Red debt collection - barclaycard, fighting me!

[kadie71]

sorry for my ignorance but what is a cca request? also if it was already statute barred can they still try to enforce it?

[coledog]

Kadie

 

You need a SAR to Barclaycard - see my post above for the letter. Please feel free to start your own thread to get individual help, you should be sending CCA requests etc to lowells but SARs to the OC, purchasers are rubbish at responding to this. If they threaten legal action there are other request that you can make under CPR

[coledog]

CCA info below but please start a new thread so we can deal with your individual situation - the debt must be a Credit Card or Loan to warrant a CCA request

 

CCA Request

CCA letter to send with a £1 postal order by recorded delivery, do not sign. They have 12 plus 2 working days to reply. If nothing valid is received you can send a letter to put the account in dispute and this should stop them contacting you.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter

Account in Dispute letter

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

[kadie71]

thanks - will sar barclaycard & go from there.

[coledog]

You must be certain that a debt is Stat Barred before claiming this to a creditor or you are just acknowleding the debt. You need to get the information about last payment/acknowledgment before claiming that a debt is Stat Barred and a SAR is the best way. A CCA request will tell you if the debt is actually enforcable. I am in no way suggest that you avoid legitimate payments but you need to know the facts and if the debt is enforcable

[kadie71]

I have done things the wrong way round then - however this is what lowells replied to the statute barred letter " your account is not legally unenforcable onder the lim act 1980 on the basis that a default notice was served to you by barclaycard on 27th june 2008." I didnt get a default notice from barclaycard tho, I think this date is the date of purchase. the letter goes on to say sec 5 of the act goes on to say that following the date when a cause of action arose for payment of the debt any creditor has a period of 6 years to enforce such a right. the date of the default notice is when the debt in this matter became due for payment in full & the period in which we (lowells) has to enforce their right to payment in absence of any payments or written acknowledgements being made by you in between this date.

[coledog]

As in Piercy's case - get the facts. CCA to Lowells and SAR to Barclaycard, do not get into letter table tennis with them (but keep all correspondence).

[DonkeyB]

I have done things the wrong way round then - however this is what lowells replied to the statute barred letter " your account is not legally unenforcable onder the lim act 1980 on the basis that a default notice was served to you by barclaycard on 27th june 2008." I didnt get a default notice from barclaycard tho, I think this date is the date of purchase. the letter goes on to say sec 5 of the act goes on to say that following the date when a cause of action arose for payment of the debt any creditor has a period of 6 years to enforce such a right. the date of the default notice is when the debt in this matter became due for payment in full & the period in which we (lowells) has to enforce their right to payment in absence of any payments or written acknowledgements being made by you in between this date.

 

I’ve explained this in detail earlier – they are wrong, and they know they are wrong. The cause of action arises when the first payment is missed if there is no further contact. When do you believe you last acknowledged the account with a payment or in writing? It would have to be December 2004 or thereabouts.

 

Do as Coledog says, and send an SAR to the original creditor, asking SPECIFICALLY when a default was placed with the credit reference agencies. You really need to start your own thread.

[coledog]

And both of you (not DB) please be very careful what you put into writing to these people and ask for help if you need it.

[tosh1]

subbing

[Piercy75]

Can any of you confirm that this is ok for me to send back ((recorded of cours)) as Im going to hit them with it today:

 

Acc/Ref No: XXXXXXXX

17th JANUARY 2011

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− XXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated 13/01/2011, the contents of which are noted.

 

I also note AGAIN that "Red Collections" is simply a "trading style" of Lowell Portfolio LTD. Therefore your claim to be acting on behalf of Lowell Portfolio LTD is spurious, as you are clearly one and the same company.

You state in your later dated 13th January 2011 that account: XXXXXXXX is not legally unenforceable under the Limitation Act 1980 on the basis that a default notice was served on the 13th October 2005. Again this is another spurious claim and DEMAND THAT YOU PROVIDE PROOF of such information as defined under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I would like to point out that under the OFT’s Debt Collecting Guidlines July 2003 (Updated April 2008) you are clearly using Deceptive/Unfair methods to retrieve said debt! This is explicitly confirmed in Section 2.7 and 2.8 a) , and k)

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

2.8 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a). sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that

they are the debtor in question, for example, threatening debt recovery

action to 'the occupier' or sending a payment demand to all people sharing

the same name/date of birth as a debtor in the hope that contact with the

correct debtor will be made

k). not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or

disputed debt.

 

This letter therefore is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement & default relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I further require a copy of the termination notice and notice of (absolute) assignment.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the CONSUMER PROTECTION FROM UNFAIR REGULATIONS 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

The onus is on YOU to prove this debt is indeed enforceable! Therefore I wish to formally notify you AGAIN that unless I receive proof of alleged debt or that this matter is closed; then I will not hesitate to make a formal complaint to the 'Office of Fair Trading' and also to 'Trading Standards'.

 

Furthermore, any attempted contact (other than to prove the debt is enforceable to myself or that the matter is now closed ) by any:

• "trading style" of the Lowell Group (including Hamptons Legal)
  
• constituent member of the Lowell Group (including Hamptons Legal)
  
• a third party acting on your behalf
  
• a third party that claims to have been legally assigned this alleged debt
  

will result in an immediate complaint to the aforementioned regulatory bodies.

 

Also please note that any legal action you may consider will be FULLY and VIGOROUSLY defended, and you will be put to a strict proof of the alleged debt and any payment or acknowledgement that you claim within the relevant limitation period.

I await your response.

MR XXXXXXXX

 

 

 

[coledog]

No no - keep it to a simple CCA, ask for the Credit agreement and any associated documentation including full statements of the account and enclose £1.

 

Do not argue with them - I don't think it will get you anywhere at this stage and will just confuse the issue. It is very tempting to get into a debate with them. What you need is to find out if there is a valid credit agreement and more details about this account - hence the SAR also (to the OC).

[DonkeyB]

You haven't really taken in any of the advice given, I'm afraid.

[Piercy75]

Is this any better guys? I've toned down the rhetoric...

 

 

 

Acc/Ref No: xxxxxxxx

 

17th JANUARY 2011

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:−xxxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 13/01/2011, the contents of which are noted.

 

 

You state in your later dated 13th January 2011 that account: XXXXXXXX is not legally unenforceable under the Limitation Act 1980 on the basis that a default notice was served on the 13th October 2005. Again this is another spurious claim and ask you provide proof of such information as defined under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

This letter therefore is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement & default relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. I further require a copy of the termination notice and notice of (absolute) assignment.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the CONSUMER PROTECTION FROM UNFAIR TRADING REGULATIONS 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

I await your response.

 

MR XXXXXXX

Edited January 17, 2011 by Piercy75
Put my name in it!

[DonkeyB]

Your first step should be calling Bcard or sending an SAR to find out where Red's assertions come from. Ask Bcard on the phone when a payment was last made on the account and when it was registered with the CRAs.

 

Then think about the letter content.

[DonkeyB]

And take your name off your post!

[Piercy75]

DonkeyB, sincere apologies, name removed. Ok, I believe Im getting a bit flustered. Any chance you can point me in the direction of a template which would include my counter argument that reads:

 

You state in your later dated 13th January 2011 that account: xxxxxxxx is not legally unenforceable under the Limitation Act 1980 on the basis that a default notice was served on the 13th October 2005. Again this is another spurious claim and ask you provide proof of such information as defined under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I wouldn't be wasting my time fighting Red/Lowell if I knew I was wrong about all this, really appreciate your help everyone, sorry if Im getting wound up....

Edited January 17, 2011 by Piercy75
showing account number

[DonkeyB]

Call Bcard first and get the facts which you can quote in your letter!

[Piercy75]

Are they liable to to tell me that over the phone though??? I only have a few days to reply to Lowell....

[unclebulgaria67]

Are they liable to to tell me that over the phone though??? I only have a few days to reply to Lowell....

 

Why not just keep this simple. There is no hurry as there is no imminent action that is being taken. You have just received a letter with some dubious information for which Red/Lowell probably are not suren about themselves.

 

Choices. Send Lowell CCA request letter with a sentence that you believe that their letter did not accurately state the position in regard the account and that you believe the statute of limitation act 1980 does apply; and then make enquires with Barclaycard.

 

Or just send Lowell a letter stating that you believe their letter was factually incorrect and that you will be making enquiries with BC directly. Then respond to Lowell when you have the facts. Once you have the information from BC then you can use this for any future DCA that comes out of the wordwork.

 

Or don't bother making any contact with Lowell, until you have the information from BC.

[FORMISTER]

Typical DCA's try and make you think that you have to do everything in a hurry. You are entitled by law to have all the facts and information and you are entitled to the time to do it in. Don't let them fluster you into making mistakes, there are people on your thread who have been through all this and advised many others time and time again, just let their experience guide you through the process

[DonkeyB]

Are they liable to to tell me that over the phone though??? I only have a few days to reply to Lowell....

 

There’s a good chance they will be able to tell you, as long as you ask nicely! Don’t wade in with demands or accusations about Lowell’s behaviour – it’s little to do with the person you’ll speak to first of all. If they don’t have any of the info on the system, it may indicate it’s well over six years old.

 

If they refuse, then a subject access request is the way forward.

 

You’ll need your card account number and the address you were living at when the card was last active.

 

Call and try this first.

[FORMISTER]

When I rang BC they were reasonably helpfull, they told me who and when the debt was sold to etc. It will depend if it's on their screen or stored.

[teaboy2]

DonkeyB, sincere apologies, name removed. Ok, I believe Im getting a bit flustered. Any chance you can point me in the direction of a template which would include my counter argument that reads:

 

You state in your later dated 13th January 2011 that account: xxxxxxx is not legally unenforceable under the Limitation Act 1980 on the basis that a default notice was served on the 13th October 2005. Again this is another spurious claim and ask you provide proof of such information as defined under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I wouldn't be wasting my time fighting Red/Lowell if I knew I was wrong about all this, really appreciate your help everyone, sorry if Im getting wound up....

 

Piercy, I would suggest removing the account number from the post (and in any other post's it appears) i have quoted above and replace them with xxxxx like i have in the above quote.

 

Listen to what DB tell's and follow his advice to the word for word and you'll be fine.

[Piercy75]

Hi teaboy 2, yeah Ive removed account number etc... Silly me getting all flustered. Anyway I've made move and got the template for SAR to Barclaycard. £10 postal order and also a very basic request to Red/Lowell ((or whatever they like to call themselves, sounds like a tax dodge! ... Or maybe even a debt dodge!!! )) with a request for a CCA etc. I cut out all the rhetoric and asked 'politely'.