is was for me to decide if she had not helped and manager required ,

she still refused and told me to write in missing the irony that matter was due to lost post.

 

I then said ok i would write but could she now put me through to complaints department she could tell i was giving up and stated would get a manager to call me back,

to the credit of the manager he did so within 15 mins,

 

he advised me to email copy of my origional letter and they would look at.

i did this and was promised a reply within 10 days,

 

17 days later a letter arrived stating thank you for your letter we have your payment matter now closed( wow thanks)

I phoned again and was a least told some reasons for rejection and for bus lane being there (stop wide loads etc)

 

the peson almost accused me of being a bad driver but was in aggreement with my representations even though he said would not be accepted.

he states will get a proper written reply to my appeal detailing why rejected

(i dont think this exists yet as they took the money so why bother assessing the appeal)

 

i told him its not just about not paying the fine

but if people dont appeal potential problems with road layouts would not be rectified,

 

when i then questioned how often this happens here he suggested (sort of off record) that i investigate which led me to google the bus said bus lane which led me to your message.

I await with non expectent baited breath for a written reply from TFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

I am very pleased to see this thread!

 

I have received the same Bus Lane PCN, although mine was at 3.42am! This was the first reason which made me decide to fight and appeal against it, but now after finding this thread it seems that I actually have a case!

 

I'd be interested to know how you got on Bernie the bolt and any others that have been helped by the thread.

 

Bernie the bolt, would you mind if I used the same text from your appeal e-mail? I do not know much about this subject but as I read on it is becoming clearer and more likely of a victory. If so, would you be able to tell me at which point in the appeal you added the "vague Locus", would this be point 6?

 

Also, is it likely that by the time I gain a response from TFL the 14days would have passed and I will have to pay the fine in full, or will the 50% "reduction" be kept until a decision on my appeal has been made?

 

Sorry for jumping in with my first post and asking for help, It would be most appreciated

 

Regards

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greg,

 

It was some time ago and yes I think the vague locus would have been point 6.

 

If you write within the 14 days and they reject you should have an extra period of time to pay the reduced rate.

 

Let me know how it goes with this.


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My girlfriend received a PCN (July 2008 @ 00:25, Raining and Dark) for driving in the same "bus lane". I think this thread will be useful to your appeal(s).

The appeal went all the way to the adjudicator and was allowed on grounds that there was no breach of the bus lane order or regulation. Now, adjudicator's reason was that the Local Authority did not send any evidence. I am not sure if this means; to the adjudicator or to us, since we did not receive any requested evidence either (i.e. Traffic Order, etc.).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they are supposed to send the evidence (ALL the evidence) to both the adjudicator and the appellant and have been notified of such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

Bernie, after sending my appeal via email(the same as your appeal) I have received this letter...

 

 

Thank you for your representation received 6th Nov 08, regarded the above PCN.

 

I have considered your representation and regret to advise that you have not established grounds orsuitable reasons for the PCN to be cancelled.

 

The reasons for the rejection are as follows:

 

Please be advised that the bus lane at this location runs adjacent to a normal traffic lane which has width restriction in place. Vehicles which are not permitted to use the bus lane during operational hours must use the width restricted lane.

 

The enclosed photographic evidence clearly shows illustrating the bus lane markings. The bus lane is clearly sign posted and marked out on the road surface, the legend 'BUS LANE' is marked on the road. The onus is on the drivers to be aware of the bus lane and its restrictions. Drivers are not permitted to drive in the bus lane due to the main traffic lane has a width restriction in place. The signage and markings meet all statutory requirements as set down in the Traffic Signs Regulations& General Direction 2002.

 

The options available at this stage are:

 

The letter then goes on to give me the options to pay by 26 November or appeal to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service.

 

I have left it too late I think, so will probaly pay the fine tomorrow. I just wondered what your thoughts were and thought you might like to know how it went.

 

Thanks for your help anyway, it was most appreciated

Regards

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ting

Does it specifically say 26th or is it described in another way?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Ting,

 

Yes it reads;

 

The options available to you are:

 

1) To pay the outstanding charge of £60 by 26th November 2008. If you choose this option before the issueof the enforcement notice you wil lose your right to appeal to the independent parking and traffic regulations and the matter presumed closed.

 

Or

 

2. To appeal to the PTAS. For this you must wait until the registered keeper of the vehicle is issued with an enforecement notice. This will be dispatched within 28days, giving a further 28days to make full payment or make formal representation in writing to this office. There is no formal right of appeal to the adjudicators before the enforcement notice is issued.

 

 

Anyway... looks like I'll be paying it now. Yet again I feel robbed by technology and this money grabbing country.

 

Regards and thanks

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ting

Ah, now i understand. You've only made an informal challenge - no surprise to see those rejected out of hand.

You still have formal reps to make but will be fighting for the full amount.

 

Can't say I can recall Bernie's case details - but i do remember it both here and elsewhere. Given there was a win i'm surprised you roll over so easily? That said - it's you money and your decision.

At what stage did Bernie win?

-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I'm honest Ting, I don't know how to go about making formal representation and relied on Bernie heavily with the informal stage. What kind of email/letter would I have to send?

 

I don't actually know what stage he won or if he did at all?

 

Thanks

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Ting

reading back - he won at informal. Surprised me based on the timescale I recall. Formal reps are made in response to the EN as they mentioned. follow the instructions.

i don't know if you even have a case or why exactly Bernie's was cancelled? no time to look at mo. i recall some issue with signage - and wasn't there some document flying about where TFL concede the site was not enforceable. Bernie knows far more because he researched a lot i think.

-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your help, it's appreciated

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Greg,

As summarised in my previous post above and here, my girlfriend went through exactly the same process. She even had the opportunity to talk to TFL, who were no help (i.e. they are right and you are wrong). I guess Bernie_the_Bolt got lucky to have success at informal appeal stage.

She received a formal rejection, which seems to be a standard procedure. In fact, I recall she had to request this, since an Enforcement Notice was issued before any rejection to her informal appeal. We then put forward an appeal to PATAS. Main point we focused on was the inadequate signage, as the PCN states that applicable reason must be used. We did also add the original appeal and pointed out that no requested evidence was sent out (almost all the items Bernie specified above in his original post). Basically follow instructions on appeal form.

There was an acknowledgement letter, stating appeal was received and the date when it will be reviewed by an adjudicator. True enough we got a response, the adjudicator allowed the appeal on grounds that there was no breach of the bus lane order or regulation. Reason given was that the Local Authority did not send in any evidence and as lamma explains, all evidence has to be sent.

Personally, I would encourage you to persist with the appeal, although there are no guaranties. If you have not paid already and missed the deadline for 50% discount, I don't see why you would not go ahead. There may have been a few cases of success, which is very inconsistent and I would point this out to the adjudicator, (i.e. how one person can be allowed an appeal and others not). I don't know if the Local Authority find it too much work to respond or simply feel that if they lose they must respect the rest of appeals or fix the bus lane if it is wrong. I am no expert on this, but wish you luck if you go ahead.

Regards,

RV

Edited by redvarus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to confirm I won at the informal stage.

My informal reps were rejected and the rejection letter gave me a further few days to pay at the discounted rate but the specific deadline was set in the past!

They gave me a contact no to call which I did and pointed out to them that they had not responded to all the points compring my informal reps and that this constituted failing to treat me fairly. I also pointed out that I could not comply with their deadline as it was set in the past and it was for this reason that the PCN was cancelled.

Yes, I got lucky, although I would have loved to have seen their answers to my grounds for appeal.

 

I am increasingly of the view that one should put forward as many and as detailed grounds for appeal as possible. This IMHO substantially increases your chance of success. Get the LAs to put your case on the "too hard to defend" pile.


********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all,

 

I appear to have also been caught by the infamous Kidbrooke Park Bus Lane, and I'm considering appealing the PCN. From reading this forum and some others, am I right in thinking that the The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002 (ie the actual statutory requirements) is the lettering for BUS LANE on the road (looks to be insufficient spacing between the lines)? The requirement for a 1:10 ratio taper appears to come from chapter 5 of the Traffic Signs Manual - does this mean it is just for guidance or is it also mandatory? Does anyone have any other thoughts on the best way to challenge this particular bus lane PCN? I would grudgingly pay the fine if I thought that I had done something wrong and been caught, but here (it was at night and in heavy rain) I was in the lane before I knew it, and as someone pointed out above, once in it is tricky to move out because of the pinch point!

 

Also, in practical terms, how do you submit an informal challenge - can this be done by email or must it all be hard copy?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

CPS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello there!

Someone I know was last year a victim of the ever popular Kidbrooke Park bus lane and promptly recived a TFL notice to pay up. Having some experience of these forums, I had pointed my friend to this site and it seems he went along and pretty much sent an informal appeal (via email) based on the post from Bernie_the_Bolt - now interestingly enough, TFL responded with all manner of documentation (as a formal response via post) - but did/could not address all the items as had been requested. Moreoever - no where in thier response did they comment on either the validity of the notice OR what future action my friend was supposed to take.

Having waited a good few weeks, my friend once again emailed TFL with reference to the original PCN and subsequent response from TFL - asking what he should be doing - in response to which TFL - sent back the entire previous response (via post) with a line added to the cover letter stating 'our previous reponse clearly indicates what next action you may take' :)

No where in this second letter as well did TFL mention wether my friend needed to pay or not.

 

Subsequent to the 2nd letter from TFL - nothing further was ever heard or recieved in this regard.

 

It's been a little more than 8 months now from the date of the original TFL notice - my question is - Is this PCN / notice still valid or should we treat it as having been dismissed?

 

Regards,

HappyBoy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...