ebay, non-paying bidder, possibly a [problem]

[salviablue]

Hi guys,

This is the issue:

I put my car up for auction on eBay, and it 'sold'. However, the winning bidder failed to pay or make contact after issuing several invoices and emails. After a few days another eBay member (with only a few ratings/transactions, all purchases) stated that he had an emergency during the final hour of the auction and never got to place his intended bid. If the sale fell through could he make an offer. I said if the winner continued in failing to go through with his contractual obligation that I would relist the car with bin (at the previous sale price) and let him know so he could have "first dibs", so to speak.

 

He replied stating that he couldn't afford the final sale price but would keep it in mind incase I wished to sell it for less or he had a change of heart.

 

The winning bidder then got in touch stating that he never placed the bid, and that someone must have placed the bid using his account as he forgot to log off his eBay account when using a public computer. He'll ask around but doesn't hold any hope, "sorry, cant help".

I informed him of his legal obligations and that it was his responsibility to take reasonable acne basic security steps to protect his account, and that he is fully liable for any account activity where he has not ensured such basic responsibility. I also mentioned that unless he take responsibility for the bid that I may considerd court action, to which he replied that "that would be crazy as court action never works. I would have to be able to prove just who placed the bid, and since it was done in a library, and it wasn't me, this would be impossible. Besides, I have no money"

 

I even stated that because of this, I am facing real costs, of which will not be refunded as this is the second something similar has occurred amd eBay don't refund for a second relisting. I stated the non-refundable costs to me where around £35 and reimbursement of this would be in my mind taking responsibility of his neglect and in such a case I would cancel the transaction,even without filing the non-paying bidder thing.

 

Then the other eBay member, contacted me again stating that he is still interested in purchasing the car, and if the sale has still not taken place could he view it?

Looking into this other member, his location is the same as the winning bidder, and his few fb scores where all purchases made from the winning bidder, all for goods purchased at much lower than eBay expected prices (around £5 each for things like laptops, printer etc.). Quite a coincidence wouldn't one surmise?

 

Upon further investigation of the winning bidder, he has sold a lot of mainly Volvo cars (but under the amount required to be listed as a trade seller/business account, most in the condition expected of mot failures, more than a private member would have access to, but he is not listed as a trader/business account holder.

 

During this, he had another car up for auction, another mot failure type car, which 'disappeared' early after my last ma to him (outlining his legal responsibilities, eBay account responsibilities and asking for evidence has filed fraudulent activity on his account, and if he needed evidence support his claim that it could be available through a subject access request to the library where he used his account - asking for cctv and computer log records.)

 

I did a few searches on his listed address and name. His listed address is to a blind and curtain fitting company (that only comes up with that address on the Google listing yellow pages type thing, however all other addresses for the same company come up as being elsewhere and who's company house registered address is not that on the Google listing.

 

He states thaer he has lost his job recently which is why he is selling his car as he can't afford the £700 the garage want to fix the head gasket. However, this is just the type of sale reason he gives for his previous car sale listings (wife wants an up grade, got in p/x don't like, head gasket just went can't afford to get fixed etc...), but in his history he has some cases where he buys parts for some of the cars he later sells at auction....

 

Now, here are what I have gleaned as being my options:

1. Take it on the chin, block both members from further bidding on any of my items, relist and absorb the costs.

 

2. Take it on the chin and quit ebay, pulling my info from both ebay and paypal, refusing to pay the fees and face possible action my self.

 

3. Issue to the small claims for the selling price of the car, plus interest, plus storage (@ around £50 p/day) for 60 days, after which disposing of the vehicle or possibly go through the process of reclaiming the car.

4. Relist the vehicle and issue a claim for the difference in price should the car sell for less, plus costs in fees plus interest.

 

5. ??

 

 

 

What do you guys think? Any advice or anyone with actual experience in this kind of thing?

 

I haven't yet closed the open unpaid item case wiry eBay yet as to leave my options open.

[IdaInFife]

You won't get anywhere trying to pursue the winning bidder.

 

You can cancel the transaction and if the bidder agrees then you will get your fees back.

[salviablue]

I won't get my fees back, only the fvf. This has cost me.around £36, non-refundable, purely down to non-paying winning bidders. Further more, these bidders whom think that contractual obligations do not apply to them, are directly damaging my chances of selling the car, as each time it relist, especially as it is considered a sports classic in a niche market, it will be noticed that its been relisted. Even with a "relisted due to time wasters/ non-paying winning bidder" people don't think "dodgey eBay" or ""dodgey buyers", they think "dodgey seller or car....

 

As to going and selling at an other action site, well that's done and dandy if I had a load of other items and time to sell to get my feedback score up, but I don't. And listing privately for sale isn't really an option either as these cars are fairly rare but they sell very slowly as they are a niche market. I am only selling because I need to pay rent. No sale = no rent. If I sell it at any price = no rent. I'm already losing £3k on her over what I paid, and for a little time and another £2k or so spent it would be worth around £5k, with a respray £7k or more.

 

I could probably get away without paying a months rent if I jade a gpod chance of succeeding at court.........and with the British legal system....pie in the sky for any kind or fair rulings pt justice.

Edited January 20, 2011 by salviablue

[perplexity]

Further more, these bidders whom think that contractual obligations do not apply to them, are directly damaging my chances of selling the car, as each time it relist, especially as it is considered a sports classic in a niche market, it will be noticed that its been relisted.

 

Instead of ignoring the law, the better plan would be to read it.

 

Section 7(a)(vi) of the UK Distance Selling Regulations requires that the supplier informs the consumer that the right to cancel exists.

 

When a supplier fails to do so, that is a strict liability criminal offence because of section 6(4)(g) of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

 

Subsequent sections of the Regulations make it an offence.

 

8-)

[Kraken1]

Instead of ignoring the law, the better plan would be to read it.

 

and even better - then understand it!

 

To the OP - ignore Perpy. He's talking trash. It's the norm.

[salviablue]

I thought that only applied to business sellers/traders and not private sellers (i.e. me) selling private goods that are no longer required (or some other personal reason). If distance selling then applies to anyone and everyone selling on ebay then bugger, nearly everyone is a potential cps case.

 

Also, if ebay auctions are legally considered auctions, then even for business sellers/traders, it would be exempt from the distance selling legislation (under regulation 5 para 1 f . excepted contracts, 1.(f) the following are excepted contracts, namely any contract - concluded at an auction)

 

Neither am I a supplier, to which those regulation apply. I am not acting in a commercial or professional capacity.

 

Even if eBay is not an official legally recognised auction house, I still do not fall under the regulatuons of distance selling and have kept to and gone beyond that which is required of a private seller.

[salviablue]

As soon as I have the funds to do so, I will take this npwb to court, its what exactly I take him to court for. Providing it would cost less than what I am awarded, I'd even sue for as little just the costs of my fees due to the no-sale, its the principle and how he dealt with the matter (or, rather, failed to).

 

and still no further communication.

 

The 'other' ebayer has contacted me again asking many specific questions about the vehicle and its state. strangely he is asking questions where.by the answers are all ready covered by the listing details. it does seem as though the two ebayers are in collusion and this one is scouting for info the npwb may be able to use as "not as described", however, tyhe vehicle is exactly as described. any thing else wrong with it is so minor as to well fall under caveat emptor or as such that I am reasonably unaware to.

 

Just to point out, no one has as yet actually viewed the car, nor actually asked any questions before the auction had ended, despite me pointing out that viewing before bidding is recommended as is asking any questions.

[perplexity]

I thought that only applied to business sellers/traders and not private sellers (i.e. me) selling private goods that are no longer required (or some other personal reason). If distance selling then applies to anyone and everyone selling on ebay then bugger, nearly everyone is a potential cps case.

 

The Application of the Regulations to the Internet depends upon the contractual relationship between the website provider and the seller (recital (10) of the EU Directive, hence OFT Guidance) which with eBay is the same for all the members, the User Agreement, the contract to provide the commercial capacity to sell on eBay.

 

Also, if ebay auctions are legally considered auctions, then even for business sellers/traders, it would be exempt from the distance selling legislation (under regulation 5 para 1 f . excepted contracts, 1.(f) the following are excepted contracts, namely any contract - concluded at an auction)

 

Were eBay an auction (which eBay is not) the offence would be to fail to allow the bidder to retract his bid at any time before the auction is complete, as is required by section 57 of the Sale of Goods Act.

 

To sell to some parts of the World you would also have to apply for an auctioneer's licence, and pay for that.

 

8-)

[Kraken1]

Sal - tro translate that for you:

 

1) you are right - the dsrs don't apply as the contract was not concluded between a business and consumer.

 

2) there is an argument - a persuasive one in my view, that ebay is not actually an auction. This view has been supported in other european countries, but has yet to be tested in the UK. At the moment it seems to be the case that the dsrs apply to a business to consumer sale bought through buy it now, but if it is determined that ebay is not a real auction then the dsrs would also apply to business to consumer sales completed through the bidding process.

 

As for this:

 

Were eBay an auction (which eBay is not) the offence would be to fail to allow the bidder to retract his bid at any time before the auction is complete, as is required by section 57 of the Sale of Goods Act.

 

No idea what Perp is smoking.

[perplexity]

Were a sale on eBay to completed by the bidding process, that would be an auction.

 

What actually happens is that a sale on eBay is completed by the listing process, whereby the seller's offer to sell is accepted, whichever way the price to pay was determined.

 

In the mean time, eBay's acceptance of a member's bid concludes a contract between the buyer and eBay whereby eBay undertakes to conduct the transaction. The placing of a bid on eBay is therefore authorised by eBay so is not the conclusion of a contract of sale between the member and the seller of the goods, nor does a seller's consent to allow the bid amount to as much, not before the auction ends which is when the contract between the buyer and the seller concludes.

 

Transactions concluded on eBay are not auctions.

 

8-)

[Surfer01]

To me it sounds as if the original bidder and the person now trying to buy it are one and the same and are trying to play you for a fool. I would ignore bothand ban them. Unfortunately it does leave you out of pocket for £35. As per earlier advice ignore Perky!